How to fight terror against India?

Discussion in 'Internal Security' started by Yusuf, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Excellent.

    However I foresee some changes. When I was a school boy, these people used to support Pakistan in each and every indian Pakistan match. Now the scenario has changed. However I agree with you. Wherever there is Islam, potential danger always loom around you.

    One policy I found useful is that you must make a law to restrict them with one child. Second child can only be done with government approval. We must ban all madrasas and make them study in government school compulsorily. We must take away their voting right so no party can play vote bank politics. We should take away all the land property of Waquf board and auction them to generate money and educate them.

    However, i would say that Indian Muslims are least radicalized. Here they deserve the credit and we should not Hesitate to give them the credit they deserve.
     
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  2. Screambowl

    Screambowl Ghanta Senior Member? Senior Member

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    you tried to ban beef what we saw in the last few months due to opposition. If we ban madrassa, do you realize what will happen? I am not saying that idea is bad, but it has repercussions. Big ones.

    I have been always in favor of information war and brain drain of Muslims like americans have done but we can do it much better.
     
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  3. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    See, all this happens because we are weak. If we become strong anything is possible including the ban on madrasa. Earlier people used to scare of even taking the name of ban on cow slaughter. We become little strong and now Muzzies themselves support the ban no cow slaughter. We need to become more stronger so that Muzzies support common civil code and ban on Madrasas.
     
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  4. Screambowl

    Screambowl Ghanta Senior Member? Senior Member

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    strong yes, but then when to call for it. Because all these proposals should be made when the time is right. Let the Ram Mandir issue be concluded and only after that we can proceed. That will create a mandate by people and it will easier to call for such proposals.
     
  5. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Agree. But once again we are not strong. We must unitedly tell all political parties that if you do not support Ram temple, do not come and ask us for vote. Bloody we are 83% (Jain Shikhas and other indian religions included). Respect our feeling else we shall make you a big Zero. Other thing we need to do is to divide Muzzies and not let them unite. It is a high time to break Muzzies vote bank and build a strong united Hindu vote bank. It is very much necessary for the nation and for Muzzies themselves.
     
  6. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Making Muslims feel persecuted/singled out will only marginalise them and serve to be counter productive. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd point of these plans should be to make every Indian- regardless of relgion, caste,creed or any such BS feel 100% part of India and treated as an equal. THis is what the Indian constitution states.

    Indian Muslims should be applauded as they have, on the whole, rejected these extremists- far more than their ummah in the rest of the world. What is remakrable is that many ISIS wannabes from India have been turned in by their own community/family to the police, in the West this is the total reverse- these communities are so insular and isolated that they actively protect the known ISIS locals. So India needs to respect that.

    It is these external influences that need to be combated in every possible way and thus cyber seucrity needs to be top notch, that is how these idiots are recruited and radicalised and attacks planned.

    Again, the solution is largely economic and social justice/inclusion and India is working on this but it should not loose sight of this objective.

    Lastly, the response to such threats needs to be robust, once these losers have been "turned" the hammer of justice needs to be swift and come down on them like a ton of bricks as well as anti-terror forces being ready 24/7 to respond to a Paris or Brussels. These animals want to slaughter, everything possible must be done to lessen the potential damage they can inflict.
     
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  7. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Awesome.

    We need to work on two pronged strategy where we encourage nationalist forces and crush fifth columnist. We must remember that many Muslims believe that Allah have created them to rule. We must work to defeat their motive. We must encourage nationalist Muslims and one like Tarek fatah who raises their voice against the ill mentality of Muslims. We must encourage those muslims who speak against the faulty mentality of Owasi like Muslim. We must strengthen law to bring these fifth columnist to justice where the existing laws are weak.
     
  8. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    I especially agree with this.

    Although I don't agree with this :

    The peaceful Indian muslim myth is a fairytale that has been perpetuated by elitist Hindu liberals. This is not based in fact. Look at the nature of political Islam from 1920 to 2016 and you will find that nowhere has it been more treacherous and lethal than the Indian sub-continent. There are Islamic political movements in the middle east too, there was the Baath party in Iraq, Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and various other groups but none of them led to the treacherous partition of a nation the way it did in India. The amount of brutality that we faced was also manifold. In fact, claiming that muslims of the subcontinent are peaceful is a Hindu's way to hide the shameful past of being pounded by muslims. The worst assumption one could make is that Indian muslims are different from Pakistani muslims. Why so? do they follow different book? obviously not. Go to any foreign nation and observe that the moment a muslim from the subcontinent puts his foot on a foreign land, he immediately severs his cultural roots and gets connected to the global Islamic political movements there. Just to give you a small example, there are many Change.org petitions about protecting Indian interests, how many Indian muslims do you see participating in those? how many NRI muslims do you see walking in rallies on the streets of US, UK to speak in favor of India? NONE! the moment they go there, they immediately connect their roots with the Ummah and subsequently you will find many Indian muslims walking in rallies for Palestine, Lebanon, Kashmir, these are all anti-west, anti-Israel, anti-India (basically anti-kaffir) coalitions.

    The Ummah mentality of the muslims of the subcontinent has not gone away, in fact, it has only strengthened with the onset of the internet and other communication channels. Wherever there are muslims, there is always a problem. Don't give more credit to someone just because they happened to be born in a certain geographical part of the world. They themselves don't give a shit about this geography, because they believe that international borders are artificial barriers which stop muslims from linking to form a united Ummah. I am against racism because one doesn't choose the race one is born in, so it is incorrect to cast aspersions however the same is not true of ideologies because ideologies are political opinions which one can choose to renounce or adopt. Islam is not a race, it is an ideology and unless you are making a claim that Indian muslims have a different Quran than other muslims, which they obviously don't, your argument holds no water.

    An ideology at whose core lies antagonism against non-believers, cannot be an inclusive one, no matter how much PR spin you try to give it. A lot of those who claim Indian muslims to be more peaceful than the rest of the world are sub-consciously linking it with Sufism. Even Akbar who was under the influence of Sufi saints, killed 6 lakh Hindus. In fact, all the muslim rulers who committed atrocities on Hindus had Sufis in their cabinet. And still some people think that Sufism is the cause of peace. Please read this :

    http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...error-against-india.24798/page-9#post-1147742

    Tagging @abingdonboy for relevance because I disagree with his contention that economic progress will lead to less radicalization, or by corollary implying that poverty leads to terrorism. This has been categorically proved to be false. A lot of people involved in Jihadi activities are upper middle class, educated people. Take a look at the Indian boys who went to fight for ISIS. They were working in MNCs with a salary of 12 lakh/per annum, which is more than what an average Indian earns. An average ISIS fighter earns a salary of 800$ a month. If money was the motivating factor to become a terrorist, I am sure many poor people would have agreed to join these groups for even 80$ a month given that 60% of the world lives in poverty. Why didn't all those poor people join them? Surely they would have earned a lot of money had they been opportunists. That's because people with a sane moral compass stay away from such ideologies even in the face of abject poverty. Please call the terrorists out for what they are, they are not economic opportunists, they are political dissidents.

    Another example is Osama, who was a billionaire! that didn't stop all these people from taking to extremism. Extremism is a political ideology, an idea which transcends social and economic class barriers. For that matter, Shah Rukh and Amir Khan have no shortage of money, but they still indulge in jihadi propaganda, do they not? how much money do you think the government needs to give them to stop propagating those ideas? how much money would Hafiz Saeed take so that he magically stops being a terrorist?

    Money is orthogonal to the issue of terrorism, it's a facilitator but not the driving force. The problem of ideological extremism isn't going to go away by just throwing money at it. It's like throwing food at a wolf and expecting him to magically start behaving like a domesticated dog. He will eat the food but still continue to remain a wolf and your life is still under threat because you haven't solved the core problem. The core problem is that unlike other fascist ideologies like Nazism and other forms of imperialism, Islam never underwent any reform because no one ever dared tell them that. Germans today acknowledge Nazism was evil because they have been told by their history books about the horrors that it perpetuated. Japanese frown on Japanese imperial atrocities because they have been told about their follies by their history books. Islam, has never been told that the atrocities they perpetuated were wrong, so instead of undergoing reform, they continue to live in their own merry world assuming it to be 'glory'. Whenever there is an attempt by anyone to say it as it is, there are liberals who come up with fancy theories like Islamophobia to prevent the enlightenment of muslim masses. What can be more sad that even a well read, intelligent person like you feels that telling this truth amounts to 'making muslims feel persecuted/singled out'. Well, if a person holds wrong ideas he needs to be confronted one day or the other. Would you also say that arresting rapists is incorrect because it amounts to singling them out? As a civilized society there is a red line that no one is allowed to cross. Gloating over the massacre of kaffirs is not a civilized idea to espouse, and people need to confront those who do it, instead of finding excuses.

    Unless Indian history text books tell their students about the atrocities perpetuated by the muslims on Hindus, they will continue to look at that atrocious period as their 'glorious past' and the more they romanticize it, the more difficult they will find to come to terms with the contemporary realities. It is THIS dissonance which leads to terrorism.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
  9. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    See the issue need to be analyzed in 3 parts. 1 Religious part and 2) Genetic part 3) Culture of society they live in

    So far religion is concern , Indian Muslim is same as other Muslim but gene wise they are different. + They live in a highly civilized society which will prevent them to be extremely radicalized.
    The Islam you are talking had came from a highly uncivilized society with uncivilized religion and uncivilized genes.

    So far as treacherous partition is concern, it was our weakness. Iraq had a dictatorship and they can kill the people for any anti national activity. We have that weakness. We are unable to be as ruthless as they are. As I have repeatedly said that it is our weakness. Why can't we ban MQM and IML like parties. Why can't we confiscate Waqf board land and properties. Why can't we make compulsory chanting vande matram and why can't we deal strictly with BD saperetists? Why can't we implement 2 child policy very strictly on Muslims.
    These are very non violent measures but we do not have guts. We are not united like Muslims. First of all we need to implement a strong Hindu vote bank and everything will follow their after.
     
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  10. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    The killing of Hindus by muslim invaders was not a glorious act, those who romanticize it are not civilized people.

    My entry to the question of 'How to fight terrorism against India?' is education, and not just technical education but political education of the masses and not just school education but the idea should be propagated on all information channels until it becomes common parlance. The reason muslims take to terrorism is that they feel that they lived a glorious past where they could kill Hindus in contract to the lackluster life that they are living now where they have to abide by rules of the land instead of being rulers. Unless there is a concerted effort to challenge and defeat this idea, we will always face an existential threat from muslims. Admission of muslim atrocities should become the mainstream quintessential Indian thought. There are so many museums in Germany and Japan depicting the attrocities committed by their ancestors on innocent people. These serve the purpose of raising the level of public consciousness. Every year Hollywood comes out with half a dozen movies showing how bad the holocaust was. This is the template that we should follow. There should be museums depicting the atrocities instead of making Bollywood movies and books that eulogize Akbar and Tipu Sultan.

    The very fact that Hindus aren't allowed to claim Ram Mandir is a testimony to the fact that Indian muslims don't adhere to a more evolved and tolerant form of Islam as @HariPrasad-1 sir claims. The thought process is the same as that of the invaders. Ram Mandir issue is not a real estate dispute and cannot be looked at from that angle. It's a much deeper issue of constitutional violation of the religious rights of Hindus in an allegedly secular nation which allegedly guarantees religious freedom. Ram Janmabhoomi is to Hindus what Mecca is to muslims, there can be no negotiation on this. The fact that we are stuck in negotiations reflects that Indian muslims, have in fact NOT given up their ideological terrorism which stems from their need to dominate and persecute Hindus wherever they can. Reconciliation is a two way street where both parties agree to walk one step each and meet in the middle. If a case is being made that Indian muslims are more reconciliatory in nature, where is the evidence?

    That's just the execution part of it, what we are discussing here is the 'idea' part of it. Should we even refrain from discussing ideas and potential solutions just because we aren't organized yet? Ideas come first, organization follows ideas. Otherwise what are you going to organize people for? Even the idea of Pakistan cropped up in 1920, THEN people organized themselves around that idea to achieve their goals. You are putting the cart before the cart and claiming that Hindus should organize first and then we can implement ideas. Why would anyone organize if you don't give them an idea to rally around?

    I hope you realize, @HariPrasad-1 sir, that being ruthless and killing people is not what I am recommending. Simply give us closure. I have only one demand : include lessons of anti-Hindu atrocities in history books so that both Hindus and muslims become aware of it and have a sense of national context instead of building their own personal victimhood narratives. It is a great disservice to our civilization that an invader who imposed atrocities on us is crying foul and gets mainstream endorsement from all quarters of civil society because NONE of us have been told of the muslim atrocities in our history books. They claim that the Babri incident was wrong, but don't want to concede that their ancestors captured and destroyed our temple. This intellectual subversion is unacceptable. If we want to have a frank discussion, we have to put everything on the table so that everyone knows each other's history and empathizes with the other before pointing fingers.

    The more rights of Hindus the state curtails, the more Hindu anger it will fuel, the eruption of which leads to incidents like Babri, which leads to radicalization and polarization on both sides. The constitution mentions secularism, it's about time Hindus tasted it too. We have only been smelling it from afar while muslims relished the entire cake of secularism.

    Long story short : India needs to take concrete steps to trash the Hindu narrative and muslim narrative and adopt a common and reconciliatory national narrative which is acceptable to both parties, only then can people find closure and peace otherwise these issues will keep flaring up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
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  11. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    We must make a law that who so ever glorifies any invader shall be disqualify for vote and fight election for 10 years.
     
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  12. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    Actually, I didn't mean to imply that by becoming wealthy that radicalisation will be eliminated. I meant that all sections of India should be brought into the mainstream and economically intergrated so that no section feels marginalised or to be "the other".

    There are two elements to radicalisation, as you have pointed out a lot of radicals are not poverty stricken and this is repeated all over the world- the "underwear bomber" from Nigeria had been to very good universities, many of the 9/11 hijackers had degrees and this is quite similar for a lot of jihadis in the West. This is where I say one needs to target the cyber domain where they are being recruited and radicalised. BUT, poverty IS a driving factor of other terrorists particuarly in Afghansitan and Pakistan- perhaps not really for India but one should still not provide any such breeding ground.

    I am simply saying this as it is my wish to see every single Indian given the same oppurtunities and to all be part of the Indian fabric as is enshrined in the Indian constitution. IMO this will drmatically reduce the threat of such activities in India and then you just have to target those jihadis who are being radicalsied for other reasons (a more recent phenomena).

    Again, credit where credit is due- India's 200+ million Muslims are , on the whole, arguably the best Muslims you will find anywhere on the planet and they should be celebrated for this.
     
  13. Navnit Kundu

    Navnit Kundu Pika Hu Akbarrr!! Senior Member

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    Yup, I understood that the first time over before going ahead to disagree with you.

    I have not formed my opinion by extrapolating the acts of a few terrorists, if that is what you are insinuating. My reading of the muslim community has nothing to do with terrorism, I am speaking of a mainstream pattern of political thought among muslims in India.

    What I'm basically trying to say is that the deeper you go into the rabbit hole of extremist nexus, one day you will ultimately be faced with the master who is pulling the puppet strings of these extremists and you will find that it is mainstream Islam, not a fringe, not a sect, not a twisted individual, but the mainstream of Islam which is responsible for these things. You can draw artificial lines to separate them into moderates and extremists virtually speaking, but the crux of the problem is that until you are willing to admit that an ideology which, at its core, preaches that 'everyone who disagrees with us is to be treated as an enemy combatant', the problem will never be solved.

    Like the Afghan intel chief Amarullah Saleh once said "you will keep killing the guys in the outer circle for years and patting yourself on the back but the problem wont be solved until you have the resolve to confront the guys in the inner circle who are running the show". He was taunting the US for killing low level commanders in Afghanistan but not confronting Saudi Arabia. You are doing the same by drawing a dichotomy between gun wielding terrorists and non-gun wielding 'peaceful chaps'. Terrorism is not just about weapons, there is such a thing as ideological terrorism, which you are completely overlooking when you give a clean chit to 200 million people without looking at their collective political thought process as a group (not talking about individual acts of terror or crime, but the mainstream thought process)

    You keep saying that without quantifying your claim. What ordinary Indians want is not something extraordinary. They simply want closure similar to the one that Germans, Japanese got when they admitted their mistakes. You can sing a thousand songs in the praise of moderate Indian muslims, but the proof of the pudding is in eating it.

    The very fact that Hindus aren't allowed to claim Ram Mandir is a testimony to the fact that Indian muslims don't adhere to a more evolved and tolerant form of Islam. The thought process is the same as that of the invaders. Ram Mandir issue is not a real estate dispute and cannot be looked at from that angle. It's a much deeper issue of constitutional violation of the religious rights of Hindus in an allegedly secular nation which allegedly guarantees religious freedom. Ram Janmabhoomi is to Hindus what Mecca is to muslims, there can be no negotiation on this. The fact that we are stuck in negotiations reflects that Indian muslims, have in fact NOT given up their ideological terrorism which stems from their need to dominate and persecute Hindus wherever they can. Reconciliation is a two way street where both parties agree to walk one step each and meet in the middle. If a case is being made that Indian muslims are more reconciliatory in nature, where is the evidence?

    Have you seen any religious debate on any Indian channel? if you start speaking sense, the muslims simply wont let you speak. For them, "it's my way or the high way". If this amounts to 'better than other muslims' then I shudder to think what kind of muslims you have met. See this interview, if you still want to give credit where it is undue, well, I'm at loss for words, see this and decide (mind you, this is not a fringe muslim, you can check his credentials). The entire conversation is overflowing with subterfuge (Taquiya) and latent treachery, anyone with a little emotional quotient would understand it :



    Celebrating that they are better than the rest of their ilk is a relative/subjective benchmark. From time to time we must ask ourselves whether this 'relatively good' is 'good enough'. A woman journalist in Mumbai was hounded into exile by the same peaceful muslims for reposting the Charlie Hebdo cartoon of, you know who, while reporting about it. Now, this act might be committed by a group of people (5000 people) but the thought process is not an outlier. Same goes for the thousands (15,000 people) who thronged the funeral of their 'martyr' A̶P̶J̶ ̶A̶b̶d̶u̶l̶ ̶K̶a̶l̶a̶m̶ Yakoob Memon. There are other stories as well, but there is no point narrating them here, you probably get the gist of what I am trying to say.

    Plus there are people like these, would you say they are better than the rest as well? (Not a sarcastic question). Given that you have merrily given a clean chit to such a vile community with no hesitation, I'd like to know if you would extend the same to the other spectrum of Abrahamics like the one below?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2016
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  14. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Navneet ji you have an excellent insight in the mizzies's mentality and awesome skill of expressing the same. Your posts are thought provoking and exhibits some horrible truth which are not discussed in a hypocrate so called secular society.

    Excellent. Carry on.
     
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  15. OneGrimPilgrim

    OneGrimPilgrim Senior Member Senior Member

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    whr invaders hv been eulogised, heroes binned!!
    request you to share his posts over on SM for wider reach of the 'right' thinking among your friends and general populace. am sure he wont mind.
     
  16. Indx TechStyle

    Indx TechStyle War Mongerer Veteran Member Senior Member

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  17. Screambowl

    Screambowl Ghanta Senior Member? Senior Member

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    This is indeed a clever play by ISI and a masterstroke!! Our babus were busy drinking tea LOL... saley chut*ye
     
  18. OrangeFlorian

    OrangeFlorian Anon Supreme Senior Member

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    bulldoze all the madrassahs. Make it illegal for any madrassahs to built on Indian soil that the best answer.
     
  19. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Convert Muslims to hindus. Make it more costly for muzzies to be muzzies. Marginalize them and make them rething to remain Muzzies. Attached the waqf board properties. Make 1 child policy for them. And this is the only solution. Muzzies all over the world are in suicide mode. They want to finish the world before they finish themselves. We need to take very very strong action in kashmir and defeate Muzzie's design. If they oppose, be ruthless and destroy them without any mercy. Very big Muzzie population is a big threat on India. We need a strategy. We can not turn blind eye on Muzzi's growing population.
     
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  20. HariPrasad-1

    HariPrasad-1 Senior Member Senior Member

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    I agree with you sir. But in that process we should not forget to hail whatever little positive is there.
     

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