How China can upstage The US vis a vis India

[LurkerBaba]

On the contrary, status quo is suiting India just fine. It's china which is pushing around. It's china that keeps violating air space as well as its incursions on ground from time to time.

Violation of borders and continuous needling is status quo for China . They'll continue to do so or escalate as I mentioned, there is no incentive for them to stop.

It's china who feels jittery if Dalai Lama is visited by any PM/President or minister. It's china which has a problem if Dalai Lama visits Arunachal, it's china which has a problem if Indian PM visits Tawang.

Of course China will have a problem when the above happens, because from it's perspective Arunachal Pradesh is disputed territory. But that doesn't mean it's jittery and nervous.

 

[Yusuf]

Violation of borders and continuous needling is status quo for China . They'll continue to do so or escalate as I mentioned, there is no incentive for them to stop.



Of course China will have a problem when the above happens, because from it's perspective Arunachal Pradesh is disputed territory. But that doesn't mean it's jittery and nervous.

You have to realize that India too is pretty much happy with status quo. Even on Kashmir, India is happy with status quo right now with talks of making the LoC as international border. The issue is alive till China wants to keep it alive. For us, we control AP and its them who want it.

Please dont tell me they are not jittery and nervous about Tibet and Tibetans in India. The Brigadier will let you know more.

 

[Illusive]

Yusuf sir China is in a stage where if it negotiates with us will loose face. They are not willing to make water treaty on Brahmaputra with us, settling border issues is too far fetched.

Chinese will only negotiate with us if we are powerful enough to match their capabilities, military/economic/allies.

We must be aggressive in our policies, right now we lag in this department.

We should have threatened them after rejecting US plans to counter China that China's behavior is inviting US into SE Asia which is neither in the interests of China,India or Russia. So if it doesn't tone it down, the results might be catastrophic for the region and India doesn't want that to happen and the only country responsible would be China.

Or else this aggression may backfire

 

[latsar]

Its not as if China doesn't have any fault lines. First its not a democracy people are oppressed there and the problem is simmering below the surface all the time.So China has to act tough both internally as well as externally But it knows that it cant be very aggressive because it economy is totally dependent on the U.S. and the west, hence the alliance with Russia and now tries to picky back on the Russians and is trying to put a united front against the U.S. AS I have already explained in the previous post how Russians are using the Chinese for their own ends.Futher China gravely miscalculated in the resent south china sea affair ,It thought the U.S. after 10 yrs of war and in a bad economical shape it wouldn't force the issue with china. But the Americans have not fall for this bluff and have shifted their interest back Asia pacific region. This would put tremendous pressure on the Chinese because it not only going to face the American naval might but also navies of japan,south Korea,Vietnam ,the assusies.and other navies of the region .China as definitely have modernized their navy but is surely no match for the combined navies that stand against it.So it is going to be effectively pined down.If this not going make China nervous then its just lying.As far as India is concerned the Chinese strategy was to keep Pak as counterweight to India .BUT that changed after 9/11 and the Americans have come to afghan. This notion of they withdrawing in 2014 it just a myth for the American public since its the election year. Surely they would pull out a majority of their troops to bring down the dependence of Pak transit route. But the are going to have a considerable spl opp troops ,drones and air support. After spending so much on this war and having given so much of American lives they are not fools to simply get out and hand over Afghan in a platter to china.That too an important strategic location from were they have watch on two problematic countries one with nuclear weapons and other who wants to be n power. Further it would have asses to the oil rich Central Asian countries. Without Pak China doesn't have much leverage towards India . As India capacity increases ,China is going face further pressure on its Indian borders. As long as there is double digit economical growth Chinese people will keep quite but if the growth stops and it might, then there will serious pressure on the ruling communist and You can add to this the Tibetian problem and uyguir problem surely any govt would be nervous.

 

[Yusuf]

Yusuf sir China is in a stage where if it negotiates with us will loose face. They are not willing to make water treaty on Brahmaputra with us, settling border issues is too far fetched.

Chinese will only negotiate with us if we are powerful enough to match their capabilities, military/economic/allies.

We must be aggressive in our policies, right now we lag in this department.

We should have threatened them after rejecting US plans to counter China that China's behavior is inviting US into SE Asia which is neither in the interests of China,India or Russia. So if it doesn't tone it down, the results might be catastrophic for the region and India doesn't want that to happen and the only country responsible would be China.

Or else this aggression may backfire

China cannot go to war as well as it will get a bloody nose. a successful defence for India is a victory and a loss for China. Nothing but an overwhelming win will do for China in a war. But then no matter how powerful China gets, it will not be able to do that to India.

India will always remain opposed to China. 10-15 years down the line with a more powerful economy and military, India will be able to trouble china a lot more. India will certainly form some kind of alliance with other countries including the US directed against China even though we are shy of openly doing so an declaring it right now.

 

[natarajan]

China has been actively engaged in back-stabbing India for more than 50 years thru Pak.

India will never forget that. if India does forget that - then it deserves everything ounce of shit it gets from China.

While the relationship with the US has been up and down on policy disputes, cold war allies, etc.- The US did not actively engage in a policy of pinning down India thru the terrorist Pak State like China.

Fundamentally that is the key difference - there is zero chance of China and India ever becoming allies in any "real sense".

what about your aid ,f16 fighters ,harpoon missiles and frigates

 

[latsar]

First we have to understand that India now is not India of 1962 .That time what Chinese did and got away with is partly because of lousy Nehru policies. This time India is a much deferent ball game the Chinese are not foolish to get into a full fledged war with India knowing very well that would make India fall right into U.S. alliance instead of the present India's indigene foreign policy. What India policy should be now is to be more assertive towards china whether its the border incursion or be it a naval base in srilanka ,India should may it clear that it would not tolerate any kind of Chinese activity near Indian periphery instead of bending backwards pleasing the Chinese .

 

[latsar]

Its independent foreign policy above

 

[no smoking]

China can cancel what it wants, but it cannot cancel what India's stand on the issue.

What India can do, is something that is to be seen.

Unless, india can pull a rabbit from the hat! There is nothing more india can do!

China must be more wary over the Tibetans, Uighurs and the Inner Mongolians.

And at a later stage some more people near the Vietnam border.

According to our indian friends, there is nothing that China should not worry?

Well, China does worry about some of them, just as much as a man worries about his shoes. A problem? Yes! A big problem? NO!

 

[SPIEZ]

Wow, India is enticing China into giving up a lot by virtually offering nothing in return. No matter by "suzerainty" or "sovereignty" China already has a de facto rule over Tibet recognized worldwide; Without India's help China would continue doing what's necessary for Uygur; And direct route? China already has got Pakistan.

Indeed, India has nothing to offer. Or a counter-weight to China for US? That China has got used to. Weaning India away from the US? That's delusional. India would continue to play one against the other. Partnering with India to create a peaceful and prosperous Asia? No, China would be more comfortable without India.

That is enough to shut up many China sympathizers in India.

It is also a sign that India must be aggressive both in both military and economy.

But then why would China which has no interest in India, offer India a role in SCO? Seems really stupid.

 

[aerokan]

That is enough to shut up many China sympathizers in India.

It is also a sign that India must be aggressive both in both military and economy.

But then why would China which has no interest in India, offer India a role in SCO? Seems really stupid.

China did not offer any SCO full membership. If in the future, it does, it will only do it to bring pakistan into it. Don't forget that it was russia rooting strongly for Indian inclusion and China trying it's best to delay it. They will keep that card and use it at a time when things are not going in their favor or just to get out of a critical situation.

There is no other way for us. We have to be more assertive militarily and economically as u observed. No other way around the block!!

 

[SPIEZ]

China did not offer any SCO full membership. If in the future, it does, it will only do it to bring pakistan into it. Don't forget that it was russia rooting strongly for Indian inclusion and China trying it's best to delay it. They will keep that card and use it at a time when things are not going in their favor or just to get out of a critical situation.

There is no other way for us. We have to be more assertive militarily and economically as u observed. No other way around the block!!

I did not talk about the full membership. On the other hand, China too has been wooing us with a part time/observer status at the SCO