How many Sukhoi 30 MKIs is India going to have?

civfanatic

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Armand, we don't have the resources to depend on an single expensive (approx. unit cost of $80-90 million) fighter jet for the whole air force. We need cost effective solutions, hence the variable platforms and aircrafts. Although, in the future, i agree with Nitesh, that our main platforms will be FGFA, MCA and LCA.
Well, that is an effective solution only if LCA if constantly upgraded and possibly redesigned, as by 2030, when fifth gen fighters become the norn, I'm not sure how competitive LCA in its current state will be.
 

SATISH

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We know well about Jaguars, it was a French plane for many years. LCA is superior in every way, bombing and A2A so buy LCA to replace it. You need more legs, give it a fuel tank and an AAR.
Longer legs are also important. LCA is no where near the capability of Rafale. You got to be kidding me if you are comparing both of them. LCA is cannon fodder. thats all. Rafale is a hi tech mid-end fighter.
 
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icecoolben

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The chinese operate j-10 in light weight and j-11 in heavy weight Category, they ditched jf-17 and pakistan is the beggar that feeds on them.
If these so called medium category planes are meant to be cost effective, why is mmrca $ 75 million per unit? And heavy hitter Su-30 $ 50 million a piece? The arguement mmrca is cheap compliment is completely flawed, the only option, a cheap purchase and operating cost plane to the Heavy hitter for India is LCA tejas.
 

SATISH

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The chinese operate j-10 in light weight and j-11 in heavy weight Category, they ditched jf-17 and pakistan is the beggar that feeds on them.
If these so called medium category planes are meant to be cost effective, why is mmrca $ 75 million per unit? And heavy hitter Su-30 $ 50 million a piece? The arguement mmrca is cheap compliment is completely flawed, the only option, a cheap purchase and operating cost plane to the Heavy hitter for India is LCA tejas.
Man..you have gotten it all wrong..the actual cost of the SU 30 has crossed $100mil a long time back. $50 mil is just the airframe and engine costs..it does not include the avionics, weapons, Radar and etc that goes into the aircraft.
 

icecoolben

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What about Russia? Flankers at the heavy, MiG-29 in the medium and Su-25s for light attack. China has Flankers heavy, J-10 for medium and J-7 (maybe JF-17) light. Do you want to follow that model or go like France that will have only ONE type... Rafale?
Man..you have gotten it all wrong..the actual cost of the SU 30 has crossed $100mil a long time back. $50 mil is just the airframe and engine costs..it does not include the avionics, weapons, Radar and etc that goes into the aircraft.
sorry man, using mobile so hard to post source.
But the price of Su-30 mki escalated to $ 108 million only for the last 40 order that will be configured to carry Brahmos missile, thats like a totally new programs which fed into unit cost of the aircraft. HAL chairman himself admitted that the increased unit cost was due to the low number of aircraft being procured. If perhaps this mmrca is cancelled and 80 more Su-30 with Brahmos launch capacity are built, it will bring cost down to $ 83 million a piece, which is $ 10 million down from saudi deal for Eurofighter.
And Su-30 was conceived to take out strategic targets located deep within nato both aerial and on ground, so it is a deep penetration strike aircraft. But perhaps fgfa can fulfil that role in a future Indian theatre.
 

Armand2REP

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Longer legs are also important. LCA is no where near the capability of Rafale. You got to be kidding me if you are comparing both of them. LCA is cannon fodder. thats all. Rafale is a hi tech mid-end fighter.
Superior to SEPECAT Jaguar
 

SATISH

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Yes icecoolben...SU 30 MKI was bought in 19996 for $50 mil a peice. Today the same SU 30 costs more than 108 million.
 

black eagle

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Yes icecoolben...SU 30 MKI was bought in 19996 for $50 mil a peice. Today the same SU 30 costs more than 108 million.
it has to cost more... even onions cost more today that what it was in 1996. we're talking about a high end fighter jet....
 

Tshering22

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Longer legs are also important. LCA is no where near the capability of Rafale. You got to be kidding me if you are comparing both of them. LCA is cannon fodder. thats all. Rafale is a hi tech mid-end fighter.
Barring the semi-stealth, what else does the MK2 lack? AESA radar, fully digital quad-redundancy, FBW control systems, powerful engine, low radar signature due to excessive composites and small size.

You know, you go to drop this " foreign maal is divine" mentality. Tejas (MK2) would just lag behind in range, more fuel, more payload and maybe some electronics. That's the whole point of making the MK2--- to give something to the IAF that is indigenous, cost-effective, can perform the job well. If Rafale was that OMG, then it would have been sold to someone till now.
 

shuvo@y2k10

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i think the total no. of su-30 mki is going to be around with this latest order is 310.i think india should drop the plans for mmrca and go or more upgraded su-30(of a standard equal to su-35) and run its production line till 2020 to a total of 500 su-30 mki instead of low tech mmrca since we already plan to induct tejas mk-2 in large no. which will be bigger than tejas mk-1 and of comparable technologies as the competitors in mmrca competition.
 

Armand2REP

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You think MMRCA is low tech compared to MKI? What planet you on?
 

SATISH

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Barring the semi-stealth, what else does the MK2 lack? AESA radar, fully digital quad-redundancy, FBW control systems, powerful engine, low radar signature due to excessive composites and small size.

You know, you go to drop this " foreign maal is divine" mentality. Tejas (MK2) would just lag behind in range, more fuel, more payload and maybe some electronics. That's the whole point of making the MK2--- to give something to the IAF that is indigenous, cost-effective, can perform the job well. If Rafale was that OMG, then it would have been sold to someone till now.
As you already told MK2 lacks in range and payload...what other reason can I give you? Remember the MMRCA will eventually replace the Jags and the MiG 27 which are the primary strike aircrafts along with the Mirage 2000-5. So instead of putting all our eggs in the LCA basket MK2 and Rafale/ F 18s can complement each other. Remember the majority of the MMRCA will be going to the eastern front.
 

icecoolben

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Sorry for not quoting source, its on mobile i'm doing it
@satish
I too did come under the $ 108 million when vishal tharpar made the report. But the fact is just before that the previous lot of additional 40 su-30 had cost only $ 48 million. The present 40 costing $ 108 million are exclusively for carrying brhmos just like su-34 is a different variant of su-27, so is this plane a variant of su-30 mki. The present high price is due to program cost feeding unit production costs as well. If 80 more of these super Su-30 are ordered, the costs will come down to $ 83 million a piece not to mention the accompanying $ 2.7 million brahmos too would drop to reasonable levels, which will be less or equal to the twin-engined fighters in mmrca upgraded to IAF requirements. The only problem is sukoi and HAL engineers in Russia are waiting for IAF to send two test bed aircraft.
Mmrca for eastern front? su-30 are already in eastern front, they have longer legs than mmrca, thus better suited for the job.
Lca tejas being placed in south is attributed to what, the sri lankan threat of invasion? They are better suited for western theatre. The myth that mmrca will come faster than mk-1 lca is also what it is- a myth. Though certified in their own countries mmrca themselves will have to be certified in India too for IOC and FOC. So if mmrca IOC takes to 2016 will u scrap it, just like asking for scraping tejas mk-2. On every interview HAL chairman is stressing Lca production can be enhanced with more orders. They are willing to get over with the hawks to ramp up lca production, cause they know inspite of deal with bae, hawk is dead as a dodo. Its only Iaf thats riding it into the sunset. just transfer funds from mmrca to tejas for another production facility, accept mk-1 as an process that leads to the solution not a quick fix . This way a whole lot of trouble can be avoided.
 

sandeepdg

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Well, that is an effective solution only if LCA if constantly upgraded and possibly redesigned, as by 2030, when fifth gen fighters become the norn, I'm not sure how competitive LCA in its current state will be.
We will have the FGFA and the AMCA by then to take care of the fifth generation fighter issue. LCA will then act as force multipliers. Nobody is going to have a full fifth generation AF in our vicinity even by then.
 

sandeepdg

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i think the total no. of su-30 mki is going to be around with this latest order is 310.i think india should drop the plans for mmrca and go or more upgraded su-30(of a standard equal to su-35) and run its production line till 2020 to a total of 500 su-30 mki instead of low tech mmrca since we already plan to induct tejas mk-2 in large no. which will be bigger than tejas mk-1 and of comparable technologies as the competitors in mmrca competition.
There's a purpose to everything ! Who said the MMRCA aircraft are low tech ? They are even better in some parameters than the Sukhoi, i.e. the EF2000 and Rafale. The main difference is their weight. Sukhoi is a heavy fighter, they are medium weight fighters. IAF needs them to replace its main strike aircrafts like Mig-27s, Jagaurs and the Mirage 2000s. They cannot keep increasing the SU-30 MKI numbers for every aircraft they plan to retire ! Do you know how expensive it is to maintain the MKI as compared all other fighters in our inventory ? I trust the IAF with making correct decisions, don't you ??
 

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