How China Betrays Pakistan using empty sloganeering

[mki]

Pakistani army/establishment cant issue threats coz they sold themselves to china/usa but pakistani people and mujahids can threaten coz they are real muslims.
If pakistan's allies allow it to go down then they 'll go down with pakistan too.Pakistan wont hesitate to use nuke if it goes down.be it india or usa or china.

agree with statement which i havent made bold letters...
with the statement which i made bold... simply........

 

[amoy]

@Atjr u're of course entitled to your opinion of "sloganeering" or "betrayal". The cold fact is China will have to deal with Pakistan through her politicians and military, however "corrupt" they can be （your in-house affairs). There is very limited people-to-people interactions btwn Chinese and ordinary Pakistanis (the same goes with Indians). IMO as time goes by Sino-PAK relationship has taken on far more dimensions than containment of India. Such a "mountain-high ocean-deep" friendship which's never based on "ideology" or "religion" will be further enhanced to tackle challenges in a changing world.

As for that Muslim bhai-bhai of Uigur + Pakistani (Taliban) it's only in your fantasy. At a state level they're also enemies of Pakistan as well. That's no sheer "sloganeering". Many Chinese are more attuned to "über alles Vaterland" than to any ummar , mulla or lama, unlike Pakistanis or Indians.

 

[sob]

Amoy, In parts I agree with you. China has to see it's own interests first rather than blindly support Pakistan. This I also witnessed during a visit to Shanghai for an exhibition, just before the Olympics, almsot 80-90 % of Pakistani's were refused visa to visit China whereas I did not hear any such thing from Indian visitors.

 

[Ray]

Amoy, In parts I agree with you. China has to see it's own interests first rather than blindly support Pakistan. This I also witnessed during a visit to Shanghai for an exhibition, just before the Olympics, almsot 80-90 % of Pakistani's were refused visa to visit China whereas I did not hear any such thing from Indian visitors.

China had good reasons.

The Uighurs had planned to sabotage the Olympics and one did not know who from Pakistan would be coming and what was his intentions and equation with the Uighurs being co religionists in the pan Islamic mood that is the signature in Pakistan.

China puts its own interest first and above everything else - always and every time.

 

[sob]

Exactly Sir, Pakistan has to realise that China is not going to act against it's own interests. If the news going around is 50% accurate then Chinese economy is also feeling the pinch as the rest of the world. At this stage they will not jeopardize their relations with a country with whom the annual trade may reach US $ 100 Billion.

 

[Vishwarupa]

what ever the argument is, for me pakis should be screwed by chinese & in return chinese money should be looted by pakis. All in all its a whore business nothing else, both have ocean deep & sky high love towards each other.

India should not interfere in this

 

[agentperry]

im not intrested in knowing china betrayed pakistan or not- if they or even if pakistan is not happy with them as of now, where they are going to run now? ab kis ke pass jaenge?? where they are going to take their begging bowl?
the only nation who is providing weapons free of cost or at deferred payment is china and if they too get offended and leave pakistan then with present state of economy and political setup they might not be able to modernize their forces on time and will eventually lose this rat race of weaponization of S.Asia.

imagining pakistan having all these j-7 and f-16s(not sure of their air worthiness as the anti-usa nation may not get spares after withdrawal) and bunch of small ships.

junk forces with the forces will finally keep a fullstop to BS from pakland fanboys

 

[Tronic]

IMO as time goes by Sino-PAK relationship has taken on far more dimensions than containment of India. Such a "mountain-high ocean-deep" friendship which's never based on "ideology" or "religion" will be further enhanced to tackle challenges in a changing world.

You do realize that you are contradicting yourself?

You yourself agree that Pak-China "friendship" is not based on "ideology". Neither is this any significant "business" partnership. And you than claim that this relationship goes beyond containment of India. Please define what this 'beyond' is, I'm not able to see it!

The simple fact is, the day India and China resolve their border issues, that is the day Pakistan will disappear off the radar of China.

 

[amoy]

You do realize that you are contradicting yourself?

You yourself agree that Pak-China "friendship" is not based on "ideology". Neither is this any significant "business" partnership. And you than claim that this relationship goes beyond containment of India. Please define what this 'beyond' is, I'm not able to see it!

The simple fact is, the day India and China resolve their border issues, that is the day Pakistan will disappear off the radar of China.

Afghanistan, for one, where China and Pakistan collaborate. And its hopeless for India and China to resolve the border dispute as nobody wants to give up their pound of flesh.

 

[Tronic]

Afghanistan, for one, where China and Pakistan collaborate. And its hopeless for India and China to resolve the border dispute as nobody wants to give up their pound of flesh.

The only way for China and Pakistan to collaborate on Afghanistan is if China too has decided to support the Afghan Taliban, the Haqqani network, and Hezb-e-Islami!

As for the border dispute, with the way India-China trade is increasing, it may just become less of an issue over time. Even the US and Canada have a border dispute, but their close trade and business partnership has turned the issue into a small insignificant one. I guess it's true, money is king!

 

[SADAKHUSH]

Afghanistan, for one, where China and Pakistan collaborate. And its hopeless for India and China to resolve the border dispute as nobody wants to give up their pound of flesh.

In your dreams. You need to speak directly to Afghanistan nationals and than you can state "Where China and Afghanistan Collaborate". Can you specifically tell us where you are collaborating? As far as I know from my interaction with Afghan nationals living in Canada they do not want any thing to do with Pakistan help. It is easy to make a statement that you have written in your post. If we were to accept your assertion to be right why is city of Karachi burning due to the communal violence? They have refugees from Afghanistan living there.

The leadership in Pakistan somehow thinks they can dictate to Afghanistan Government and her citizens while at the same time make a statement that no foreign power has been able to control Afghanistan in the history of this nation.

 

[amoy]

China's co-operation with Pakistan over Afghanistan dated back to the cold war era in support of Mujahideen against Soviet. Now even the US encourages Karzai to nego with the Satan Taliban, which is a force to reckon with inescapably in their "peace process".

China and PAK alliance is a must, not an option. Crystal clear after reading such as >> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...37627-why-india-crucial-usa-asia-pacific.html

 

[Energon]

I don't fault Chinese banks for abandoning large projects in Pakistan. I don't think this has anything to do with treachery but rather the fact that Pakistan's instability makes it a very risky venture. Pakistanis constantly cry foul about US abandonment, but people forget that until 1965 the US had made massive investments into Pakistan; it's just that Pakistan's martial misadventures resulted in it it's own collapse from which they never recovered. Why should anyone invest money knowing well that it is not going to bear returns?

Having said that the Chinese government desperately needs to keep Pakistan happy because this is after all a highly troubled nuclear state on their border and keeping Pakistan a happy client state is the best way to mitigate the metastasis of Islamic fundamentalism in the xinjiang province.

In the long run I can bet that this relationship too will end up in a disaster. If they think the American influence is dysfunctional wait till the $hit hits the fan with China a few decades from now. Pakistan's idea of expecting "equality" as a vassal state is delusional. No matter what, the host state always ends up being a "master" and not a "friend". 30 years from now Pakistani internet warriors all over the world will be tapping furiously at their keyboards re writing the same posts we see today by replacing "evil America" with "godless China."

 

[Tronic]

China's co-operation with Pakistan over Afghanistan dated back to the cold war era in support of Mujahideen against Soviet. Now even the US encourages Karzai to nego with the Satan Taliban, which is a force to reckon with inescapably in their "peace process".

You don't know a thing about the Afghan war.

China and PAK alliance is a must, not an option. Crystal clear after reading such as >> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...37627-why-india-crucial-usa-asia-pacific.html

It only shows that you were lying through your teeth with your statement that China-Pakistan "friendship" goes beyond India. It clearly doesn't. Your motive behind attempting to appear benevolent to the Pakistanis needs no translation. It has always been the same, China will fight India down to the last Pakistani!

 

[ice berg]

Ignorance is a bliss.

Pakistan is vital for security in Xinjiang. She also connects China to the Arab countries and the rest of the Islamic world.

To claim that Pakistan-China relationship is only about India is just as shortsighted as to claim that India-US relationship is only about containment of China.

It may have started like this. But the relationship today is far beyond that. Only some die hard pundits will claim otherwise.

 

[Ray]

Ignorance is a bliss.

Pakistan is vital for security in Xinjiang. She also connects China to the Arab countries and the rest of the Islamic world.

To claim that Pakistan-China relationship is only about India is just as shortsighted as to claim that India-US relationship is only about containment of China.

It may have started like this. But the relationship today is far beyond that. Only some die hard pundits will claim otherwise.

Ignorance is Bliss.

You exemplify the same.

Arabs think very lowly of Pakistanis.

Visit Arab lands and see how they are treated.

Pakistan is a nation that wants to be Arabs, but the Arabs scorn at the very idea.

Pakistan is no link to anyone.

Chinese links to the Arab world is on their own, in the economic and political realms.

India has very little to do with the US in real terms. US has much since it is a big market.

But where the US India relationship really warms up is a common goal - keep China within its borders and not pursue her hegemonic dreams of gobbling up Asiatic neighbours!

 

[Ray]

China's co-operation with Pakistan over Afghanistan dated back to the cold war era in support of Mujahideen against Soviet. Now even the US encourages Karzai to nego with the Satan Taliban, which is a force to reckon with inescapably in their "peace process".

China did help the Taliban as is known the world over inspite of her professed pious claim that 'China does not interfere in the internal affairs of a country'.

China has to keep Pakistan happy even if they subvert Xinjaing.

It has to contain India from 'interfering' in China hegemonic dreams in Asia!

 

[Tronic]

Ignorance is a bliss.

Pakistan is vital for security in Xinjiang. She also connects China to the Arab countries and the rest of the Islamic world.

Ignorance is indeed a bliss. Pakistan doesn't border any Arab countries.

And if by that you meant, be a viable gateway for supply from the Indian Ocean, than your country has already shown that it does not consider Pakistan to be a stable route, the way the Gwadar port has been tossed around. Now the latest news is that even Singapore (who China sold the port project to) doesn't want it!

As for Xinjiang, ofcourse that's another Chinese demand, but with Pakistan playing host to the Afghan Taliban, Haqqanis, Hezb-i-Islami, which no doubt includes their Turkish brothers to the North, it's about time to see this aspect of the relationship unfold aswell.

To claim that Pakistan-China relationship is only about India is just as shortsighted as to claim that India-US relationship is only about containment of China.

India and US are both democracies, both have the same issues with global terrorism, and both are aligned closer ideologically. Pakistan and China share none of the same aspects which the US and India share. That being said, and considering the fact that the US and India don't see eye-to-eye on majority of world issues (India only votes the same as the US in the UN only 33% of the time), we do both share the same rival in China, so yes, the India-US relationship has a lot to do with China.

It may have started like this. But the relationship today is far beyond that. Only some die hard pundits will claim otherwise.

Well, you have yet to prove those "die hard pundits" wrong.

 

[SLASH]

Having good relations with pakistan is bad investment for China. They should strive for good relations with India and thus secure their trade route through the Indian ocean. Have our Chinese forumers seen the distance from Gwadar to South-East China? How can anyone think of using road or rail transport over such long distances? What is the point?

 

[ice berg]

Ignorance is indeed a bliss. Pakistan doesn't border any Arab countries.

And if by that you meant, be a viable gateway for supply from the Indian Ocean, than your country has already shown that it does not consider Pakistan to be a stable route, the way the Gwadar port has been tossed around. Now the latest news is that even Singapore (who China sold the port project to) doesn't want it!

No kidding, Sherlock. You do have the habit of stating the obvious. Does connecting always got to do with border?

For instance, after the Urumqi riots in 2009, Pakistani government made great efforts in explaining to the rest of the Islamic world the Chinese viewpoint on the riots.

As for Xinjiang, ofcourse that's another Chinese demand, but with Pakistan playing host to the Afghan Taliban, Haqqanis, Hezb-i-Islami, which no doubt includes their Turkish brothers to the North, it's about time to see this aspect of the relationship unfold aswell.

And what you think will happend if they close both eyes instead of turning a blind eye?


India and US are both democracies, both have the same issues with global terrorism, and both are aligned closer ideologically. Pakistan and China share none of the same aspects which the US and India share. That being said, and considering the fact that the US and India don't see eye-to-eye on majority of world issues (India only votes the same as the US in the UN only 33% of the time), we do both share the same rival in China, so yes, the India-US relationship has a lot to do with China.

And your point been? I said that India-US relationship is not only about China. Just as China-Pakistan relationship is not only about India.



Well, you have yet to prove those "die hard pundits" wrong.

I dont need to prove anything. Both US and China are still supporting Pakistan. If you choose to see it only as bulwark against India, that is your problem.
For me, stability and foothold in South Asia is just as important.
For China, to be seen friendly with a muslim country is not half bad either.