How America supports Pakistan

[DaRk WaVe]

Will Pakistan be satisified with this?? I mean Pakistan always asked for Drones with capabilty to fire missiles and liquidate targets! Thats what they want, but thats something they are not getting. I am sure Americans are giving Pakistanis technology which is outdated, because they hell as know the Chinese are around to snoop, so we can be rest assured the Americans are sure of the Scan eagle being sent to China wont make a difference.

We all know US is not giving us Drones with Hell Fires in any way, It is not for satisfaction, Pakistan 'wanted' this UAV, not something that was been offered
for armed UAVs, do read articles below

Pakistan using UAVs in 'drone war' against terrorist elements

Robert Hewson Jane's Air-Launched Weapons Editor - London

Pakistan has quietly been conducting its own 'drone war' against militant forces and terrorist elements using Selex-Galileo Falco tactical unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), Jane's has learned.

According to a number of industry officials who have been in Pakistan and experienced UAV operations there, the Pakistani military is using unarmed Falcos for traditional surveillance tasks but also in a 'hunter' role - targeting air strikes, providing real-time coverage of attacks and then delivering battle damage assessments.

Selex-Galileo has declined to identify the single nation currently flying the Falco in front-line operations but that customer is known to be Pakistan, with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) chief Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mahmood Ahmed having told Jane's in November that the PAF would begin using the Falco in live operations by the start of 2009.

Pakistan has ordered five Falco systems, each comprising four air vehicles plus one spare and a ground control system (GCS). Two complete systems are now in service, two more are working up to deployment and one has just been delivered.

The Falcos are flying intensively, as noted by one source who told Jane's : "The customer is using more than one system every single day."

The Falcos have operated in several regions of concern to the Pakistan government, including the mountainous Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) along the Afghan border. This was alluded to by an official who noted that the Falco's hot-and-high capabilities had been proven in operations "from airfields at 1,000 m altitude in circumstances identical to Afghanistan".

"The Falcos have two basic missions," said one programme source: "surveillance of critical areas - and there are a lot of them - and operations as part of a manned and unmanned mixed fleet, in combat.

"Surveillance means identifying and tracking critical targets like convoys or 'terrorist establishments'. In hunter operations the Falco goes out looking for targets, identifies them and relays their position to the command and control centre, where priority-one targets are allocated for attack by fast jets.

"The sensor system is world-beating and can easily ID an individual person from the appropriate altitude. The target handover is done through the GCS to the military's C4I system, and it's done quickly - sometimes less than 20 minutes, sometimes less than 10.

"When the attack is inbound the Falco will climb and loiter at a higher altitude. It can provide a real-time view of the attack, although that's over in seconds, and then do an immediate damage assessment. I have witnessed several of these operations. It's not being done on paper; these are real missions."

Selex-Galileo says that, despite customer interest, it has no ambitions to develop an armed Falco for export. An armed variant could materialise if a requirement emerged in its domestic markets (Italy and the UK) but the company believes that having a weapon capability would exclude the Falco from several potential markets elsewhere. "You start to encounter Missile Technology Control Regime regulations and other limitations," said one official.

The current air vehicle has a limited payload and would be restricted to two 30 kg-class weapons - although this would double in planned growth versions of the Falco. Selex-Galileo notes an interest in the Thales Lightweight Multirole Missile (LMM) as a theoretical future weapon option.

The Falco XN - the variant currently in service - has a 420 kg maximum take-off weight (MTOW) with a 70 kg sensor payload. Endurance lasts from eight to 14 hours and the UAV has a datalinked range of 200 km.

Selex-Galileo has now developed the Falco Evo (Evolution) upgrade, which can be retrofitted to existing Falcos. The Evo adds longer wings and tailbooms, increasing MTOW to 750 kg with a 120 kg payload. Endurance is increased to a maximum of 18 hours and the Evo can exceed the XN's 6000 m altitude limit.

Selex-Galileo is building four Falco Evo prototypes, with first flight scheduled for the second quarter of 2010. The company believes that its existing customer is a strong sales prospect for the Evo and it hopes to double or even triple the installed Falco fleet there.

Pakistan moves to drone independence​

QUETTA, Pakistan - Having already gained experience and guidance from the United States on the effective use of drones, Pakistan is working on its own Predator-like unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), which have helped revolutionize warfare.

The growth of Pakistan's indigenous UAV industry is of great importance for the country's defense, as the nation is on the front line of the "war on terror".

State-owned defense enterprise Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in Kamra, east of the capital, Islamabad, is engaged in


manufacturing Falco pilotless planes in collaboration with Selex Galileo of Italy. Initially, the Falco system is for aerial reconnaissance and information gathering. The country later plans to induct UAVs equipped with weapon systems to carry out offensive operations.

These high-tech efforts come as the country's defense expenditure is expected to exceed the budgetary allocation of 343 billion rupees (US$4 billion) by about 20% during the fiscal year ending next June, because of military operations against militants in North-West Frontier Province.

Local analysts believe that production of surveillance drones is the first step and that by modifying existing UAVs the country can eventually achieve its ultimate goal of producing drones equipped with missiles. The US is already using such weapons against Islamist extremists in the country's tribal areas along the Afghanistan border.

Rebuffed for security reasons in its efforts to buy UAVs from the US, Pakistan instead bought unarmed Falco reconnaissance drones from Italy, according to a report published in Los Angeles Times in October. Pakistan has not stopped trying to acquire drones from the US, but has decided to begin making its own. The report claimed that Pakistani technicians at Kamra are still in training and several months away from beginning to manufacture them.

The Falcos produced in Pakistan, like the Italian-made aircraft, won't have strike capability or be able to fly nearly as far as the US's Predator and Reaper drones, the LA Times report said, citing Lieutenant Colonel Gohar Majeed, who is helping lead drone production at the PAC.

Pakistan's armed forces are at war with Pakistani Taliban insurgents in the country's northwest and are working with American drones. The drones' capabilities are being put at the disposal of the Pakistani forces, giving them experience in the effective use of the machines and their successful deployment.

Burraq is the country's latest domestically produced UAV, is based on the Falco-Selex Galileo technology and is believed to be intended as the Pakistan's main equivalent to the American Predator.


"PAC engineers have been working on the first UAV project of the country for two years," according to a report published on the aviation industry Flightglobal website in August. Pakistan is also reported to be flight-testing the Burraq, named for a winged-horse type creature in Islamic tradition. The Burraq is to be equipped with National Engineering and Scientific Commission (or NESCom) designed laser designator and laser-guided missiles. Unlike the Falco, Burraq will be able to attack and destroy targets.

Pakistan has now virtually become a member of the club of countries manufacturing drones. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) desperately needs UAVs capable of firing at targeted militants.

The Falco, with an autonomous navigation and control system, has a standard control link range of 200 kilometers and is capable of short take-offs from semi-prepared airstrips. Among its prominent features are automatic take-off and landing, fully redundant and fault-tolerant control systems and near-real-time target image processing.

Selex Galileo has test flown a Falco at the company's UAV test facility at ParcAberporth in west Wales in the UK. The vehicle was equipped with the active electronically scanned array PicoSAR and an infrared sensor. The high-resolution SAR (synthetic-aperture radar) makes the radar particularly useful for detecting disturbances in ground surface.

Pakistan's aviation firms have been involved in manufacturing small drones for years. Integrated Dynamics (ID), a local firm has been producing smaller UAVs for the government and commercial market for the last 12 years. Other private enterprises, including Surveillance & Target Unmanned Aircraft (Satuma) and East West Infiniti (EWI), have been involved in manufacturing UAVs in the country. State-owned aviation firms which produce UAVs include the Air Weapons Complex (AWC), National Development Complex (NDC) and PAC.

Some analysts believe that Pakistan is manufacturing the latest UAVs with the help of Turkey and China. The new Uqaab UAV is believed to have been developed with the help of Turkey. In March 2008, Pakistan announced the successful completion of flight tests of Uqaab, which appears similar to the US Army RQ-7B Shadow 200. Equipped with a night vision camera, the US Shadow 200 UAV has the capability to fly as high as 15,000 feet and stay 5.5 hours in the air.

China has helped Pakistan in strengthening its defenses, particularly the aviation industry. Beijing extended support in designing a fighter aircraft, the JF-17 Thunder, to meet Pakistan's specific defense needs, besides helping to set up aircraft production facilities in the country.

The first production JF-17 Thunder produced in Kamra was last month handed over to PAF. The light-weight, all-weather aircraft has the capability to carry short as well as long-range air-to-air missiles and its integrated avionics made it capable for fighting in the air for a longer period.

Pakistan plans also to acquire four airborne warning and control system (AWACS) aircraft from China.

In the current fiscal year, Pakistan's defense expenditures are estimated to be somewhere between 400 billion and 410 billion rupees, up by about 70 billion rupees on the 343 billion rupee allocation. Last year, the allocated amount of 296 billion rupees was twice revised upwards to 329 billion rupees, to be 11% over the budget estimates.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KL03Df03.html

 

[ahmedsid]

hmmmmm So Pakistan plans to inculcate tech from this onto their Own Armed Drone tech if I am not mistaken right??? But wont America mind this?? I mean they wont want Paks to make an armed UAV for sure! Would they give such a tech to pakistan, knowingly so that it may help the Pak indigenouse their own Predator equivalent? Doubtful actually, but then with the Americans you never know!

Lastly, Does these UAVs come with the End user verification and those Inspections and stuff? I mean will the Pak engineers just be able to take one of these off and study them bringing in their Chinese friends, or will Uncle Sams eyes be hovering above?? Just a thought.

 

[anoop_mig25]

i can`t understand why US is so gracious in supplying militray hardware to pakistan which in future is going to be used against india (i am talking about ScanEagle Unmanned Aerial System which is being given to pakistan in the name of fight against WOT by the way is it free or GoP is going to pay 4 it or GoUSA is going to pay ).plus its not question of old or new technology but that of quantity. this can be use in peace times 4 spying purpose.Any way i think Pakistan is milking US government in name of WoT.As everbody knows once usa IS out of afganistan ther will be a pro-pakistan government

 

[DaRk WaVe]

hmmmmm So Pakistan plans to inculcate tech from this onto their Own Armed Drone tech if I am not mistaken right??? But wont America mind this?? I mean they wont want Paks to make an armed UAV for sure! Would they give such a tech to pakistan, knowingly so that it may help the Pak indigenouse their own Predator equivalent? Doubtful actually, but then with the Americans you never know!

Lastly, Does these UAVs come with the End user verification and those Inspections and stuff? I mean will the Pak engineers just be able to take one of these off and study them bringing in their Chinese friends, or will Uncle Sams eyes be hovering above?? Just a thought.

I don't understand how we are going to 'inculnate' tech from Scan Eagle into our Armed Drones, LOL
Americans, Well, for a moment forget America India will mind it for sure, They are not minding our Nuclear weapons & you are talking about Scan Eagle

US accepts Pakistan as a declared nuclear state

WASHINGTON: The Obama administration has implicitly accepted Pakistan’s status as a declared nuclear weapons state, countering conspiracy theories that the United States is secretly plotting to seize the country’s nuclear assets, says a US media report.

Another media report says that President Barack Obama plans to host talks between Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh next month when they will be in Washington on April 12 for a nuclear security summit.

David Ignatius, a Washington Post associate editor, wrote in his newspaper on Thursday that the Obama administration had recently taken several steps to address Pakistani security concerns.

“One is to implicitly accept Pakistan’s status as a declared nuclear weapons state and thereby counter conspiracy theories that the United States is secretly plotting to seize Pakistani nukes.”

Mr Ignatius wrote that President “Obama made an early move in that direction when he told Pakistan’s Dawn newspaper last June, ‘I have confidence that the Pakistani government has safeguarded its nuclear arsenal. It’s Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal’.”

While this move aims at allaying Pakistan’s fears that the United States may secretly try to undermine its nuclear programme, the hosting of talks with India reflects the US belief that improved relations between India and Pakistan will benefit the war against terror.

Diplomatic observers in Washington, however, say that since the Pakistani and Indian prime ministers will be meeting against the backdrop of the nuclear summit, “it is only natural that they will also discuss nuclear issues”.

Both India and the United States have expressed concern that any further deterioration in Pakistan could allow non-state actors to seize nuclear weapons.

Pakistan dismisses such concerns as unfounded and has urged the United States to offer it a nuclear deal like the one it concluded with India in 2008.

Maleeha Lodhi, Pakistan’s former ambassador to US, said that America’s ‘explicit recognition’ could be useful “only if stops such propaganda otherwise Pakistan is already a nuclear weapons state, with or without America’s recognition”.

She suggested that instead of stopping at the recognition, the Obama administration should negotiate a nuclear deal with Pakistan, as it did with India.

Last month, a US scholar wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal, backing this demand. “More so than conventional weapons or large sums of cash, a conditions-based civilian nuclear deal may be able to diminish Pakistani fears of US intentions while allowing Washington to leverage these gains for greater Pakistani cooperation on nuclear proliferation and terrorism,” wrote C. Christine Fair, an assistant professor at Georgetown University.

The US media links new US efforts to improve ties with Pakistan to progress in anti-terror war, resulting in arrest of several Taliban leaders since late last month.

Until recently, the US-Pakistan alliance against terror has been marked by mutual distrust and lack of confidence in each other, with American officials often claiming that Islamabad has retained its links to the Taliban to use them as a back-up to counter Indian influence in Afghanistan after the US and Nato forces withdraw.

On Friday, Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen told reporters at Forth Leavenworth’s army college that the United States had to continue to work at restoring trust among the Pakistanis after tensions caused by sanctions placed on the nation in the 1990s.

“If you don’t trust each other we’re not going to work together well,” he said.

Pakistan’s ambassador Husain Haqqani, after his meeting with Admiral Mullen, said the two nations were cooperating and had mutual interests in defeating the extremists, but relations would not be perfect with the United States just because of battlefield successes.

Mr Ignatius wrote that the US was also trying to combat Islamabad’s fears about covert US military or intelligence activities inside Pakistan.

“Ambassador Husain Haqqani has been negotiating measures for greater transparency, such as clearer labelling of official cargo. And the administration has repeated Mr Obama’s assurance last June (in his interview to Dawn) that “we have no intention of sending US troops into Pakistan,” wrote the Post’s associate editor.

The US media, however, noted that both sides still had some worries. The Pakistanis were now concerned that the United States might negotiate a peace deal with the Afghan Taliban that cut them out as an intermediary.

“In reconciliation talks, Pakistan must have a seat at the table,” said one Pakistani official. We should all be so lucky if this proves to be the biggest problem.

First you Indians been declaring it a worthless piece of crap & now they you worried about it landing in Hands of Chinese, It ain't that a F-35, only thing is we don't have any UAV in class of Scan Eagle so we are going for it, Simple as that

i can`t understand why US is so gracious in supplying militray hardware to pakistan which in future is going to be used against india (i am talking about ScanEagle Unmanned Aerial System which is being given to pakistan in the name of fight against WOT by the way is it free or GoP is going to pay 4 it or GoUSA is going to pay ).plus its not question of old or new technology but that of quantity. this can be use in peace times 4 spying purpose.Any way i think Pakistan is milking US government in name of WoT

They know AIM-120Cs & AIM-9s are not for Taliban Air Force, Last Time i heard that Americans knew 'exactly' the use of AIM-120Cs, AIM-9, Frigates & P-3C Orions
we don't have a label, 'Not For Use Against India - Uncle Sam', on these weapons

.As everbody knows once usa IS out of afganistan ther will be a pro-pakistan government

& we know you are trying hard that there isn't any Pro-Pak Gov in Afghanistan

 

[ahmedsid]

EmoGirl Look, You based your Buraq on the Falco, and the Scan eagle has increased pay load and all, it can carry around more, which can be used in your armed drone research or something, i.e If it really can be, I am no expert I agree. You should read your highlighted part in the article you posted above, I came to my conclusions based on that!!

Yeah, India will make noises, we very well know these stuff are harmless, but we still will make noises, because we just like doing it! Same as you guys keep telling we are a threat and that your armed forces are India centric! We never told our forces are Pak centric, and even if we did, we are lying, because you dont need one of the worlds largest standing armies, and air forces and Navy to beat the crap out of Pakistan!!!!

Yeah, I shudder to think of a Pro Pak Govt in Afghanistan, because that means, while Girls like you are safely typing away in Pakistan and elsewhere, the Girls in Afghanistan will be tied to the house and killed off mercilessly if they step out of their home in search of food! Yes, we know how well you treated the Taliban, and how well they are treating you guys now!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

EmoGirl Look, You based your Buraq on the Falco, and the Scan eagle has increased pay load and all, it can carry around more, which can be used in your armed drone research or something, i.e If it really can be, I am no expert I agree. You should read your highlighted part in the article you posted above, I came to my conclusions based on that!!

Buraq is based on Falco, Yes, but how the hell has Scan Eagle Tech has increased pay load, You need ti understand that Falco & Scan Eagle are two Different types of UAVs & are no way comparable, you can see their specifications, US will be no one to 'object' on it, This argument is absurd

Falco Specifications
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/falco-uav/specs.html

ScanEagle Specifications

Max Takeoff Weight 37.9 lb / 18 kg
Payload 13.2 lb / 6 kg
Endurance 20+ hours
Service Ceiling 16400 ft / 5000 m
Max Level Speed 70 knots / 36 m/s
Cruise Speed 49 knots / 25 m/s
Wing Span 10.2 ft / 3.1 m
Fuselage Diameter 7.0 in / 0.2 m
Length 3.9 ft / 1.2 m
Camera Range 100+ km

Yeah, India will make noises, we very well know these stuff are harmless, but we still will make noises, because we just like doing it! Same as you guys keep telling we are a threat and that your armed forces are India centric! We never told our forces are Pak centric, and even if we did, we are lying, because you dont need one of the worlds largest standing armies, and air forces and Navy to beat the crap out of Pakistan!!!!

Did i ever said that Pakistan has 'conventional military superiority, there is a thing called 'deterrence' & we are all familiar with it, You can make noise, We are no one to stop you & to be honest we cannot stop you, As for threat perception, the main Threat to our security remains India & our armed forces will remain India Centric as repeatedly said by our COAS

Yeah, I shudder to think of a Pro Pak Govt in Afghanistan, because that means, while Girls like you are safely typing away in Pakistan and elsewhere, the Girls in Afghanistan will be tied to the house and killed off mercilessly if they step out of their home in search of food! Yes, we know how well you treated the Taliban, and how well they are treating you guys now!

I don't know why its hurting you that a Pakistani Girl is standing upto you
but your assumption is absolutely ABSURD & WRONG, Pro Pak Gov in Afghanistan does not mean Rule of Taliban, We have captured the 2nd in Command of Afghan Taliban & shadow Taliban Governors, This proves that we indeed going for Afghan Taliban after literally annihilating TTP & success stories are coming (Infact i haven't seen any thread or news related to high ranking taliban militants arrest here) so this theory of Pak Using Afghan Taliban as a Proxy for setting up a Pro-Pak Gov in Afghanistan is debunked by the 'events', that have taken place in last few months

Thanks

 

[ahmedsid]

I dont mind a Pakistani girl standing upto me, or for that matter any girl, in All honesty!!! Yes I dont know much about UAVs and I admitted that before, and thanks for the links.

About Afghanistan, well a Pro Pak govt basicaly means a Govt headed by the "moderates" in Taliban. You guys still harp on about good talib and bad talib, thats whats got me worked up. We all know these guys are lady killing freaks. Yes Pakistan is fighting the Taliban, and its because the Good taliban turned bad overnight when Pakistan backstabbed them fearing Uncle Sams wrath!!! Isnt it?? When you enjoy the freedom you have, spare some time for the women folks across the border in the land controlled by those animals called taliban!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I dont mind a Pakistani girl standing upto me, or for that matter any girl, in All honesty!!! Yes I dont know much about UAVs and I admitted that before, and thanks for the links.

About Afghanistan, well a Pro Pak govt basicaly means a Govt headed by the "moderates" in Taliban. You guys still harp on about good talib and bad talib, thats whats got me worked up. We all know these guys are lady killing freaks. Yes Pakistan is fighting the Taliban, and its because the Good taliban turned bad overnight when Pakistan backstabbed them fearing Uncle Sams wrath!!! Isnt it?? When you enjoy the freedom you have, spare some time for the women folks across the border in the land controlled by those animals called taliban!

WRONG, Pakistan has first made sure that is has annihilated the TTP, Uncle Sam know they can't do anything in Afgh without us & India is trying to take the role of Pakistan, as for good Taliban & bad Taliban, that theory some what exists in minds of some Pakistanis but it don't exists in my mind & in the mind of GoP, we are going for Afghan Taliban & WE have caught the 'significant' leader of Afghan Taliban, so there is no reason left for you to say that Theory of Good or bad Taliban exists within minds of our Top Brass, even NATO & Pak has exchanged Tactical Plans
Recent success of ' Operation Mustarik' plus the other break troughs are a clear sign that we are moving towards annihilation of Taliban (Good or Bad)

as for women folk, Sorry to say but this 'discrimination' exists every where, first me & YOU must think about the women at our own homes, We know you are all worried about Afghanis, WE KNOW IT

BTW we are Off Topic

 

[LETHALFORCE]

well no Pakistani is expressing dislike at least not here
the comments you made are 'uncalled for', at least you could have spent 5 mins on Google to see what exactly this system is
It is no way a worthless piece of crap nor it is been used for weather data collection(there is difference between Scan Eagle & Sea Scan)

I know this system , I have been following many different UAV's so I don't need to google ,I can tell you that many Pakistanis are dissatisfied with this system , when I said this system was originally designed for weather I was being nice the seascan system which this is a second generation off ,was originally designed to was used for tracking tuna for fishermen.

ScanEagle approaching a ship for its first autonomous landing. The UAV was recovered using Insitu's Skyhook system, in which ScanEagle catches a rope hanging from a 50ft-high pole.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/boeingaerospace/2009357469_airshowuavside19.html
Unmanned aircraft started as tuna finder

 

[DaRk WaVe]

I know this system , I have been following many different UAV's so I don't need to google ,I can tell you that many Pakistanis are dissatisfied with this system , when I said this system was originally designed for weather I was being nice the seascan system which this is a second generation off ,was originally designed to was used for tracking tuna for fishermen.

did i denied it? NO

From Dolphins to Destroyers: The ScanEagle UAV
February 28, 2010

ScanEagle’s base Insight™ UAV platform was originally developed by Washington State’s Insitu, Inc. to track dolphins and tuna from fishing boats, in order to ensure that the fish you buy in supermarkets is “dolphin-safe”.

It turns out that the same characteristics needed by fishing boats (able to handle the salt-water environment, low infrastructure launch and recovery, small size, 20-hour long endurance, automated flight patterns) are equally important for naval operations from larger vessels, and for battlefield surveillance.

A partnership with Boeing took ScanEagle to market in those fields, and the design is carving out a market-leading position in its niche.

This article covers recent developments with the ScanEagle UAV system, which is quickly evolving into a mainstay with the US Navy – and others as well.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...newsletter&utm_source=did&utm_medium=textlink

we are talking about the Scan Eagle & it is no way a worth less piece of crap & i have proved it

Thanks

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Will Pakistan be satisified with this?? I mean Pakistan always asked for Drones with capabilty to fire missiles and liquidate targets! Thats what they want, but thats something they are not getting. I am sure Americans are giving Pakistanis technology which is outdated, because they hell as know the Chinese are around to snoop, so we can be rest assured the Americans are sure of the Scan eagle being sent to China wont make a difference.

holding less than 2 gallons of gasoline this will not have enough power to be weaponized in anyway, this is a mini UAV I am not sure if Pakistanis will accept this either?? The shadow in many ways better for the simple reason it could be hooked up to a network. USA were going to supply 12 Shadows I don't know how many Scaneagles they are planning to supply??

 

[sandeepdg]

I don't know why its hurting you that a Pakistani Girl is standing upto you
but your assumption is absolutely ABSURD & WRONG, Pro Pak Gov in Afghanistan does not mean Rule of Taliban, We have captured the 2nd in Command of Afghan Taliban & shadow Taliban Governors, This proves that we indeed going for Afghan Taliban after literally annihilating TTP & success stories are coming (Infact i haven't seen any thread or news related to high ranking taliban militants arrest here) so this theory of Pak Using Afghan Taliban as a Proxy for setting up a Pro-Pak Gov in Afghanistan is debunked by the 'events', that have taken place in last few months

Thanks

Well, I congratulate your armed forces for netting such a prize catch as you put it ! But the thing is that we are talking about commitment, i.e. we expect this kind of an aggressive anti-Taliban action to continue even when there's no US or NATO to pressure your government around. When that happens, it will obviously be much helpful in maintaining peace in Afghanistan and help in efforts to make the subcontinent as a whole, a more peaceful place !

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Well, I congratulate your armed forces for netting such a prize catch as you put it ! But the thing is that we are talking about commitment, i.e. we expect this kind of an aggressive anti-Taliban action to continue even when there's no US or NATO to pressure your government around. When that happens, it will obviously be much helpful in maintaining peace in Afghanistan and help in efforts to make the subcontinent as a whole, a more peaceful place !

Opeartion Mushtarik is successful, we have got some big fish & ISAF is eying for a bigger Operation towards Kandhar, meaning there will be total annihilation of Taliban

at least you must not question our commitment after such a 'valuable contribution', for peace of region

 

[sandeepdg]

Opeartion Mushtarik is successful, we have got some big fish & ISAF is eying for a bigger Operation towards Kandhar, meaning there will be total annihilation of Taliban

at least you must not question our commitment after such a 'valuable contribution', for peace of region

Emo, I never said that what your forces have done is not commendable !! TTP is definitely a threat to the state of Pakistan and its people and so is Afghan Taliban to the Afghan state and its people. But the question is will we see the same kind of commitment when the US and NATO leave Afghanistan and leave the Afghan people to fend for themselves ?? That, I believe will be the acid test for your government's anti-terror efforts !

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Emo, I never said that what your forces have done is not commendable !! TTP is definitely a threat to the state of Pakistan and its people and so is Afghan Taliban to the Afghan state and its people. But the question is will we see the same kind of commitment when the US and NATO leave Afghanistan and leave the Afghan people to fend for themselves ?? That, I believe will be the acid test for your government's anti-terror efforts !

neither you nor me knows about future, only Time will tell, but right 'now' events are supporting my argument

 

[DaRk WaVe]

holding less than 2 gallons of gasoline this will not have enough power to be weaponized in anyway, this is a mini UAV I am not sure if Pakistanis will accept this either?? The shadow in many ways better for the simple reason it could be hooked up to a network. USA were going to supply 12 Shadows I don't know how many Scaneagles they are planning to supply??

if you see the specifications of Falco & shadow, you will see that both UAVs are somewhat similar
as i said before we DONT HAVE any mini UAV similar to Scan Eagle & there is no comparison between Scan Eagle & Falco/Shadow

 

[Rage]

Emo_girl,

Two things you will follow of necessity on this forum:

1. Type in clear, correct, coherent English, so that we may all understand what you're trying to say. Don't use doggy language like LOL's and LMAO's where you can avoid them, and preferably little SMS language. It detracts from your credibility, and that kind of subtle, 'psychological diminution' just ain't cool.
2. Don't project your raison d'être of individual behavior on to 'perceived inequalities'. We here ain't sexist. And we don't plan on being. You just accused ahmedsid of being pushy because you were a 'pakistani girl'. I assure you, in all likelihood it was the opposite.


Down to your logic for procuring the Scaneagle, I fail to see what the rationale is. What functional addition in value does the Scan Eagle provide you?

Is it's low RCS a key ingredient in a counter-insurgent war, for ostensibly, you aim to use them only in the 'War On Terror' ?

Is it's miniature size a key factor in determining its survivability and utility, when ostensibly: i) it flies at a maximum altitude of 5000m, in comparison to the 5000m cruise-attitude and 6,500m altitude-ceiling of the Falco UAV; ii) and manoeuvers at a speed of 50 kt (and by conversion, 92.6 kmph) in comparison to the Falco's maximum at 216 kmph?

Is its non-autonomous retrieval via an arrestor wire striding between two fifty-foot poles of the Sky Hook system somehow more beneficial than the autonomous, automatic, taxiiable STOL landing of the Falco, especially in a counter-insurgent scenario? This, btw, is the Sky Hook capture:




Is its patent lack of an infrared camera somehow more beneficial than the thermal-imaging capabilites of the Falco UAV in night-time operations?

Is its ultra-light standard-issue Mode C Transponder somehow of great value addition in helping with aircraft de-confliction, when the number of aircraft approximated to be in use in this operation is nowhere near as close to those involved in realtime war operations?

Is its 320x240 pixel camera with an 18° field of vision somehow more expedient than the gimballed, high-resolution, multistatic Synthetic Aperture Radar capable of 1024x640 pixels on the Falco UAV? Clearly the United States is not going to transfer its Nano-SAR UAV- the world's smalles Synthetic Aperture Radar, weighing two pounds and roughly the size of a shoe box to Pakisthan. It will very likely be an older version of the Scaneagle UAV.

So is the Scan Eagle UAV, aside from your articles about its low-cost operability in the Iraq war and their focus on "recent developments with the ScanEagle UAV", really that "potent"?


This btw is the 'Falco' UAV:



The only benefit I can see accruing from the Scan Eagle UAV in the Pakistani inventory, is its interoperability with Remote Optical Video Enhanced Receiver (Rover-type) systems that enable front line forces to receive imagery directly from manned and unmanned aircraft. But in a war against a low-tech insurgent, with secure communication lines and the lack of an ability to 'decrypt', this is hardly 'necessary'. Are you catchin' my drift?

 

[bigtiger]

Why should somebody be surprised when US gives all the advanced weapons to Pakistan?? Pakistan has been regarded as an ally by the US for decades. So Pakistan does not have much to worry about.

Pakistan is an ally of both US and China, That's why in the 1970's Pakistan acted as a middleman to bring US and China together.

neither you nor me knows about future, only Time will tell, but right 'now' events are supporting my argument

 

[ejazr]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...07/AR2011010706494_2.html?sid=ST2011010706534

The Obama administration has decided to offer Pakistan more military, intelligence and economic support, and to intensify U.S. efforts to forge a regional peace, despite ongoing frustration that Pakistani officials are not doing enough to combat terrorist groups in the country's tribal areas, officials said.

The decision to double down on Pakistan represents the administration's attempt to call the bluff of Pakistani officials who have long complained that the United States has failed to understand their security priorities or provide adequate support.

That message will be delivered by Vice President Biden, who plans to travel to Pakistan next week for meetings with military chief Gen. Ashfaq Kayani and top government leaders. Biden will challenge the Pakistanis to articulate their long-term strategy for the region and indicate exactly what assistance is needed for them to move against Taliban sanctuaries in areas bordering Afghanistan.

The strategy, determined in last month's White House Afghanistan war review, amounts to an intensifying of existing efforts to overcome widespread suspicion and anti-American sentiment in Pakistan, and build trust and stability.

President Obama and his top national security aides rejected proposals, made by some military commanders and intelligence officials who have lost patience with Pakistan, to allow U.S. ground forces to conduct targeted raids against insurgent safe havens, officials said. They concluded that the United States can ill afford to threaten or further alienate a precarious, nuclear-armed country whose cooperation is essential to the administration on several fronts.

The conclusions were referred to in a publicly released, five-page summary of the review as unspecified policy "adjustments." Several administration officials said that the classified review identified areas where stronger effort was needed rather than specific new programs.

The review resolved to "look hard" at what more could be done to improve economic stability, particularly on tax policy and Pakistan's relations with international financial institutions. It directed administration and Pentagon officials to "make sure that our sizeable military assistance programs are properly tailored to what the Pakistanis need, and are targeted on units that will generate the most benefit" for U.S. objectives, said one senior administration official who participated in the review and was authorized to discuss it on condition of anonymity.

Pakistan has complained in the past that promised U.S. aid, currently projected to total more than $3 billion in 2011, has been slow to arrive and that requests for helicopters and other military equipment have remained unfulfilled.

Beginning with Biden's visit, the time may be ripe for a frank exchange of views and priorities between the two sides, another administration official said. The Pakistanis "understand that Afghanistan-Pakistan has become the single most important foreign policy issue to the United States, and their cachet has gone up." But they also realize that they may have reached the point of maximum leverage, this official said, "and things about their region are going to change one way or the other" in the near future, as Congress and the American public grow increasingly disillusioned with the war and a timeline for military withdrawal is set.

"Something is going to give," he said. "There is going to be an end-game scenario and they're trying to guess where we're heading."

On intelligence, the administration plans to address Pakistan's complaints that the Americans have not established enough outposts on the Afghan side of the border to stop insurgent infiltration, while pressing the Pakistanis to allow U.S. and Afghan officials to staff border coordination centers inside Pakistan itself.

The intelligence coordination is part of an effort to build political, trade and security links between Pakistan and Afghanistan as a way of assuaging Pakistan's fears that India, its traditional adversary, is building its own influence in Afghanistan. "We think there's a lot of room for improvement on that front," the senior official said.

The administration also plans "redouble our efforts to look for political approaches" to ending the war, including a recognition that Pakistan "must play an important role" if not a dominant one, in reconciliation talks with the Taliban, he said.

An intelligence estimate prepared for the review concluded that the war in Afghanistan could not be won unless the insurgent sanctuaries were wiped out, and that there was no real indication Pakistan planned to undertake the effort.

But the White House concluded that while Taliban safe havens were "a factor," they were "not the only thing that stands between us and success in Afghanistan," the senior official said.

"We understand the general view a lot of people espouse" in calling for direct U.S. ground attacks, he said of the intelligence estimate. But while the administration's goal is still a Pakistani offensive, the review questioned whether "classic clear, hold and build" operations were the only way to deny the insurgents free access to the borderlands, and asked whether "a range of political, military, counterterrorism and intelligence operations" could achieve the same result.

That view represents a significant shift in administration thinking, perhaps making a virtue of necessity given Pakistani refusal thus far to launch the kind of full-scale ground offensive the United States has sought in North Waziristan.

"The challenge is that when you talk about safe havens in Pakistan, you imagine some traditional military clearing operation that then settles the issue," the official said. While the Pakistani military has cleared insurgents from most of the tribal areas, it remains heavily deployed in those areas, where little building has taken place.

The operations, involving 140,000 Pakistani troops, have pushed concentrations of the Taliban and al-Qaeda into concentrations in North Waziristan, where the United States has launched a withering barrage of missile attacks from remotely piloted drone aircraft, guided in large part by Pakistani intelligence.

Kayani, the Pakistani military chief, has said he will eventually launch an offensive in North Waziristan. But he has told the Americans he cannot spare additional troops from Pakistan's half-million-man army, most of which is deployed along the Indian border, and that he lacks the proper equipment to conduct operations he fears will drive insurgents deeper inside Pakistan's populated areas.

U.S. military commanders have pushed numerous times over the past 18 months for more latitude to allow Special Operations troops to carry out missions across the Pakistan border, officials said. The CIA has similarly sought to expand the territory inside Pakistan it can patrol with armed drones, prodding Pakistan repeatedly for permission to fly drones over Quetta, a city in Baluchistan where the Taliban's political leaders are thought to be based.

The senior administration official, who called the proposals "ideas, not even operational concepts much less plans," said they have were rejected by the White House in the most recent review, as they have repeatedly been in the past, as likely to cause more harm than good.

"We've got to increasingly try to look at this through their lens," the official said of Pakistan, "not because we accept it wholesale, but because their actions are going to continue to be driven by their perspective."

"In the long run," he said, "our objectives have to do with the defeat of al-Qaeda and the security of Pakistan's nuclear weapons. If you're not careful here . . .you may do something in the short run that makes gains against the policy objective in North Waziristan, but proves self-defeating in the long term."

 

[Welcome]

more support to pakistan....what's new in that ? we can expect only this from American's.