How The Chinese View India

[nimo_cn]

lastest images of Chinese islands, come and stop us, you jealous indians!

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[Mad Indian]

Name me one single case in foreign affairs that CCP makes the decision against the view of Chinese public.

Pfft. I don't even know with any reliability "what" the common Chinese view is as against that of CCP. That's the beauty of autocracies. If tomorrow CCP decides to sell Tibet to India, I am pretty sure most of the Chinese will be here defending such stupid decision. I mean do they even have a choice?

Anyway as for specific example , I am pretty sure Chinese believe Mao killing 60million Chinese in cultural revolution was an awesome idea and thing to do. I want one Chinese poster residing in China to come and criticise Mao in this Indian forum . I dare them. I double dare them

 

[Mad Indian]

we dont need you to sincerely recognize Chinese sovereignty over south China Sea. If endorsement from India is a must, China could do nothing.

I am asking how do you think of Vietnam's reclamation work on the reefs? Vietnam's island building is not destroying the environment?

what a crap!

I love to see you clowns jumping up and down as China is gaining defacto control over SCS.

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If this is the attitude of the average Chinese, I am pretty glad that all countries of the Asia Pacific rim are readying themselves for gangbanging PRC.


I still don't understand why the Bleed heart morons back in India even think friendship with China is possible.

 

[Rashna]

Indians are not fighting for these islands, but your claim to most of the territory in the south china sea is not going down easy with others... Are you prepared to fight everybody else?

Row over South China Sea: US seeks Asian countries’ support to corner China
Reuters | May 28, 2015, 08.17 PM IST
WASHINGTON: By releasing video of Beijing's island reclamation work and considering more assertive maritime actions, the United States is signaling a tougher stance over the South China Sea and trying to spur Asian partners to more action.

The release last week of the surveillance plane footage — showing dredgers and other ships busily turning remote outcrops into islands with runways and harbors — helps ensure the issue will dominate an Asian security forum starting on Friday attended by US defense secretary Ash Carter as well as senior Chinese military officials.

As it pushes ahead with a military "pivot" to Asia partly aimed at countering China, Washington wants Southeast Asian nations to take a more united stance against China's rapid acceleration this year of construction on disputed reefs.

The meeting, the annual Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, will be overshadowed by the tensions in the South China Sea, where Beijing has added 1,500 acres to five outposts in the resource-rich Spratly islands since the start of this year.

"These countries need to own it (the issue)," one US defense official said on condition of anonymity, adding that it was counterproductive for the United States to take the lead in challenging China over the issue.

More unified action by the partners, including the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations (Asean), needed to happen soon because "if you wait four years, it's done," the official said.

While some Asean members, including US ally the Philippines and fellow claimant Vietnam, have been vocal critics of Chinese maritime actions, the group as a whole has been divided on the issue and reluctant to intervene.
Read more at.......
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...port-to-corner-China/articleshow/47460182.cms

lastest images of Chinese islands, come and stop us, you jealous indians!

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[Compersion]

What is the difference India means to Communist Chinese and Non Communist Chinese? Nothing! India is the same for both groups (Actually it is quite hard to tell who is Communist Chinese and who is non communist Chinese. It is more like today's left party and right party among Westerners): A foreign country.

The hatred is more like the feeling between Indian and Pakistani, or even worse.
Dislike is more like the relationship between you and your girlfriend's ex-boyfriend who is still trying to get her back by disgracing you.

When doing business, they are all the same.

Are you sure that there is absolute no difference and nothing to differentiate between Communist Chinese and Non Communist Chinese. Not sure if it is fair to say this but I feel you are pretending to be ignorant. And also there is no difference in approach to India for both groups. I do respect your opinions but there is no need to create a ambiguity for fear of being wrong and don't be afraid of being honest.

1. The Communist Chinese and Non-Communist Chinese is not like a left and right party and please do not get into it being elected and people electing them. If that was the situation the CPC would be part of the Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau elections. None of these areas have any residue of open Chinese Communist Party presence and apparatus (why it is hidden and subliminal is wonderful analysis). The most ironic is that PRC CPC makes their positions and support through people by labeling them to be Pro PRC and patriotic but never Pro Communist and a Communist Chinese.

Xi Jinping is a Communist Chinese no doubt about that. Is that false.

You can even raise KMT and DPP but they are not Communist Chinese. Ask a Taiwanese right and left opined person are they Communist. Next ask a Singaporean after that Hong Kongese, after that Macausese, after that American Born Chinese, after that a British born Chinese. Even ask the most students studying overseas from PRC (especially those that dont return).

You know that you know that a Communist Chinese is only CPC. and not all Chinese are Communist Chinese.

I refer to the source:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

Membership (2014) 86.7 million

That is not even 10% of Chinese people (PRC and non-PRC).

Perhaps even you are not Communist Chinese (by the way you try and make everyone the same and like Communist Chinese perhaps you have some shame and not agreement in being label Communist).

The more advanced analysis and different in approach is something like this:

A. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Jayakumar

B. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Yeo

C. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._Shanmugam

And also when Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau elect people you never see a person say please vote for them they are Communist Chinese and Communist Party of China member. Do people have a choice to not accept CPC in China (are they above Special like Specially Special - more on that later).

Why there is no CPC Hong Kong, CPC Taiwan, CPC Macau ...

2. I dont really understand the disliking part ... i would have confidence in my girl friend being faithful and abiding by principles of righteousness and fearing the consequence of doing anything wrong. Being truthful and doing the right thing ... a ex-boy friend that has mental issues would not make any difference to a girl friend that has a strong bond and trust in her boy friend fear nothing. Plus we are taught from our ancient scriptures about family and doing the right thing and being truthful (some of which have been translated for Communist and Non Communist Chinese benefit).

I think the better template is envy and jealousy that you are combing into dislike. It is a hybrid of such. But again i dont think that there is even dislike between Chinese and Indians. CPC and Government of India sure that is different. Again CPC is all Chinese. CPC is 86.7 million people. You are saying 10% more Chinese people dislike Indians.

3. Are Communist Chinese better business-people compare to Non Communist Chinese.

You say they are the same. Again dont pretend to be ignorant.

I would not make the policy decision of making southern PRC a manufacturing hub to be a business decision and making money. Sure it can be entitled to such a grouping because a lot of money has been made. But making money was not the primary reason. Even now making money is not primary reason for Communists (CPC). But for non-communist and majority of Chinese making money is (major) primary reason. And frankly many are really good at it. And there is no shame about that.

What happens when Communist Chinese is given only one choice either (i) make lots of money and (ii) protect the domestic solidity.

Thats when we observe the Communist Chinese (is it upgrading) becomes a Non-Communist Chinese ... they become Special. A Communist Chinese cannot be a good business person because it is simply impossible:

special ˈspɛʃ(ə)l/Submit adjective 1. better, greater, or otherwise different from what is usual. "they always made a special effort at Christmas" synonyms: exceptional, particular, extra special, unusual, marked, singular, uncommon, notable, noteworthy, remarkable, outstanding, unique More 2. belonging specifically to a particular person or place. "we want to preserve our town's special character" synonyms: distinctive, distinct, individual, particular, specific, certain, peculiar, definite, express, precise "we want to preserve our town's special character" noun 1. a thing, such as a product or broadcast, that is designed or organized for a particular occasion or purpose. "television's election night specials"

The Special Trinity of Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau and their Special agreements and Special Constitutions.

The Special Communist People of China. The Specially Special Chinese. The Specially Special Special Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China.

As long as things are in a status quo thats fine. Like you said there are people that you need and can hate and Indians are not anywhere near those.

But frankly we Indians do not like to be talked to like you are special. And frankly Indian people do not think they are more special to Chinese people. Chinese people and Indian people can do a lot and work together and frankly it is such a shame that we dont do it more often.

 

[Compersion]

lastest images of Chinese islands, come and stop us, you jealous indians!

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Buddy hold on - wait. "you jealous indians". What are you saying. Why are we jealous ... do you mind to elaborate

Also we have nothing to do with such areas even though many of the groups that having actual standing and rights want us to be more participatory. And these groups want you to stop.

"One country has gone much further and much faster than any other, and that's China. China has reclaimed over 2,000 acres, more than all other claimants combined and more than in the entire history of the region. And China did so in only the last 18 months." Many of China's artificial islands are much closer to other countries' mainland shores than they are to its own.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/05/30/politics/singapore-south-china-sea-ash-carter/index.html

"Yet a few moments later, away from the crowd and cameras, Colonel Zhou’s defiant tone gave way to a seemingly more subtle appreciation of the complex relationship that binds the United States and China together and, at the same time, pushes them apart. The speech by Mr. Carter that prompted his comments had “balance,” Colonel Zhou said in a brief interview.

“We do not disagree on all things,” he added, before rushing off to huddle with fellow Chinese officers at the conference."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/31/w...hina-and-us-skirt-conflict-at-talks.html?_r=0

I dont really want to get into the mastery of the PRC approach and if this is right and wrong. It is a grey area and many other nations have done worse frankly. PRC has every right to build bases on their own territory. Opinion creation is also a art. And frankly the art of diplomacy has many contours like you can see to the latter source.

But if the issue is building on disputed territory ... and building artificial islands to claim rights that makes one incline more towards a negative view towards PRC.

http://www.pca-cpa.org/showpage.asp?pag_id=1529

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines_v._China

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richa...na_b_6386216.html?ir=India&adsSiteOverride=in

If we talk about ignoring international law ... yes we would be jealous how PRC able to bend it

Also we paid the Russians in a open and transparent agreement to get a Air Craft Carrier. We even paid more when they asked because we sat down and did it in a fair and open manner between ourselves. And it is working and we never said it would be used to be a casino and theme park and later openly used it against a contractual undertaking that was made using a (low) consideration amount. (we would be labelled to not abide by international law and norms).

We also dont need to convert our islands to have air strip to make it appear that they are (stationary) air craft carrier and would rather focus our energy and skills in making a actual air craft carrier and making our military bases in sea to be more robust and not threaten any whole group of nations.

Your pictures you have uploaded where are these exactly: Please make it clear and conclusive.

People like you need to control your feelings. Thank god that people that make foreign policy in PRC are pragmatic and sensible.

If you are building air strip on undisputed territory that belong to PRC what is the fuss and problem. Go ahead and do it.

Reclamation is a good business is PRC promoting it for business purpose and better compared to us Indians. I dont understand the jealousy part.

 

[anupamsurey]

Supporting Pakis in anti India activities, frequent border Incursions, also supporting the maoists in India, is it a friendly move by chinkus?.

when it comes to International politics and strategic issues it doesn't matter what the scholars, and common people think. to make my point much clearer-
Did nehru Chacha asked Indian citizens when he decided to develop friendly ties with the soviets.

did Indira gandhi asked Indians before going to 1971 war, or did she asked for opinion on development of nuclear Bomb.
Did Narshimha Rao (Congressi) asked Indians when he decided to go ahead and collaborate with Israel (they did it secretly because most of the muslims- who are strictly abhor Jews would have kicked INC's bum).

Most of the Indians want peaceful ties with Pakis, but is it possible?

nobody asks about issues of national importance to common people (either in democracy or in tyranny about), unless they are as fool as kejriwal. because this issues are not best handled with sentiments in mind.
Irrespective of the rule a common people is not entitled to have a voice in International and strategic issues, Indians like common people all over the world want education, jobs, better opportunities, better social Indices, etc, etc.

at best we can have good and positive relations with China (more like Neighbors in urban areas-hi-by type of relations), never cordial, friendly or bhai, bhai type.

 

[mattster]

The Chinese Strategy is a very simple 6-step method:

Step 1)
Grab as many Islands in the Spratly and nearby Islands as you can, and quietly reclaim land and build a military Command with a naval and aircraft base.

Step 2)
Use the new Naval and Aircraft Base to then further extend your claim to more Islands even further out that are barely within a hundred miles to the shores of Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam, and maybe even as far as Indonesia.

Step 3)
Physically enforce the new claim domain by using Naval and Airforce assets to keep fisherman, ASEAN oil companies, and the Navies and Air Force of ASEAN countries out of this extended area claimed by China.
Dont start a war, but use it for intimidation.

Step 4)
Use your new dominant position in the South China Sea to bully the smaller ASEAN neighbour countries who are long standing US allies. "Bully" here refers to multiple levels - diplomatic, economic and military.

Enter into "never-ending" negotiations about coastal territorial claims with all ASEAN countries and use those negiotiations to bully and extract more concessions. (AKA - India have seen this movie many times before !! )

Step 5)
Build a new nuclear submarine base in the Spratly's to consolidate your control and keep out any other major power like the US.

Step 6)
The Final Psych Op dimension - Use the new expansion and control of the entire South China Sea to whip up a new wave of nationalistic hysteria and passion in China for the military and CCP.

Use this new found nationalistic fervour to increase the popularity and strength and control of the CCP among a new materialistic generation of Chinese who couldn't care less about the communist ideology of Mao, Marx or Stalin.

Use this new territorial muscle flexing victory to bolster the legitimacy of the CCP, and sideline a new generation of restless young Chinese who want more democratic changes.

 

[amoy]

Okay, China is a revisionist that the status-quo-ist superpower is suspicious of and not ready to embrace yet for fear of eroding its own dominance. Indeed not much solace in the reassuring rhetoric of "the pacific is wide enough to accomodate both" .

It takes much time, for stakeholders, to gauge and embrace the changes.

In due course the status-quo-ist, along with other SCS claimants will get used to the new equilibrium, as much as India's taken for granted the presence of the Diego Garcia base. China shall not continue to be freeloading on the security America provides. Instead she shall shoulder some more responsibility as expected to safeguard navigation freedom etc. etc., to alleviate the burden on the US.

By then there wouldn't be such a racket.

 

[Compersion]

3,270 mi
Distance from Alaska to Harbin, Heilongjiang (PRC)

5,178 mi
Distance from Alaska to Arunachal Pradesh (India)

To say USA must not be in Pacific Ocean and nearby is not same like saying USA must not be in Indian Ocean. Diego Garcia does not hold the same value and significance for example like Guam. Diego Garcia also has reasons where it might be possible for British and Americans to move out but that is not the same to Guam. And Japan and South Korea and even Taiwan have USA protection (like North Korea has PRC protection). For USA areas nearby Japan, South Korea and Taiwan are not foreign but domestic issues both in calculation of distance and also substance.

To even suggest and think that USA and India will enter into a military conflict directly at this stage is like looney tunes. It is because of distance and substance that USA and India at this stage have no reason to fight one another.

What happen to the PRC saying they want North Korea to reunite with South Korea. (shock, denial, frustration, depression -> shock, denial, frustration, depression - > repeat)

 

[no smoking]

Are you sure that there is absolute no difference and nothing to differentiate between Communist Chinese and Non Communist Chinese. Not sure if it is fair to say this but I feel you are pretending to be ignorant. And also there is no difference in approach to India for both groups. ......
Why there is no CPC Hong Kong, CPC Taiwan, CPC Macau ...

Did you read what I wrote? I said:"
What is the difference India means to Communist Chinese and Non Communist Chinese? Nothing! India is the same for both groups (Actually it is quite hard to tell who is Communist Chinese and who is non communist Chinese. It is more like today's left party and right party among Westerners): A foreign country."

On foreign affairs, there is no difference between Communist Chinese and Non Communist Chinese. No need to get HK, Taiwan or Macau into the consideration, they are treated an entity independent from China by the world

2. I dont really understand the disliking part ... i would have confidence in my girl friend being faithful and abiding by principles of righteousness and fearing the consequence of doing anything wrong. Being truthful and doing the right thing ... a ex-boy friend that has mental issues would not make any difference to a girl friend that has a strong bond and trust in her boy friend fear nothing. Plus we are taught from our ancient scriptures about family and doing the right thing and being truthful (some of which have been translated for Communist and Non Communist Chinese benefit).

I think the better template is envy and jealousy that you are combing into dislike. It is a hybrid of such. But again i dont think that there is even dislike between Chinese and Indians. CPC and Government of India sure that is different. Again CPC is all Chinese. CPC is 86.7 million people. You are saying 10% more Chinese people dislike Indians.

So, you get my point: Chinese doesn't hate India. The worst case is that Chinese may dislike India.

3. Are Communist Chinese better business-people compare to Non Communist Chinese.

You say they are the same. Again dont pretend to be ignorant.

I would not make the policy decision of making southern PRC a manufacturing hub to be a business decision and making money. Sure it can be entitled to such a grouping because a lot of money has been made. But making money was not the primary reason. Even now making money is not primary reason for Communists (CPC). But for non-communist and majority of Chinese making money is (major) primary reason. And frankly many are really good at it. And there is no shame about that.

No, making money was the primary reason that the whole reform started---the PRC economy was on the edge of collapse in late 1970s. No one is shamed about this. In 1980s, putting all your family wealth into private business was still quite risky decision. CCP had to ask her members to play the pioneers, some of them did get rich, some lost all the money and some turned to be corruptive. Today, being a communist Chinese doesn't necessarily mean you can only work for CCP.

Today, being a CCP member doesn't mean you believe Communism. But there are lots of non-CCP member does believe communism. So, people judge you identity based on your belief instead of your membership.

What happens when Communist Chinese is given only one choice either (i) make lots of money and (ii) protect the domestic solidity.

Basically, CCP's view is: the only way to protect the domestic solidity is making people rich by making lots of money LEGALLY. So, to them, these 2 are the same.

Thats when we observe the Communist Chinese (is it upgrading) becomes a Non-Communist Chinese ... they become Special. A Communist Chinese cannot be a good business person because it is simply impossible:

Why not possible? People only join the CCP after 18, which means they receive the same education as others.
After that, unlike non-Communist Chinese, you will continue to receive special educations offered by CCP: a major part of these educations is about economy and business management. Meanwhile, if you prove your ability, CCP will allocate you to various positions in various departments, even state owned companies, so you can have various experiences in multi fields.

So, when a Communist Chinese decides to quit his job and become a businessman, he has following advantages:
Comprehensive career training;
Broader experience from politics to commercial environment;
Larger social network:
Great communication skills;
Great leadership practice;

I would say he will be a better businessman than most of people highly likely.

The Special Trinity of Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau and their Special agreements and Special Constitutions.

...... Chinese people and Indian people can do a lot and work together and frankly it is such a shame that we dont do it more often.

Don't understand what you are talking about here. Where did I say anything about being special?

 

[Compersion]

Don't understand what you are talking about here. Where did I say anything about being special?

Only two points:

1) Why is HK, Taiwan and Macau foreign affairs to PRC. Again why the Special and different treatment. What happen to One China. What happen to CPC Hong Kong, CPC Taiwan and CPC Macau. Is CPC specially special (a apparatus above the Hong Kong locals, Taiwan locals, Macua locals).

I know you know that the Hong Kong locals, Taiwan locals, Macua locals have some really smart business, technical, and intellectual people (more on that later) but they are not Communists. How many Communists are there in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macua. Are they member of CPC Hong Kong, CPC Taiwan and CPC Macau. Why 100% of population of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macua not Communists. How many are Communists. There is no difference between Communist and Non-Communist Chinese.

2) Refer to your quote:

"Why not possible? People only join the CCP after 18, which means they receive the same education as others.
After that, unlike non-Communist Chinese, you will continue to receive special educations offered by CCP: a major part of these educations is about economy and business management. Meanwhile, if you prove your ability, CCP will allocate you to various positions in various departments, even state owned companies, so you can have various experiences in multi fields.

So, when a Communist Chinese decides to quit his job and become a businessman, he has following advantages:
Comprehensive career training;
Broader experience from politics to commercial environment;
Larger social network:
Great communication skills;
Great leadership practice;

I would say he will be a better businessman than most of people highly likely."

You are affirming that a Communist is different from a Non-Communist.

How do you join the CPC. Is it voluntary is it selection. I would place firmly in the center the university examination entrance test and government and foreign service examination to this selection procedure and most importantly the family pre 1980 communist connection (50% weight-age).

You are also making a strong presumption that the selection and training is flawless. We can for now look at the word selection. Selection implies the person being selected is accommodating and voluntary and fit for the long-term. Selection also implies there is a standard process and no deficiency. What is that. How does CPC select its members. Can CPC make mistakes. Greed is a symptom of capitalism and such people might enter the CPC and game its workings to rise and you are saying that a good business person can be a Communist. A state-owned corporation are the CEO and Board Members all Communist.

I take it a little ahead for example the alumni of CPC:

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Xilai

2) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Ziyang

3) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhu_Rongji

33% success rate. The success make good decisions. It is like a good MBA will explain they can be wrong 99% of time but that 1% being right will make him rich.

I admire Zhu Rongji. He had juice.

The flip side is obvious and i dont need to say it.

A Communist impossible to become a good business person because to join CPC the reason is not to be become a business person. The CPC is a membership club that needs to survive and having a family member makes loyalty easier frankly and easier control since the qualification is not relative to a person that scores high on a university examination entrance test and government and foreign service examination. Sure we can transform a cat into a tiger they are linked by DNA.

I am not saying a Tiger cannot be created in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau.

The current leaders of CPC have old school master overview who are wise and pragmatic because of hardship and frankly they have seen a lot. These "elders" are what drive PRC at this moment.

But these "elders" dont select people any longer. They know that after they are gone ...

The earlier part of CPC Hong Kong, CPC Taiwan and CPC Macau is critical because the leader of PRC has to tell the world he is leader of One China and all Chinese people. That is the weapon of staying in power and having value of CPC and frankly having any people of substance showing any inclination to join them. Once the people of Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau and even PRC question why Communist and capability of Communist because most Chinese are Non-Communist ... why the CPC representing all of Chinese to the world ... already the thin red line is stretching. Taiwan reason to affirm One China is absolutely different to why PRC affirm One China. What about Hong Kong and Macau. Are they having One China approach of Taiwan <-> PRC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_China

Membership (2014) 86.7 million

One China needs to be made to sing in the school and sung by everyone when they wake up in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau.

A bit like how yahya khan picture needs to be put on every wall in PRC.

Pakis really needs to be thanked for the business performance of PRC. The primary reason why PRC made money and like you said moved away from collapse in 1970s is because of Pakis.

Perhaps some Pakis can be asked to selected in the CPC for business training. Many people are saying Pakis are not good business person and the Communist Chinese are better.

 

[no smoking]

Only two points:

1) Why is HK, Taiwan and Macau foreign affairs to PRC. Again why the Special and different treatment. What happen to One China. What happen to CPC Hong Kong, CPC Taiwan and CPC Macau. Is CPC specially special (a apparatus above the Hong Kong locals, Taiwan locals, Macua locals).

What special treatment? Simply because they were not ruled by CCP before 1990s and CCP has no intention replicate its own system in these areas.

I know you know that the Hong Kong locals, Taiwan locals, Macua locals have some really smart business, technical, and intellectual people (more on that later) but they are not Communists. How many Communists are there in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macua. Are they member of CPC Hong Kong, CPC Taiwan and CPC Macau. Why 100% of population of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macua not Communists. How many are Communists. There is no difference between Communist and Non-Communist Chinese.

Does it matter? I don't understand how this is related to our discussion here.

You are affirming that a Communist is different from a Non-Communist.

What is difference between an Indian working in Tata and another who is working in a small countryside factory?

How do you join the CPC. Is it voluntary is it selection. I would place firmly in the center the university examination entrance test and government and foreign service examination to this selection procedure and most importantly the family pre 1980 communist connection (50% weight-age).

Basically, voluntary. No examination is a part of the procedure. Majority of CCP members are from peasants, workers and soldiers who never took these exams.

You are also making a strong presumption that the selection and training is flawless.

There is no selection and training is flawless, but selection and training is far better than no selection and training.

We can for now look at the word selection. Selection implies the person being selected is accommodating and voluntary and fit for the long-term. Selection also implies there is a standard process and no deficiency. What is that. How does CPC select its members. Can CPC make mistakes.

How does McDonald promote her own employee? You perform well in your position and prove your potential for a greater duty, you will receive some trainings or even university education. When the time comes that you are listed as the candidate for a senior position. If you win in voting among your bosses, you will receive another career training to help you prepare for the new job.

Regular training was very important part of CCP policy since the time it was formed: at the early stage, the major source of her members were those illiterates. So, internal education was the only way to get qualified junior and senior leaders.

Greed is a symptom of capitalism and such people might enter the CPC and game its workings to rise and you are saying that a good business person can be a Communist. A state-owned corporation are the CEO and Board Members all Communist.

Don't you agree that all CCP did in the past 30 years already turned China to a capitalism country? Do you think they archive this by a group of people know nothing about Capitalism?
Why a good business person can't be a Communist? CCP said yes.

A Communist impossible to become a good business person because to join CPC the reason is not to be become a business person. The CPC is a membership club that needs to survive and having a family member makes loyalty easier frankly and easier control since the qualification is not relative to a person that scores high on a university examination entrance test and government and foreign service examination. Sure we can transform a cat into a tiger they are linked by DNA.

Well, for ordinary CCP members, they started as any other ordinary Chinese--working in an ordinary position: you can work hard for promotion or you can be a lazy ass staying in the ground floor for all your life. You don't need to worry about your membership unless you commit a crime. Again, there is no official exam within CCP system. You working performance is the exam. You want to climb the ladder? Prove yourself.

CCP's theory is: you can't be a tiger if you can't prove yourself in the forest even you are born in a tiger family.
You can become a tiger if you can prove your value in the forest even if you are born in a rabbit family.

I am not saying a Tiger cannot be created in Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau.

The current leaders of CPC have old school master overview who are wise and pragmatic because of hardship and frankly they have seen a lot. These "elders" are what drive PRC at this moment.

But these "elders" dont select people any longer. They know that after they are gone ...

Wrong, Deng is the last one has the power to select. He died 20 years ago. After him, it was the CCP central committee is selecting the leaders not some "elders".

The earlier part of CPC Hong Kong, CPC Taiwan and CPC Macau is critical because the leader of PRC has to tell the world he is leader of One China and all Chinese people. That is the weapon of staying in power and having value of CPC and frankly having any people of substance showing any inclination to join them. Once the people of Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau and even PRC question why Communist and capability of Communist because most Chinese are Non-Communist ... why the CPC representing all of Chinese to the world ... already the thin red line is stretching. Taiwan reason to affirm One China is absolutely different to why PRC affirm One China. What about Hong Kong and Macau. Are they having One China approach of Taiwan <-> PRC.

Today, around 70% of Chinese still support CCP's ruling. So, HK, Taiwan and Macau doesn't matter to CCP's legitimacy.

 

[Compersion]

What special treatment? Simply because they were not ruled by CCP before 1990s and CCP has no intention replicate its own system in these areas.

Today, around 70% of Chinese still support CCP's ruling. So, HK, Taiwan and Macau doesn't matter to CCP's legitimacy.

Thanks for replying. Also i love to read your response and in fairness they are structured and with definition and you understand the flavor of the position. I will say if you are able to recognize that means it is not fictional.

You say that "What special treatment? Simply because they were not ruled by CCP before 1990s and CCP has no intention replicate its own system in these areas."

Q. What is the role of CPC in Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau. What is CPC system that is not going to be used in these areas. If the role of CPC is above the locals of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau it is naturally more special -> Specially Special.

You ask "What is difference between an Indian working in Tata and another who is working in a small countryside factory?"

A. They are not the same. Communist and Non-Communist Chinese are not the same. All Chinese are not Communist. No doubt since you have agreed to that already. The membership of CPC displays that.

You say "Don't you agree that all CCP did in the past 30 years already turned China to a capitalism country? Do you think they archive this by a group of people know nothing about Capitalism?
Why a good business person can't be a Communist? CCP said yes."

A. Please be careful in not acknowledging the non-communist Chinese. If they discover and understand that all the credit and ignorance of others is going to Communist Chinese how do you think they will react. Simply making the non-communist be a CPC member and giving perks destabilizes your selection theory (Jacky Chan is best example i use). There is many of these in Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong. They might ask why Communist and CPC think they are great they would not be anything without them in the past, present and future. I am sure when Non-Communist Chinese deal with Communist Chinese business people they think they are the same.

You also touch a wonderful analysis on CPC selection. Appreciation especially knowing now that Majority of CPC members are from peasants, workers and soldiers. It must be hard to find peasants, workers since the economy and PRC is doing really well. The CPC selection is the most critical and significant parameter for development and continued PRC direction.

You refer to the CPC central committee but how many of these are selected by Deng, and Zemin. Zemin needs to get more credit for what he did and the (better) people that coming through now are having his credentials. Use of CPC central committee he must be laughing himself. Poor guy.

He was perhaps the most similar to Chiang Ching-kuo and lee hsien loong and Park Geun-hye but without the final end product (the transition) and he ought to have been given much longer. For him to do what he did was testament for him to see if CPC central committee works. And I would not be surprised if his affirmation is Communists are not good business people. He must also feel Non-Communist are not Communist. He will think all Chinese are not Communists. He knows CPC is 86.7 million membership. The reason why (*****) see below came into power and Zemin had to make way is the underpinning of why Communist CPC working but he must think it is not right. Did he do a Tony Blair because of some gentleman agreement. Did the CPC select his replacement.

I refer a example:

Group 1:
Qian Qichen *
Tang Jiaxuan ** (i am sure this guy holds a veto on foreign matters and is consulted still)
Li Zhaoxing ** (i am sure this guy holds a veto on foreign matters and is consulted still)
Yang Jiechi (not sure if he is in this group but when in doubt stick to correlation but the shadows are large)

Group 2:
Wang Yi

Group 1 was selected by whom and how. CPC Central Committee - please be serious. The same goes with nearly all and every department in PRC.

Group 1:
Deng *
Zemin ** (i am sure this guy holds a veto on all matters and is consulted still)
Hu Jintao *****
Xi Jinping (not sure if he is in this group but when in doubt stick to correlation but the shadows are large)

Group 2:
XXX

The quality of group 1 is exponentially higher. In fact Group 1 is the reason why i have faith in PRC and it being pragmatic and appropriate still with good decision making.

You also remind me of a wonderful story i read long ago. It is about beauty, intelligence and being wise. Sometimes it brings pain and hardship because others take advantage of it and also recognize it.

The story of Zhen Huan, from a kind and innocent girl, growing into a calculating woman in the palace; and through her intelligence, recovering from multiple times of losing power. In the end, she reaches the peak and becomes the absolutely powerful Empress Dowager, when she is left with only the bitter loneliness in the palace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empresses_in_the_Palace

Someone told me that the story was a copy of a story from India. When i heard someone tell me that i thought that is even more dramatic.

 

[no smoking]

A. They are not the same. Communist and Non-Communist Chinese are not the same. All Chinese are not Communist. No doubt since you have agreed to that already. The membership of CPC displays that.

Well, basically, they are the same. There is no more ideology playing significant role in CCP’s member application. People joins the party mostly because there will be a greater career opportunity as a party member (they can not only compete against the non-party member on the position in private sectors, but also work towards those leaders within government or state-own-companies), not because they believe in Communism.


Your mistake is that you still treat CCP as a party built on ideology. But it is not any more.

A. Please be careful in not acknowledging the non-communist Chinese. If they discover and understand that all the credit and ignorance of others is going to Communist Chinese how do you think they will react. Simply making the non-communist be a CPC member and giving perks destabilizes your selection theory (Jacky Chan is best example i use).

The matter of fact is that majority of us—non communist Chinese recognize the main rule played by CCP in China’s rising today. Since we make CCP responsible for everything wrong within this country, certainly we should at least attribute most credit to it too.


There is no system is perfect, but if a party can pull a country from edge of death to the world no.2 in just 60 years, I would say this party’s system is far better than the most of other systems in the world.


By the way, Jacky Chan is not a CPC member and he is not pro-Communism either. So, your example is wrong.

There is many of these in Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong. They might ask why Communist and CPC think they are great they would not be anything without them in the past, present and future

I don’t understand why you keep drugging HK or other overseas Chinese into this discussion. They are neither great in the past, nor will be great in the future. I don’t want to repeat our once discussion about HK’s importance to PRC economy. Until you find some hard evidences other than “I believe” or “I think”, I won’t answer more about this part.

I am sure when Non-Communist Chinese deal with Communist Chinese business people they think they are the same.

For junior level position in government, we are the same. For those higher levels, unless we have relatively big advantage on personal skills, they will have an upper hand.

You also touch a wonderful analysis on CPC selection. Appreciation especially knowing now that Majority of CPC members are from peasants, workers and soldiers. It must be hard to find peasants, workers since the economy and PRC is doing really well. The CPC selection is the most critical and significant parameter for development and continued PRC direction.

With 600m peasants and 200m works living in China, how hard do you think it would be to find.

You refer to the CPC central committee but how many of these are selected by Deng, and Zemin. Zemin needs to get more credit for what he did and the (better) people that coming through now are having his credentials. Use of CPC central committee he must be laughing himself. Poor guy.

Very few. Neither of them have enough power to carry on their idea independently. Mao was the only one reached that height. After him, every CCP leader is executing his power based on power balance among different groups.

He was perhaps the most similar to Chiang Ching-kuo and lee hsien loong and Park Geun-hye but without the final end product (the transition) and he ought to have been given much longer. For him to do what he did was testament for him to see if CPC central committee works. And I would not be surprised if his affirmation is Communists are not good business people. He must also feel Non-Communist are not Communist. He will think all Chinese are not Communists. He knows CPC is 86.7 million membership. The reason why (*****) see below came into power and Zemin had to make way is the underpinning of why Communist CPC working but he must think it is not right. Did he do a Tony Blair because of some gentleman agreement. Did the CPC select his replacement.

Don’t know what you talk about here.

I refer a example:


Group 1:

Qian Qichen * ......


The quality of group 1 is exponentially higher. In fact Group 1 is the reason why i have faith in PRC and it being pragmatic and appropriate still with good decision making.

All these are just some guess from tabloid in the streets, let’s leave them out of our discussion because no one knows the truth.

You also remind me of a wonderful story i read long ago. It is about beauty, intelligence and being wise. Sometimes it brings pain and hardship because others take advantage of it and also recognize it.


The story of Zhen Huan, from a kind and innocent girl, growing into a calculating woman in the palace; and through her intelligence, recovering from multiple times of losing power. In the end, she reaches the peak and becomes the absolutely powerful Empress Dowager, when she is left with only the bitter loneliness in the palace.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empresses_in_the_Palace


Someone told me that the story was a copy of a story from India. When i heard someone tell me that i thought that is even more dramatic.

First time I hear that it is a copy of India story. And I check through internet, nowhere to find this statement. Hardly to believe that because it looks like a combination of true historical cases of several famous Chinese empress .

 

[Compersion]

First time I hear that it is a copy of India story. And I check through internet, nowhere to find this statement. Hardly to believe that because it looks like a combination of true historical cases of several famous Chinese empress .

1) Are you saying that all and every members of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, National People's Congress, National Congress of the Communist Party of China members have absolute no allegiance to being a Communist and the CPC. You have declared Communism to be finished and killed in PRC. Amazing.

2) What is your definition of a peasant since you are accommodating a large number of nearly 50% above total population to such a class. Would you say President Xi Jinping is a peasant. Was he one before. Who in the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Standing Committee of the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China was and is a peasant. Please name me some. Perhaps you can name the ones that were workers and soldiers (even less representative of the total population).

Are you saying a minority and niche group of people lead PRC. But Communism represent the people. The people are in control. How are the peasants represented in Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Standing Committee of the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China please name the people.

3) "I don’t understand why you keep drugging HK or other overseas Chinese into this discussion. They are neither great in the past, nor will be great in the future. I don’t want to repeat our once discussion about HK’s importance to PRC economy. Until you find some hard evidences other than “I believe” or “I think”, I won’t answer more about this part."

Now lets take it to a more advanced level. We have touched base on Communist Chinese and Non-Communist Chinese being different. You are saying that the title is useless and in fact expired since current deposition and ideolgy states that there is no difference between Communist Chinese and Non-Communist Chinese and CPC is more like a special society where perks and benefits can be availed and we used the example of how Communist Business people are the same to Non-Communist business people. I beg to differ because it is ridiculous and you yourself consider yourself a Non-Communist. The Communist party like you say has 60 years of history - Not 26 years. In fact the pertinent history of Communist Party and CPC starts really from 2008.

Now the more advanced level: There is difference between people and business people from Northern PRC and Southern PRC.

Like you said the Communist and CPC think they are great and they have done it without anyone else help and support in the past, present and future

Please refer to the quote when you say "They are neither great in the past, nor will be great in the future."

On you reference to evidence it was provided earlier and it is available easily. The strong deposition to this is people from Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau think they are different. You saying that CPC ought to have been thanked for making PRC no.2 is like saying the British and Americans ought to be thanked and given power and land in PRC because it made Chinese people successful.

Please be careful the CPC and Communist Party since they are different and many of these in Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong and Southern PRC and Northern PRC might ask why Communist and CPC think they are great they would not be anything without them in the past, present and future.

4) The CPC membership and selection is a beautiful analysis.

5) Jiang Zemin ought to have got much more to 10 years in power. Why he did not. Why was he limited to 10 years. Why was he one to be limited to 10 years. Why he had to step down in 2003.

Was it because he voluntarily and thoughtfully thought of PRC future and that a system be in place that brings leadership change and transition every ten years. If he did that means he is even more special to Deng and what he sacrificed was greater (Deng remained in power behind the scense for much beyond 10 years). What he did was it a means to prevent a Zhao Ziyang, perhaps a 1989, perhaps even a Mao Zedong and dare you say a Deng. Why this new sudden approach. Are you saying someone trying to be a Deng. Is some group trying to be a Deng and having people take roles below them with ultimate overrule if something goes wrong.
Was it because of the intelligence of Jiang Zemin that Hu Jintao and Xi Jingping are in power. Like you said their is power balance among different groups. That is fine but did CPC select Jiang Zemin replacement. Who choose Jiang Zemin replacement. How and why was he choosen. The reason to that displaced and destroys the whole structure and approach of the CPC and "power balance among different groups" since it avails to a hoodwinked and propagandized outlook of the future from the present but nothing like what was decided in the past.

The reason that Jiang Zemin gave power to Hu Jintao has set a precedent and structure that means people have to give up power. Every department and leader in PRC will have to give up power even if they are great leaders and the successor is less qualified. It was the biggest mistake for CPC and the approach of having a Deng and Mao for Communist rule is better (even look at the Soviet Example). Jiang Zemin outshines much better compared to his successors. Group 1 is much better compared to Group 2. If any leader tries to stay in power beyond the precedent Jiang Zemin had to set (he was forced) the system will snap. And if you refer to my earlier example of Group 1 and Group 2 you will see the risk and rewards of the new approach. The Group 2 leaders are not having any Group 1 level coming through (especially with strong Communist Party allegiance). The new approach is really only being used since after 2003 perhaps 2008 (more accurately). The new approach has to fit in with dynamics that were not in play before 2003. I might even place a bet with someone that Xi Jingping stays beyond 10 years and beyond unofficial retirement age (that is obvious with many uncertainties and variables.)

Hu Jintao had a photographic memory some say. That is one smart chap. Yet many Communist and Non-Communist Chinese say he was not a good leader. Lucky for the 10 years obstacle.

6) No one knows the truth sure. But dont you think you being a Non-Communist Chinese you ought to know the transparent workings of the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Standing Committee of the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China. Perhaps the Communists Chinese don't want to share that with Non-Communists.

7) I had also searched for Zhen Huan after being told it was influenced from India. Long ago i did that search and found some Indian philosophical reasoning that influenced the story line. But (like you) i cannot believe that there is any Indian influence on Zhen Huan. It is 100% PRC DRAMA in origin and thoughts and whatever influence there is overlapped by making it unprecedented and there are many people that follow it.

 

[amoy]

okay my guess is @Compersion may have been muddled with quite a few things in your long write-up.


On Zhen Huan u might refer to Wu Zetian perhaps

Wu was the concubine of Emperor Taizong. After his death, she married his successor and ninth son, Emperor Gaozong, officially becoming Gaozong's furen (variously translated as "empress", "wife", or "first consort") in 655, although having considerable political power prior to this. After Gaozong's debilitating stroke in 690, Wu Zetian ruled as sovereign until 705.[12]

Actually the prince (Gaozong) lost his head over Wu Zetian. Emperor Taizong (father) was very angry at the affair and sent her to a nunnery. Nobody expected Gaozong to succeed the crown at that time.


On CCP IMO it may be not a "textbook" communist party. Anyway just don't get cocooned into an "ideology" then go out to search a reality that perfectly matches the theory.

On Xi Jinping, yes he happened to be a peasant (farmer) for 6-7 years in a drought hit village.
http://contextchina.com/2012/11/ten-facts-about-chinas-incoming-leader-xi-jinping/

Born in 1953 in Shaanxi Province, Xi went to work as a farmer from age 16 to 22, in Liangjiahe village in Shaanxi, as millions of high school students were sent from cities to the countryside during the Cultural Revolution.

 

[no smoking]

1) Are you saying that all and every members of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, National People's Congress, National Congress of the Communist Party of China members have absolute no allegiance to being a Communist and the CPC. You have declared Communism to be finished and killed in PRC. Amazing.

No, Communism is not finished. All they declared is that Communism is not their goal at the CURRENT STAGE.

2) What is your definition of a peasant since you are accommodating a large number of nearly 50% above total population to such a class. Would you say President Xi Jinping is a peasant. Was he one before. Who in the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Standing Committee of the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China was and is a peasant. Please name me some. Perhaps you can name the ones that were workers and soldiers (even less representative of the total population).

How about: was born in a peasant family, father worked as a peasant.

Standing committee: Zhang De Jiang, Liu Yunshan, Zhang Gaoli (3 of 7)


If you ask anyone who was once a peasant or worker, then I have to say all of them because everyone had to started his career from the bottom in Mao era.


Soldiers:

Central military committee: Fan ChangLong, Chang WangQuan, Zhao Keshi, Wei FengHe (4 of 11)

Are you saying a minority and niche group of people lead PRC. But Communism represent the people. The people are in control. How are the peasants represented in Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Standing Committee of the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China please name the people.

Any decision in CCP is made by a group of people. Each member of this group are the head of sub-level groups. The members of the sub-level groups are also the head of lower level groups. This structure goes down to the bottom level. The authority of each leader comes not only from law, but also the support of his own group or department. So his vote must reflect the interest of his supporters to some extent or he will soon be marginalised.


CCP has 80m members. These members are coming from every class and every sector of whole society. These ordinary members may not be able to appoint a leader but they definitely have the power to make it impossible for a leader to carry out his power.

3) Now lets take it to a more advanced level. We have touched base on Communist Chinese and Non-Communist Chinese being different. You are saying that the title is useless and in fact expired since current deposition and ideolgy states that there is no difference between Communist Chinese and Non-Communist Chinese and CPC is more like a special society where perks and benefits can be availed and we used the example of how Communist Business people are the same to Non-Communist business people. I beg to differ because it is ridiculous and you yourself consider yourself a Non-Communist. The Communist party like you say has 60 years of history - Not 26 years. In fact the pertinent history of Communist Party and CPC starts really from 2008.

Don’t get you are talking about.

Like you said the Communist and CPC think they are great and they have done it without anyone else help and support in the past, present and future


Please refer to the quote when you say "They are neither great in the past, nor will be great in the future."


On you reference to evidence it was provided earlier and it is available easily. The strong deposition to this is people from Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macau think they are different. You saying that CPC ought to have been thanked for making PRC no.2 is like saying the British and Americans ought to be thanked and given power and land in PRC because it made Chinese people successful.

Every assistance CCP or China got from HK, Taiwan, Macau or even USA, British was part of deal, which means they got paid for what they did, big time.

As we always said they deliver what we paid while we paid what we got. Furthermore, they earned lot more than they can receive from others.

Do you think the shop owner who sold you the cloth at double rate is great even though this cloth keep you warm in the winter?

Please be careful the CPC and Communist Party since they are different and many of these in Taiwan, Macau and Hong Kong and Southern PRC and Northern PRC might ask why Communist and CPC think they are great they would not be anything without them in the past, present and future.

Well, first of all CCP doesn’t claim they are great alone, they claimed is mainland Chinese is great, themselves is just leaders of this group of great mainland. So your “northern and southern PRC” won’t question why themselves is great.


For those in HK, Taiwan or Macau, no one care if they are great.

5) Jiang Zemin ought to have got much more to 10 years in power. Why he did not. Why was he limited to 10 years. Why was he one to be limited to 10 years. Why he had to step down in 2003.

He is not Mao, or not even close to Deng. Nobody support him to be leader beyond 10 years.

Was it because he voluntarily and thoughtfully thought of PRC future and that a system be in place that brings leadership change and transition every ten years. If he did that means he is even more special to Deng and what he sacrificed was greater (Deng remained in power behind the scense for much beyond 10 years). What he did was it a means to prevent a Zhao Ziyang, perhaps a 1989, perhaps even a Mao Zedong and dare you say a Deng. Why this new sudden approach. Are you saying someone trying to be a Deng. Is some group trying to be a Deng and having people take roles below them with ultimate overrule if something goes wrong.

No, the new approach was started by Deng not Jiang. And Deng did step down as an official leader. But his influence was so great that he can still affect the decision making from home.

Was it because of the intelligence of Jiang Zemin that Hu Jintao and Xi Jingping are in power. Like you said their is power balance among different groups. That is fine but did CPC select Jiang Zemin replacement. Who choose Jiang Zemin replacement. How and why was he choosen. The reason to that displaced and destroys the whole structure and approach of the CPC and "power balance among different groups" since it avails to a hoodwinked and propagandized outlook of the future from the present but nothing like what was decided in the past.

Literally, not a single leader choose them, they are the result of negotiation among various group.

The reason that Jiang Zemin gave power to Hu Jintao has set a precedent and structure that means people have to give up power. ... The new approach has to fit in with dynamics that were not in play before 2003. I might even place a bet with someone that Xi Jingping stays beyond 10 years and beyond unofficial retirement age (that is obvious with many uncertainties and variables.)

Well, CCP has different opinion: Mao or Deng may be better than any of successors, but a good system could work lot better than a great leader like Mao.

More importantly, CCP is confident that their training system can produce equally capable officials.

Hu Jintao had a photographic memory some say. That is one smart chap. Yet many Communist and Non-Communist Chinese say he was not a good leader. Lucky for the 10 years obstacle.

But many Communist and Non-communist Chinese say he was a good leader.

6) No one knows the truth sure. But dont you think you being a Non-Communist Chinese you ought to know the transparent workings of the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China and Standing Committee of the Central Politburo of the Communist Party of China. Perhaps the Communists Chinese don't want to share that with Non-Communists.

Why do I need to know all of these? You may say in democratic country, voters know everything. But the question is: really? Yes, you know how he walks and how he speaks, but you don’t really know how good he actually is.


Obama, for example, majority of Americans thought he would be a great leader based on his speech during election, but it turned out lots of them were disappointed.


The fact is that the majority of public lack the energy to study the leaders and the knowledge to review these leaders’ past performance. All they do is relying upon those commentators or so called ‘experts’ to tell them who is great or who is not. We don’t see how it makes different from us.

 

[Compersion]

okay my guess is @Compersion may have been muddled with quite a few things in your long write-up.


On Zhen Huan u might refer to Wu Zetian perhaps


Actually the prince (Gaozong) lost his head over Wu Zetian. Emperor Taizong (father) was very angry at the affair and sent her to a nunnery. Nobody expected Gaozong to succeed the crown at that time.


On CCP IMO it may be not a "textbook" communist party. Anyway just don't get cocooned into an "ideology" then go out to search a reality that perfectly matches the theory.

On Xi Jinping, yes he happened to be a peasant (farmer) for 6-7 years in a drought hit village.
http://contextchina.com/2012/11/ten-facts-about-chinas-incoming-leader-xi-jinping/

Thanks for reference also historical connection to Zhen Huan it is appreciated.

But i did not refer to Zhen Huan for history and for matter of fact any indian connection. It was to refer to how a 100% PRC gargantuan crisis and drama can be present even in the court of power and one that has 100% characteristics from within. It has no connection to outside and it is 100% PRC drama and when someone suggested to me it was outside it was philosophical but actual behavior is 100% PRC. (Hint: CPC Communism)

On CPC it is fascinating and i feel having the 10 year limit is preventing stability in a one party rule country. The fact that there is understanding and behavior adapt to accepting it means that someone has set a target and path that must be observed. There is ground rules and limits. What are the other ground rules and limits. Is it that one would get a chance to defend his innocence when removed from power by the group.

When Xi Jingping was selected who were the other contenders.

Sure it is like a IMO but it is not a historical representation but a future anticipation. To perfectly fit a theory one looks at the past. The future is factual that Xi Jingping has to be changed by 2022 that is 7 years from now. The past change was it easy. And Xi Jingping has a Group 1 influence (refer to my earlier posts).

Even Wen Jeibao was not selected leader in 1980s. He was selected nearby Y2K. If you are saying that there are a group of [X] potential peasants, soldiers and workers to select the leader of 1.3 billion people by group of CPC thats fine. But making it conclusive that the selection procedure is without fault and deficiency and is not open to transparency is like saying there is only one person qualified.

Also

Defining peasant to be farmer ... thats fascinating. It is the fear of peasant. Is there a group called non-peasant, non-worker, non-soldier. Xi Jingping was a peasant before. He seems to fit into a lot of roles before perhaps one of the reason he was acceptable. But who is next.

CPC never makes mistakes. Have their been any leaders of PRC that were removed. Have their been any leader of PRC that you wish were removed. Are there any current leaders of PRC that you do not like.

(# more on the other post later)

 

[Compersion]

No, Communism is not finished. All they declared is that Communism is not their goal at the CURRENT STAGE.

Thanks i love to read your post because i learn and gain knowledge. I will keep it short and might expand it later in the future. Iam wishing you are having a good weekend.

1) Zhang De Jiang
2) Liu Yunshan
3) Zhang Gaoli

Are you saying that the word peasant is for people that were sent down to do manual labor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sent-down_youth

What about now who are the peasants. I would like to ask are you a peasant.

I also see a theme that the above three were noticed and selected and had better prospects after 1980s. That is when Deng was in power.

If people especially the people at the top can recognize when someone is good and fit to lead the country they can also recognize when someone is not good and not fit to lead the country. Surely Deng had to go through a lot and also he removed a lot of people that he recognize did not fit.

You refer to example of Obama and also the selection of someone by way of through and proper research and a sort of technical analysis:

"Obama, for example, majority of Americans thought he would be a great leader based on his speech during election, but it turned out lots of them were disappointed.

The fact is that the majority of public lack the energy to study the leaders and the knowledge to review these leaders’ past performance. All they do is relying upon those commentators or so called ‘experts’ to tell them who is great or who is not. We don’t see how it makes different from us."

Obama was selected - elected and i am sure you must have followed his election. You might have noticed he was asked many questions and people know even his mother and wife history. People get to know him personally in USA and when they elected - selected him he was the better from the competitors. It was through a transparent and open process.

To destabilize your theory: it is not like saying that the peasants will remove Xi Jingping if he not doing his job properly. The people of PRC cannot remove leaders easily. (Bo Xilai was not removed by the people).

Obama could have been removed in 2012. USA has a 8 year limit. That is even more strict compared to PRC. But USA also has senate limits, and congress man limits. They also have transparency and the court of laws can look into constitutional issues. Obama will be replaced in 2016. The election process is underway already in USA and i am sure you are noticing the transparency in removing leaders and the eventual contenders. The eventual choice is given to the people.

I read with fascinating how Hong Kong and Macau and Taiwan and PRC people elect their leaders. Each are different. I read with fascination how the leader selection is important and when it is not done properly what happens.

In USA it is clear if one is not happy with their leader what they can do.

"Yes, you know how he walks and how he speaks, but you don’t really know how good he actually is."

Also

Q. Do you think the shop owner who sold you the cloth at double rate is great even though this cloth keep you warm in the winter?

If i want that my uncle make and develop modern cloth and it might take him time to develop it i will go to you and even pay double to make the current not modern cloth. You earning double does not mean you making double. You have kept warm in many winters even before you were a shop owner. Showcasing superiority by financial instruments requires one to be transparent and the fear of misappropriation and false arrogation have a tendency to adjust and regularize and standardize.

The Shop owner will have customers because of loyalty and also because of ability to control and manage his staff. The loyalty is there because of ease. The ability to control and manage the staff is on ideology and you can say management style.

1) Jiang Zemin.

Really do not know why he does not get credit. He deserves much more. "They are neither great in the past, nor will be great in the future."

2) Literally, not a single leader choose them, they are the result of negotiation among various group.

3) "Well, CCP has different opinion: Mao or Deng may be better than any of successors, but a good system could work lot better than a great leader like Mao. " I agree that is the plan. But i wish you are in agreement that there is a careful risk management structure that needs to be put in place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stress_testing

4) Hu Jintao

He was selected and Jiang Zemin made way. He would have done 10 years even if he was bad because like you said a good system needs to be put in place. Is the good system right and worthwhile is what Xi Jingping is telling us. Even Putin came through a system.

Hu Jintao was not ambitious some say and doing a duty.

5) "Well, first of all CCP doesn’t claim they are great alone, they claimed is mainland Chinese is great, themselves is just leaders of this group of great mainland. So your “northern and southern PRC” won’t question why themselves is great.

For those in HK, Taiwan or Macau, no one care if they are great."

What happened to the Chinese dream. It seems to have different treatments and flavors. One China is a PRC special special group of people and above the rest.

Northern and Southern PRC people are different and have made different contributions.

PRC is not a federal state. But will people like you question why it is not.

People like you will also might question why the leader of provincial state is selected.

Is Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau a provincial state. Because no one cares if they are special and great.


6) When i was typing the above there was a power cut here (for 2 minutes but enough to disrupt because i had a lot of items on in the house) in India. I started thinking wild terms about my local leader and even thought about converting to Communist party India supporter. My battery power support was keeping my computer alive and suddenly it shut off. I thought it was ridiculous that my country still has power cuts.

But it was different to before it was not a sense of panic this time. Because did i type the whole thing again. Not at all not even a single word.

Auto-save feature.

And with that i realized today is a lot different to before and tomorrow if we do it the right way and with the advantages the peripherals along the way it will compound and develop into a much more stronger movement that world has never seen before and it will not only be good for the region but for the world.

We are not special but we are not bad.

(I know i had said keeping it short. But you know when you get a sense of understanding ... it can happen between two and even between many and with reasonableness it is between one self)