How China is building warships as India sleeps

Discussion in 'Indian Navy' started by Zarvan, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. Zarvan

    Zarvan Regular Member

    Apr 21, 2014
    Likes Received:

    Republic of China (Taiwan) intelligence says China is constructing two 60,000-tonne aircraft carriers, one each as Dalian and Shanghai. China's first carrier Liaoning (L16) underwent a seven-year rebuild at Dalian before its 2012 commissioning, so choosing that shipyard is logical. Shanghai is a surprise and suggests China intends to build these capital warships in pairs. An operational date of 2020 is suggested for both. It is possible the next pair will appear in 2025.

    India, having commissioned INS Vikrant (R11) five decades before the Chinese carrier, now will be eclipsed in five years. Currently we have INS Vikramaditya (R33), a 45,000-tonner that like China's Liaoning came from the former Soviet Union, and accepted into service in 2014. INS Virat (R22) will be decommissioned next year to be replaced on 2018 by the second Vikrant(presumably R44), which displaces 40,000-tons. INS Vishaal, 65,000-tons, is planned to commission in 2023. Since, however, it is still in planning, assuming it is rapidly put under construction, 2025 is a more likely in-service date.Right there is a problem. India proposes three carriers, one each for the eastern and western fleets, with one in maintenance/overhaul reserve. But long before we have our three, China will have three medium-sized carriers, and five when we have three. The fourth and fifth carriers may well be super-sized and nuclear-powered, in which they will likely appear later than 2025. Given the secrecy surrounding Chinese military programs, much of this is speculation. It is possibly the two carriers under construction will be larger and nuclear-power, but this is guesswork on the part of Chinese blogs.

    No one is suggesting India will launch carriers into the China seas. India may develop global ambitions when its GDP passes $10-trillion, say, by 2030. Currently, however, our goal is limited to dominating the Indian Ocean. China is already making clear its goals are global. Earlier this year its 18th Escort Task Force, after finishing anti-piracy duty off Somalia and the Gulf of Aden visited France for exercises, Britain, Germany, the Netherlands, and Greece. The task force consisted of a frigate, an LPD, and a supply ship. Currently its 19th Escort Task Force consisting one two frigates and a supply ship is on anti-piracy patrol, and it will be interesting to see if it makes any visits.

    The PLAN had a big exercise with Russia in the North Pacific. Five ships - three frigates, an LPD and a supply ship boldly popped up in the Bering Sea off Alaska for a five-day visit. They even thumbed their noses at the US by grazing American US territorial waters. It is simply a matter of time before PLAN carriers turn-up west of Guam, then west of Hawaii, and then off the US West Coast. This analyst predicts based on current information that these events will start taking place from 2025.

    For observers of India the question now becomes a simple one. With Chinese plans for a global navy now revealed, how will India react? Based on past national behaviour, it can be predicted we will NOT react. We will continue our slow, bumbling pace. At that it has to be admitted the Indian Navy at least has a plan under implementation. Inadequately, yes, too casually, yes. The Indian Air Force has a plan that is not being implemented. The Indian Army does not have a plan except on paper - and too is wildly inadequate.

    China has last week announced it is to cut military manpower by 300,000 to free resources for its navy and air force. This cut will fall on the Army, which nominally has 1.25-million troops, though this analysts believe actual strength is less. Be that as it may, the PLA reduction is hardly good news for India.

    The PLA has been moving slowly toward a force of 72 large brigades in 18 corps. At this time there are plenty of divisions still extant, mainly because the Chinese formation modernization foundered on the inability of the brigade staff to manage four maneuver and two artillery battalions plus several company-sized combat units. This analyst believes that the PLA has, or is close to, resolving these problems. The reason this is bad news for India is that the new brigades have considerably more combat capability than the divisions they replace.

    So when Chinese carriers start visiting Burma, Sri Lanka, and Pakistan, we are unlikely to be stirred into faster and coordinated action. We will remain snug in our customary lethargy. For example, the real possibility of a PLAN carrier task force on permanent station in the Indian Ocean by 2035, when China may have six operational carriers, is for us so distant that it is an unreality. The battle flags flying from Delhi signal, "No action imminent, go back to snoozing"
  3. bengalraider

    bengalraider DFI Technocrat Stars and Ambassadors

    Oct 10, 2009
    Likes Received:
    in a fast food joint next to the imperial shipyard
    What the writer does not take into account is the fact that for long Indian Naval Buildup was majorly based on just five shipbuilding yards namely
    Mazagon docks Mumbai
    Hindustan Shipyards Vizag
    Garden Reach Kolkata
    Cochin Shipyards limited
    Goa Shipyard Limited
    With the opening up of the shipbuilding sector to private shipbuilders and provided our current government pushed things into high gear we have an opportunity to add at least 8 more privately owned shipyards into the fray with more coming up.These shall help immensely to add capacity and in the production of multiple vessels simultaneously for example the two L&T yards have the capability to build two SSNs simultaneously while Pipavav shall possibly be building the next installment of Talwars together in one go.
    The Hard work on the ground has been completed however as the writer correctly states the paperwork is what is stymieing the whole situation.
    salute likes this.
  4. rohit.gr77

    rohit.gr77 Regular Member

    Feb 24, 2015
    Likes Received:
    These Chinese may be building capabilities. They may build 2, 3 or even 5 carriers by 2025, but there is a lot of difference between building a carrier and operating it. If you don't have experienced crews to man a ship as big as an aircraft carrier, then even a navy like Vietnam can defeat the Chinese carrier. India on the other hand has decades of experience and expertise in operating carriers.
  5. Nicky G

    Nicky G Senior Member Senior Member

    Nov 24, 2014
    Likes Received:
  6. sob

    sob Moderator Moderator

    May 4, 2009
    Likes Received:
    New Delhi
    Please remember building a Flat top is not the end, in fact it is just the beginning for PLAN.

    It takes years for the pilots to perfect the art of operating from the Aircraft Carriers. The whole CBG has to learn to work in unison, there are supply ships involved. Operating a CBG is a very complex operation. PLAN still is flying off the shore based simulated carrier, while our guys have been doing it for years.

    We got the INS Vikramaditya from the Baltic to India with a full complement of ships including supply ships. This may seem as very routine is a complex exercise and all the nations noted how professionally IN performed the operation.

    Contrast the Russians who have the worlds most powerful tug as a part of their CBG-- to tow their AC as it frequently breaks down mid sea.
    Alien likes this.
  7. Illusive

    Illusive Senior Member Senior Member

    Jun 20, 2010
    Likes Received:
    They are able to make lot of ships, how are they able to train so many people at the same time. It will be a challenge given the inexperience they have operating carriers. But India can't keep the pace, even if we build ships with China's pace, how are we going to attract more people at the pace required, theres already a lot of shortage of human resources in the navy.
  8. tharikiran

    tharikiran Regular Member

    Jun 11, 2009
    Likes Received:
    We don't need to match China...number to number. Once you reach a certain threshold...your enemy knows.. it can't win the war.If we look at nukes.. USA never had the numbers which Russia had. But it doesn't/didn't matter.
    Paki's can boast that they have 101 nukes to our 100 nukes..but the commanders doesn't matter.They know, we will unleash a can of whoop-ass if they try their tactical nukes.

    The gap as of now may be wide but a point will come when it becomes irrelevant as we slowly but gradually scale up our numbers.Which as we speak is happening.China may have 200 ships but we all know ..not all are new.Similar is the case of their submarines.

    The question is to be asked is, " Why does this thread title make our paki brothers happy ?"
    To that, I would say-"No one's fighting your wars pakis".You are on your own and your ports are screwed. No big brother is going to save your ports when the war starts. So, you need to worry about your Navy which is non-existent.

    Don't worry about our navy.The numbers will be there when it matters.

Share This Page