Huawei to set up $500m plant in India

[Rage]

hehe, in one decade, "made in China" will climb along value chain and sweep "made in west countries" off high ends products such as cars,ships and aircrafts.

In one decade, Boeing and Airbus will bankrupt like GM today and be be auctioned due to the competition from Chinese colleague.

You're quite the optimist.

Watch out for the decades after that!

 

[neo29]

hehe, in one decade, "made in China" will climb along value chain and sweep "made in west countries" off high ends products such as cars,ships and aircrafts.

In one decade, Boeing and Airbus will bankrupt like GM today and be be auctioned due to the competition from Chinese colleague.

Your cars are really bad and do not have export market. The world buys cars from US,Japan and SK. Your fighters are just copies of other fighters, and not to mention cheap and inferior.

Are you day dreaming ???? Or you being Over Patriotic ???

 

[Oracle]

We actually have deviated from the topic. Huawei investing $500 million and sharing source code with the Home Ministry is great. This satisfies our primary concern of malicious code in Chinese products, used to snoop on networks, and also creates employment for Indians. This is not a product comparison thread mates!!!

 

[nimo_cn]

You are cribbing about GOI forced them to share source code with us . Do you remember how China forced Microsoft to share its source code and due to this we have many cracked or modified versions of Windows available in market now. At least GoI is responsible and will not leak those codes unlike China.

I am not very familiar with the case of MS sharing source code with Chinese authority. As far as i know, MS did not just disclosed its source code to China but also to Russia. And the sharing is very limited, people were only allowed to review the source code in place designated by MS, nothing else. They were not allowed to compile the source code to rebuild the operating system, since there were tens of millions lines of source code, it was even not possible to be sure MS was sharing the real source code. So the sharing was more symbolic for MS to show that they were willing to cooperate and their sofware was safe. So do not try to insinuate that Chinese government had leaked MS's source code, because it is technically impossible.

The case with Huawei and ZTE is very weird, because India is doing this only to Chinese companies.

The new regulation issued by Indian government to address their security concerns, requires all telecom equipment suppliers to share their source code. Until now, only Huawei complied with that regulation and no western companies gave a damn about the regulation, they are all condemning that regulation.

Ironically, all western telecom vendors are still getting contracts from Indian companies despite they failed to respect that new regulation which was issued on the ground of national security and should be obeyed by all companies. It seems that Indian government actually doesn't take national security that seriously.

So i am wondering maybe national security is just a pretext quoted by Indian government to acquire technology from Chinese companies.

Well, that is just a guess, other Indian members do not haste to jump on me. Let us wait and see what Indian government is gonna do with those western companies who refuse to accept the new regulation, if Indian government is reluctant to force them to abide by the same regulation and still permits them to do business in India, then it is more than a guess.

 

[SHASH2K2]

The case with Huawei and ZTE is very weird, because India is doing this only to Chinese companies.

None of foreign companies like Nokia Siemens and Alcatel-lucent are owned by their respective military or at least rumored to be owned by them. so GOI was very right in asking Chinese companies to declare their ownership. Regarding forcing Huawei and ZTE to share source code entire world knows Chinese quality when in comes to spying . We should definitely make sure that our systems are secure and are not under threat from Chinese military or inteligence. I am sure you are aware how a single Trojan can kill/ bring down entire communication network. Given kind of attitudes china has shown towards India we should do more than this to secure our country.

So i am wondering maybe national security is just a pretext quoted by Indian government to acquire technology from Chinese companies.

Huawei ot ZTE are not working on rocket science that we can gain anything for it.

 

[Energon]

This thread reinforces why hypernationalism is bad for economics. Chinese companies open up operations in India because of the (almost unparalleled) market. Indian companies invite vendors who offer competitive prices. If Huawei were to get caught planting bugs they would incur losses in the hundreds of millions if not billions; there is hardly any incentive. Unlike the populist public sector which manages to consistently f**k up big business deals with foreign vendors for short term political gains (usually at the expense of the people) the private sector is more balanced. They are more inclined to be guided by pragmatism and market forces where there will be some sort of an accommodation to ensure everyone is more or less happy. If that means sharing code for the sake of security (a very valid concern) then yes, so be it.

I'm always amused by how everyone here purports this "us" vs "them" posture. This is nonsense since none of you actually embody either India or China, and in all probably there is no such thing in the first place.

Lighten up and enjoy the benefits of open market prosperity.

 

[nimo_cn]

None of foreign companies like Nokia Siemens and Alcatel-lucent are owned by their respective military or at least rumored to be owned by them.

Rumored to be owned by Chinese military?
LOL, that is a good one!

So it is true that only Chinese companies are treated like this and the reason is simply because they are Chinese company. I think such action can be qualified as discrimination.

Considering Huawei is not public listed, let's simplify the discussion by putting aside Huawei.
ZTE is a public listed company, why is ZTE also in the banning list?

so GOI was very right in asking Chinese companies to declare their ownership.

ZTE is a public listed company, the information about its ownership is available.

Huawei has communicated with GoI and provided information about its ownership, GoI still refuses to grand Huawei the permission of getting contract from Indian companies.

All the signs indicate GoI does not give a damn about the ownership of Chinese companies, all it wants is the source code.

Regarding forcing Huawei and ZTE to share source code entire world knows Chinese quality when in comes to spying . We should definitely make sure that our systems are secure and are not under threat from Chinese military or inteligence. I am sure you are aware how a single Trojan can kill/ bring down entire communication network. Given kind of attitudes china has shown towards India we should do more than this to secure our country.

Give me a break, buddy!

India is not the only country that is using Chinese telecom equipments. Forty-five of the fifty top global operators are using Chinese telecom equipments, but India is the only one that is banning Chinese company by quoting national security.

Huawei and ZTE have been selling equipments in India for almost ten years, why the hell is India beginning to take action so late? And more importantly, GoI can't provide anything to prove that Chinese telecom equipments are compromising it's national security.

And there is another way to address GoI's concern over national security, which is to hire a third-party organization to test all the Chinese equipments. Huawei and ZTE have appealled to GoI to do a public test on their equipments, but were tured down. It is clear that GoI is unwilling to do such test, because there is no malicious software at all, all of these are just excuses quoted by GoI to force Chinese companies to share the source code.

SHASH2K2, i remember you have said you know someone who worked in Huawei. I suggest you consult with him if it is technically possible for Huawei or ZTE to implant malicious software in their equipments without being detected. And you can also ask him if it is acceptable for a telecom manufacturer to disclose the source code of its IOS( internet operating system) to a third party.

Huawei ot ZTE are not working on rocket science that we can gain anything for it.

You are right about what Huawei or ZTE is doing.

No, they are not working on rocket science, they are just working on telecom science which concerns me more because India has its own rocket technology but no telecom technology.

 

[tony4562]

reliability of prc products - depends - low end should be ok - higher end just forget it

but really im more concerned about which prc personnel are gonna be staff at huawei and what theyre gonna do in their " spare time " or should i say " spy time " ??

will they be learning from indian brain how to improve their r&d - will they be monitoring the indian educational system from within ?

basically the concern is their activities beyond the company even done within the confines of the company builldings ....and the amount of capital invested shouldnt be allowed to impree anyone in india - cos dragon will do ANYTHING to further their aims including splure tons of money - not a problem cos they think long term and BIG dividends

Huawei is a hardware company, don't think india has much to teach China here. BTW, Huawei is the No.1 company in world wide patent filing, so they don't exactly need the mythical indian super IQ to survive.

 

[SHASH2K2]

Considering Huawei is not public listed, let's simplify the discussion by putting aside Huawei.

Ok then. Who is owner of huawei?

SHASH2K2, i remember you have said you know someone who worked in Huawei. I suggest you consult with him if it is technically possible for Huawei or ZTE to implant malicious software in their equipments without being detected. And you can also ask him if it is acceptable for a telecom manufacturer to disclose the source code of its IOS( internet operating system) to a third party.

If you know about software development then its developed in small pieces and then they are merged together to make a complete package.Each person works on a small module and has very little to do with what other person is doing. Its very easy to insert a malicious code if someone want to so . If you donot know how softwares are developed then donot get into this.

You are right about what Huawei or ZTE is doing.

You should know that telecom field involves both software and hardware. Can China challenge India In that field?

 

[nimo_cn]

Ok then. Who is owner of huawei?

well, Huawei is owned by the employees of this company.Ren Zhengfei, though the founder of Huawei, owns only 1.42% share of Huawei. The other 98.58% is owned by Huawei employees, most of whom are senior managers or engineers. Huawei has disclosed its owner information in its 2009 annals.

Here is a report with regard to this. It is written in Chinese, but you can read it with the assitance of Google translator if you are interested.
This is the link.
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If you know about software development then its developed in small pieces and then they are merged together to make a complete package.Each person works on a small module and has very little to do with what other person is doing. Its very easy to insert a malicious code if someone want to so . If you donot know how softwares are developed then donot get into this.

Sounds like you are a computer major. But you need to read my post again, i was not saying inserting malicious code is not possible. Of course, it is possible, as long as you have that intention and you are a programmer, you can do that.

But implanting malicious code into a network OS(operating system) (it is a more accurate term than internet operating system) is one thing, making sure that can't be detected is quite another. I am telling you if Huawei or ZTE or any other telecom vendor has ever done that, it will get caught. This is not about software development, it is more about how the equipment works. That is why i suggest you consult with your friend in the first place, who may have professional knowledge about telecom equipments such as Router, Switch.

You should know that telecom field involves both software and hardware. Can China challenge India In that field?

Well, it does involve both software and hardware. But the software being involved here is not the same in India.

Huawei, as well as other telecom vendors, is essentially telecom manufacturer, which means its main job is to manufacture equipments, not to develop software. Most softwares developed by Huawei is to support its equipments, to make its equipments functional. Network OS is the most important one, each telecom vendor has its own network OS to run on its own equipments, because each has its own hardware architecture. For example, Ciscos's network OS is IOS, Huawei's network OS is VRP. The network OS, combined with the hardware, determines the performance of the telecom equipment.

The implementation of a network OS is closely connected with the architecture of the hardware. Therefore, if you can not design and manufacture the hardware, you can not develop a network OS. Unfortunately, by far India lacks that ability.

Something off topic.
Many people here believe India has a fabulous IT industry, especailly good at software.
Here is some something i know about that myth.I am not going to talk about hardware because India has not been very impressive in this field. I am going to say something about the software.

On the surface, the software industry in India is very prosperous, India has some world famous software companies(Tata Consultancy Services, Infosys). But beneath that, people should realize the software industry in India is just as low-end as some manufacturing industry in China. What India is really good at is software outsourcing, which means in most cases, western companies do the analysis and design, and Indian companies do the programming.

 

[tarunraju]

It's a coverup. Basically Huawei wants to circumvent GoI's present and future Chinese telecom equipment embargo (or the telecom company lobby in India is fueling such a move) by setting up a "plant" here. Equipment sold to India will carry the "Made in India" banner, but most of would be actually Made in China and imported as "raw material", simply assembled here. So if Huawei has any designs against India, it can still carry them out.

 

[SHASH2K2]

It's a coverup. Basically Huawei wants to circumvent GoI's present and future Chinese telecom equipment embargo (or the telecom company lobby in India is fueling such a move) by setting up a "plant" here. Equipment sold to India will carry the "Made in India" banner, but most of would be actually Made in China and imported as "raw material", simply assembled here. So if Huawei has any designs against India, it can still carry them out.

I completely agree with you . All major components will be imported from China and will be assembled. Chances are still very bright that they may implant malwares in those components or will have some options like Trojans where in they can bring down entire network. Not sure if security agencies can check those components .

 

[cobra commando]

Huawei can set up unit in India, conditions apply

 

[ARUN R]

the only Chinese product I use is a modem from ZTE,and i am not that happy with its perfomance

What about your gadgets like mobile phones, laptops,..? Most of them are Made in China ,right.

 

[sorcerer]

I completely agree with you . All major components will be imported from China and will be assembled. Chances are still very bright that they may implant malwares in those components or will have some options like Trojans where in they can bring down entire network. Not sure if security agencies can check those components .

Absolutely..
Its a move by Huawei to circumvent any future ban on Chinese telecom equipments. The GoI has made audits mandatory.

Government agencies estimate that about 60 per cent of telecom equipment installed in India is of Chinese origin. Given the dangers such as embedded malware and bugs in Chinese equipment, India will be setting up testing facilities to screen all such telecom apparatus.

The pact with the foreign company can be terminated after proper notice in case the company is found to be indulging in money laundering, having links with foreign intelligence agencies or terror groups.

Just a few digs from the internet on Huawei.

U.S. Suspicions of China's Huawei Based Partly on NSA's Own Spy Tricks

Fears of Chinese espionage based on "back doors" built into computer hardware have prompted the U.S. government to block China's technology giant Huawei from doing business on U.S. shores. Such suspicions may come in large part from the knowledge that U.S. spies have already learned how to install similar "back doors" in computer hardware and software.

The NSA allegedly launched an operation code-named "Shotgiant" in 2007 aimed at uncovering any possible ties between Huawei—a company that likes to boast of how its routers and switches connect a third of the world's population—and China's military, known as the People's Liberation Army, according to the New York Times and Der Spiegel. Operation Shotgiant also aimed to compromise and exploit Huawei's technology so that the NSA could infiltrate the computer networks of Huawei customers in "high-priority target" countries such as Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Kenya, and Cuba.

1. The company's founder Ren Zhengfei was an engineer in the PLA prior to forming his company.
2. The company's chairwoman Sun Yafang worked for the Ministry of State Security and while there helped arrange loans for Huawei before joining the company as an employee.
3. The government of China is Huawei's biggest customer; specifically the State-owned telecommunications services.
4. Huawei equipment is used to intercept communications in China for state-mandated monitoring.
   
   http://jeffreycarr.blogspot.in/2011/10/here-are-facts-about-huawei-and-chinese.html

Analysis: Who really owns Huawei?


Unravelling the structure of the world's fastest growing networking vendor.

While no direct ties between Huawei and the Chinese military and Communist Party have ever been established beyond CEO Ren Zhengfei's past ties to both, the fast-growing telco supplier's ownership structure is still fascinating, strange and tricky for Western observers to understand.

Huawei was founded in 1988 but remains a private company to this day, despite revenues of A$26.8 billion last year and a compound annual growth rate of 33 percent.

Huawei staff are evasive when asked why the company hasn't listed.

"We will choose the most suitable model for Huawei at varied developmental stages," a company spokesman told iTnews.

One of China's richest men - with an estimated net worth of US$450 million - CEO Ren Zhengfei is content with a mere 1.42 percent of shares in Huawei.

The rest - some 98.56 per cent - is owned by employees, according to the company.

However, this arrangement is not as straightforward as it may sound. The employee shareholding scheme is implemented through the Union of Shenzhen Huawei Investment Holdings Co Ltd.

To further complicate matters, Huawei Technologies Co Ltd itself is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Shenzhen Huawei Investment & Holding Co Ltd.

According to a company spokesman, Huawei Holding is solely owned by employees of Huawei, without any third parties (including government bodies) holding any of its shares.

In other words, Huawei employees own both the company they work for, and the company that owns Huawei itself.

This convoluted ownership by the employees is controlled by the company's management.

Employees cannot buy shares, but are instead allocated shares annually on the basis of work performance, duties and capabilities for the position and on future development potential.

Huawei would not disclose how many shares any single employee can own. Dividends, however, are paid to employees, to complement Huawei's incentive scheme that includes performance bonuses and annual salary reviews.

The shares themselves are known by the Huawei internal term "Virtual Restricted Shares", but according the company spokesman, this is "just a technical name" for otherwise "normal" shares.

Only Chinese employees are allocated shares in Huawei.

"Huawei is headquartered in China and due to prevailing Chinese legal issues, overseas employees cannot, unfortunately, own shares," the spokesman said.

Presently, Huawei says that out of some 95,000 employees, 61,457 hold shares in the company.

Employees allocated shares have to return these when they leave Huawei's employ, according to the spokesman. The shares are bought back by the company at their current value, the company spokesman said, but he wasn't prepared to reveal how much each share is valued at currently.

"The stock ownership plan will help us attract and retain talent, and keeps employee benefits in line with company performance," the spokesman said.

The Union of the Shenzhen Huawei Investment and Holding Company is not a trade union, but a shareholders' one, according to the spokesman, and it appears to form the cornerstone of Huawei corporate governance.

This union "is the highest authority of the company".

A "small committee" of 33 union members are elected by other shareholders employed by Huawei to make decisions.

In turn, the committee elects nine candidates to the Huawei board that is appointed at the general annual shareholder meeting.

Huawei won't disclose who runs the Union of SHIH or who sits on the committee, but says it would consider establishing an independent board of directors "when the condition is permitting".

Judging from the present list of board members, they are highly ranked executives rather than shop floor employees. Apart from CEO Ren and chairwoman Sun Yafang, the other board members currently include:

• Ms Ji Ping, Vice President
• Mr Guo Ping, Executive Vice President
• Mr Xu Wen Wei, Senior Vice President
• Mr Hu Hou Kun, president of Global Strategy and Marketing
• Mr Fei Min, President of Products and Solutions
• Mr Hong Tian Feng, President of Operation and Delivery
• Mr Xu Zhi Jun, Chief Marketing Officer

Huawei's ownership arrangements are "completely opaque" says David M Webb, an independent commentator on corporate and economic governance, based in Hong Kong.

"My guess is that the candidates for election are tightly controlled - it's not like an employee can just run for election with the support of his colleagues."

Webb said it is not clear there is any capital gains earned when an employee leaves Huawei.

He suspects that the shares are simply a profit-sharing mechanism. Shares in the bonus pool or "dividends" are allocated and withdrawn at management discretion, and probably do not carry any equity value, he said.

According to Webb, the "employee-owned" structure appears to be an attempt at distancing Huawei from its PLA (People's Liberation Army) roots.

"Huawei does business in a sensitive sector because its equipment is at the heart of telecommunications networks," Webb said.

"It is easy for opponents to suggest that Huawei, the PLA, or the Chinese government might be able to intercept communications or remotely cripple networks, regardless of it being true or not," says Webb.

"Unless and until Huawei becomes a stand-alone widely held listed company with employees free to trade their shares and without a controlling shareholder, these suspicions and allegations will likely continue," he said.


Read more: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/175946,analysis-who-really-owns-huawei.aspx#ixzz3fsPX9dNt