How credible is India's second strike capability. Explained in one picture

DingDong

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Avoid mocking beliefs and discuss the topic at hand.
What is the topic again?
.........................................................:confused1:

You want us to discuss the madarassa brain fart.

First learn to distinguish between a land based hybrid missile and a SLBM.

Yes i read you and many others told the same on my twitter handle. But this test shows the cap being blown off which is only used on Sea version. Land version doesnt need the cap and had different much simpler tube.
Just because you said so?
 

Krusty

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I have spent 9 years at sea , so know what i am on about. Swells can be very high even without winds. The perfectly calm sea from where the showcase test of K-15 was recorded is only ideal situation not even normal at high seas.
Launch can be done from harbors and coastal bays where similar conditions exist ,same as chinese used to do with their original Ballistic missile subs which stayed near coastal waters.
I don't care how Long you spent at sea. By that logic I lived my entire life near a beach. That doesn't make me an expert In aerodynamics in turbulent weather or ballistics. Please answer my question.
 

tharun

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Yes i read you and many others told the same on my twitter handle. But this test shows the cap being blown off which is only used on Sea version. Land version doesnt need the cap and had different much simpler tube.
I know you are bashing around here Shaurya missile is different from k-family...
Second brahmos missile cap also gets ejected in any version...
 

tharun

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I have spent 9 years at sea , so know what i am on about. Swells can be very high even without winds. The perfectly calm sea from where the showcase test of K-15 was recorded is only ideal situation not even normal at high seas.
Launch can be done from harbors and coastal bays where similar conditions exist ,same as chinese used to do with their original Ballistic missile subs which stayed near coastal waters.
Watch every SLBM launch....every launch is done while sea is calm...
 

safriz

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I know you are bashing around here Shaurya missile is different from k-family...
Second brahmos missile cap also gets ejected in any version...
Yes True. But Brahmos has an Air Intake at the front which needs to be protected from Debris , hence the cap.
Shuria or K-4 hasnt.
here is land version which hasnt got the cap,as it is removed before launch,not after as in the naval version.
 

tharun

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Yes True. But Brahmos has an Air Intake at the front which needs to be protected from Debris , hence the cap.
Shuria or K-4 hasnt.
here is land version which hasnt got the cap,as it is removed before launch,not after as in the naval version.
Which missile is that....? that is not brahmos...Brahmos is always stored in individual missile container
 

safriz

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Which missile is that....? that is not brahmos...
That is Shuriya land version whose cap is removed before launch.
Only submarine version needs the cap until it is out of water so that the warhead and electronics are safe and also to make it hydrodynamic.
 
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Tarun Kumar

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Shaurya is land version of K15 not K4. K4 is a full fledged ballistic missile capable of carrying nuclear weapons and India has conducted multiple secret tests of K4. Most likely both Arihant and Aridhman will only have K4 missile and we will skip K15 altogether.
 

safriz

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Shaurya is land version of K15 not K4. K4 is a full fledged ballistic missile capable of carrying nuclear weapons and India has conducted multiple secret tests of K4. Most likely both Arihant and Aridhman will only have K4 missile and we will skip K15 altogether.
Exactly my point. K-15 is not real undersea deterrent. M<ight be good for land version as lesser weight to range ratio than all other indian ballistic missiles. But as SLBM it has shortcomings.
 

Chinmoy

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I have spent 9 years at sea , so know what i am on about. Swells can be very high even without winds. The perfectly calm sea from where the showcase test of K-15 was recorded is only ideal situation not even normal at high seas.
Launch can be done from harbors and coastal bays where similar conditions exist ,same as chinese used to do with their original Ballistic missile subs which stayed near coastal waters.
Great to know that you had spend 9 years at sea. BTW did you spend this 9 years on sea or in sea?

Anyway for a basic submariner, it is a known fact that even a typical 10 feet swell on sea surface doesn't effect the normal functioning of a submarine. Anyway launching a missile is not a normal day to day function of any submarine, but neither its away from norm. @airtel had already refuted the claim of it being a finned structure, so no point of stating that again. On other hand, you might know the fact that K4 has already been tested from 30m depth or 90 feet of depth. In other words from the depth of a 9 story building. Now at that depth even at a category 5 hurricane, sea would be relatively calm then the surface. BTW what you said about the launching is partially true. It would be a problem to launch cruise missiles in such a weather as they are launched from relatively shallow depth and from the torpedo tube. But an SLBM is launched from vertical launch tube and hence would face a lot less turbulence.
Now in an SLBM if we talk about the launching phase, at first a gas generator kicks in to lift the missile out from the silo to the surface and after that the rocket motor kicks in. Now you could say that in a swelling sea it would be a problem due to the gale force. Yes, firing a 3 ton CM at the sea surface would be a problem, but firing a 19 ton SLBM is totally another thing. The force which the rocket motor would generate is enough to break a depth of 10m for any SLBM. Moreover K4 being an IRBM has a range of 3000km. Means you don't need to be near tropic to launch it and hence would be out of the most violent of sea storm. Launching it from 2000 km away from shore would mitigate lots of turbulence.

Moreover you should know the fact that it is more China and Pakistan specific. Means we would be launching it from either Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea, Bay of Bengal or from South China Sea. Now in these regions we do have cyclones, but not have so much of turbulence like that of Pacific or Arctic. Yes A-6 with 10K+ range would be launched from Pacific and Arctic for sure and then we would solve these issues too. K15 had been a technology demonstrator for SLBM and most of the issues had been resolved with it.
 

Tarun Kumar

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Exactly my point. K-15 is not real undersea deterrent. M<ight be good for land version as lesser weight to range ratio than all other indian ballistic missiles. But as SLBM it has shortcomings.
The K15 was always meant to be a stop gap arrangement. Right now if a nuclear war happens India can hit Pakistan from K15 deployed on Arihant. However K4 has already crossed the development phase and is undergoing user trials. By the time Aridhman comes on board which is 2018, India will have deployed K4 missile. In fact india tested K4 few days back but informed no one. K4 tests have happened at regular intervals over last 1 year and it has successfully met all its development parameters. User trials should start shortly so 2018 is max by which time India will have K4 on all its nuke subs. As for K15 we are developing a new type of land attack missile called Pralay which will be similar to DF21 . All in all except for subsonic cruise missiles, India is pretty much on par with US, China and Russia as far as missiles go. Missiles is one area where DRDO have really excelled
 

airtel

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Yes i read you and many others told the same on my twitter handle. But this test shows the cap being blown off which is only used on Sea version. Land version doesnt need the cap and had different much simpler tube.

both are different versions of the same missiles ..............but none of them are pure SLBM .

these are Cruise-ballistic missile Hybrid .......ad used as a cruise missile .

since bramhos has a Limited Range so we developed this missile for Greater Range

...........................This missile has Roles Similar to Bramhos .

For Nuclear attacks we will use K-4 & k-5 Missiles .
 

safriz

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Another issue is the less than massive thrust by Indian solid fuel motors. For that reason Indian missiles including K-15 have to use boosters where no other missile of other nations uses boosters. No SLBM uses booster but K-15 does.
Likewise no Canister launched ICBM uses booster but Agni-5 does as seen in this video.

 
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Srinivas_K

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Yes True. But Brahmos has an Air Intake at the front which needs to be protected from Debris , hence the cap.
Shuria or K-4 hasnt.
here is land version which hasnt got the cap,as it is removed before launch,not after as in the naval version.

That cap in Shaurya guides it to take a turn after vertical launch. It is not to protect from debris.

Once the missile lifts off and emerges from water, the cap makes the missile turn 45 degrees and then falls off.
 

Chinmoy

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Another issue is the less than massive thrust by Indian solid fuel motors. For that reason Indian missiles including K-15 have to use boosters where no other missile of other nations uses boosters. No SLBM uses booster but K-15 does.
Likewise no Canister launched ICBM uses booster but Agni-5 does as seen in this video.

I don't know from where these experts are getting knowledge. A5 is not using a booster here. Its a gas generator. Every single SLBM and canister missile in world uses gas generator for lift off.
But seeing the tweeter handle I could imagine where they are getting this knowledge. Someone who has seldom developed any missile of their own is creating news about lift off and launch.
 

tharun

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Another issue is the less than massive thrust by Indian solid fuel motors. For that reason Indian missiles including K-15 have to use boosters where no other missile of other nations uses boosters. No SLBM uses booster but K-15 does.
Likewise no Canister launched ICBM uses booster but Agni-5 does as seen in this video.

Again moron even russian Topol-M canister missile is ejected out and get's ignited here is video
 

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