Hong Kongers vote in democracy referendum

nimo_cn

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True that it was not democracy as democracies go, but Hong Kong officials were accountable to a democratically elected government in Britain sensitive to accusations of mismanaging a colony. Local officials often disobeyed London when it was in the local interest—for this reason frustrated Colonial Office mandarins sometimes dubbed the city "The Republic of Hong Kong." For many decades it boasted a higher standard of governance than the mother country.

That there was democratic norms and freedom of thought and speech during the British is proved by the fact that. the Hong Kong College of Medicine for Chinese (香港華人西醫書院) was founded by the London Missionary Society in 1887, with its first graduate (in 1892) being Sun Yat-sen (孫中山).

Heard of Sun Yat Sen?

Would he have been able to do what he did by being on the Mainland?

It is the air of democracy that made him such a profound reformer and the the originator of modern China.
officials democratically elected?

i never looked into the details of the way British ruled their colonies, but definitely it was nothing democratic.

one thing for sure, the governor of HK was not elected democratically, instead he was appointed by the Queen. and the governor wouldnt be Chinese. how the democratic was that?

if you ever watched HK crime movies, you will find out that the top police officials were always British.

it was basically a small group of foreigners ruling the Chinese majority, that is why we call it colonization. only people who were colonized call something like that democracy.

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Compersion

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You do realize that each vote in Hong Kong required the internet user to state their name, ID number, and legal Hong Kong address, and more importantly, their time of vote. If I were PRC counterintelligence, I could not think of a better way to draw all the democracy 'early adopters' onto a giant list for later 'targeted' actions - starting with the first ones to vote in each housing block or social network cluster.
It can work the other way also. There is a database and interests that are against PRC policies and they have developed a quick grouping of such that they can easily grouped and be used. These groups must have contacts within PRC and also travel in and out, I think the PRC leadership is wishing that they turn out to be like aap with poor leadership,

Why doesn't PRC work on discussing and talking to the people in Hong Kong and try and win them over, it's too aggressive, perhaps it's a difficult message and is against a principled approach,

The other fascinating thing is the communist party does not field any candidates and people in Hong Kong elections, they rule the country and have the support of over 1 billion people. Why don't they field candidates in Hong Kong they ought to win handsomely, either way how PRC deals with Hong Kong will be dealt with pragmatists and bigger picture in mind since there is huge non-Chinese assets there that they do not want to loose. I won't bet against PRC trying to come out with a solution that looks to make things good for everyone concern.
 

no smoking

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I also see that it is Hong Kong and NOT Mainland China.

Lots of difference, right.

One Nation, Two Systems!
I don't see Hong Kong protesters are requiring democracy for people in Mainland China.


That is right. Controlled and Stifled democracy, but some vestiges of democracy still there.
Well, maybe you can point out which part of "democracy" they enjoyed under British control is terminated today.
 

t_co

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It can work the other way also. There is a database and interests that are against PRC policies and they have developed a quick grouping of such that they can easily grouped and be used. These groups must have contacts within PRC and also travel in and out, I think the PRC leadership is wishing that they turn out to be like aap with poor leadership,

Why doesn't PRC work on discussing and talking to the people in Hong Kong and try and win them over, it's too aggressive, perhaps it's a difficult message and is against a principled approach,

The other fascinating thing is the communist party does not field any candidates and people in Hong Kong elections, they rule the country and have the support of over 1 billion people. Why don't they field candidates in Hong Kong they ought to win handsomely, either way how PRC deals with Hong Kong will be dealt with pragmatists and bigger picture in mind since there is huge non-Chinese assets there that they do not want to loose. I won't bet against PRC trying to come out with a solution that looks to make things good for everyone concern.
Of course. But given that the data was collected on Chinese territory using Chinese telecom lines and by a team of Chinese researchers...
 

Compersion

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Of course. But given that the data was collected on Chinese territory using Chinese telecom lines and by a team of Chinese researchers...
are you suggesting that this whole exercise was designed to get these individuals be highlighted for "targeting". I am not a expert on such matters. and also i have not calculated the impact of such news being assimilated in hong kong. did these people go ahead knowing that would in fact happen (thats powerful principled action and difficult to defeat).

but how do you define "Chinese". what about all the non-chinese in hong kong (that includes Taiwanese (that explains why your logic does not work), British, American etc). The British and Americans and others have a special category called Britsh-Chinese, American-Chinese and [X]-Chinese as well as including their other categories of groupings.

how do you define a Hong Kong person. Do they consider themselves PRC people. The business interests of Hong Kong people in Hong Kong are they PRC. how do you define the hong kong media - is it 100% PRC.

Richard Li acquires control of Hong Kong newspaper - Taipei Times

Allegations of interference in political reporting[edit]
Local press has been avidly reporting on efforts of the central government's Liaison Office to rally support behind Leung, but said reports have been creating discomfort for officials. Albert Ho relayed complaints he has received about Liaison Office attempts to intimidate editors and media bosses.[93] Media widely reported that Richard Li had received calls from CLO propaganda chief Hao Tiechuan (Chinese: 郝鐵川) dissatisfied at the reporting at his Hong Kong Economic Journal (HKEJ).[94] Ho said the CLO's actions were creating "an atmosphere of terror" in the territory.[95] The Hong Kong Journalists Association, which noted that the HKEJ had received complaints about its coverage from central government's liaison office, and condemned the "open violation" of the one-country two-systems principle
Hong Kong Chief Executive election, 2012 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am sure you are knowing who this guy is and whose son he is. Why he did that above ... he is a multi-billionaire. will he be targeted.

Ex-Infosys president BG Srinivas joins Hong Kong’s PCCW - The Times of India

also the telecom and business assets in hong kong are they 100% PRC. in fact i wont be surprised if the higher more valuable assets are non-chinese. this includes the financial system and the big investment banks and retail banks (i hope you do not confuse the use of Indian name above to signify that it is Indian influence but ask yourself why Indian).

HSBC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HSBC

Swire: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swire_Group

And a more advance analysis:

China Mobile: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Mobile

China Mobile Limited (Chinese: 中国移动有限公司) is listed on both the NYSE and the Hong Kong stock exchange.
China Telecom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Telecom

China Telecom has been listed on the Hong Kong and New York stock exchanges since 2002, but the Chinese government still retains majority ownership
Also what about this chubby guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Lai

again i am not a expert but i am sure what you say might be happening and its expected and many will say it is the right of PRC to be honest. PRC has systems and procedures in place in PRC.

i would like to see what is happening in Hong Kong to be dealt with pragmatists and bigger picture in mind. I am sure that PRC will give such views consideration and value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Basic_Law_Article_23

On September 5, the Hong Kong government indefinitely shelved its highly controversial anti-subversion law (Article 23 of the Basic Law, the territory's quasi-constitution) after a series of massive protests since December. Article 23 was seen as a means to suppress political dissent.

The biggest protest, on July 1, mobilised 700,000 people. It was the largest political demonstration in Hong Kong since its return to Chinese sovereignty on July 1, 1997.
https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/29029

Hong Kong is not like a city in PRC. I think there is more sophisticated and more experienced intellectuals in PRC that are dealing with Hong Kong instead of using and relying on such motives and designs.

i would like to see these intellectuals and pragmatists speak more often and be seen by Hong Kong people.

what do you think will happen in the next chief executive election for hong kong and the one thereafter. you realize there is a limit of the "terms" one can serve.

there is a lot of people like me sitting on the sidelines and only watching and wishing that whatever happens it is good for everyone including PRC and Hong Kong people. i am wishing the best for everyone including PRC and hong kong.
 
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Ray

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Mainlanders are not welcome in HK

Former Mainland residents who entered Hong Kong with One-Way Permits for settlement often make trips back to the Mainland after they have settled in Hong Kong. Will these frequent trips affect their eligibility for permanent resident status in the HKSAR?

If you are a One-Way Permit entrant who has resided ordinarily in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years, you can submit an application to verify your eligibility for permanent resident status in the HKSAR.

A person does not cease to be ordinarily resident in Hong Kong if he or she is temporarily absent from Hong Kong. The circumstances of the person and the absence are relevant in determining whether a person has ceased to be ordinarily resident in Hong Kong. The circumstances may include the reason, duration and frequency of any absence from Hong Kong, whether the person has habitual residence in Hong Kong, whether the person is employed by a Hong Kong based company and the whereabouts of the principal family members (spouse and minor children).
GovHK: Frequently Asked Questions
Q1.
Who can enjoy the right of abode in the HKSAR?

According to paragraph 2(a) to (f) of Schedule 1 to the Immigration Ordinance, which came into operation on 1 July 1997, you are a permanent resident of, and can enjoy the right of abode in, the HKSAR if you fall into one of the following categories:

(a) A Chinese citizen born in Hong Kong before or after the establishment of the HKSAR.

(b) A Chinese citizen who has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years before or after the establishment of the HKSAR.

(c) A person of Chinese nationality born outside Hong Kong before or after the establishment of the HKSAR to a parent who, at the time of birth of that person, was a Chinese citizen falling within category (a) or (b).

(d) A person not of Chinese nationality who has entered Hong Kong with a valid travel document, has ordinarily resided in Hong Kong for a continuous period of not less than 7 years and has taken Hong Kong as his or her place of permanent residence before or after the establishment of the HKSAR.

(e) A person under 21 years of age born in Hong Kong to a parent who is a permanent resident of the HKSAR in category (d) before or after the establishment of the HKSAR if at the time of his or her birth, or at any later time before he or she attains 21 years of age, one parent has the right of abode in Hong Kong.

(f) A person other than those residents in categories (a) to (e), who, before the establishment of the HKSAR, had the right of abode in Hong Kong only.
GovHK: Frequently Asked Questions
 

Ray

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Why living in Hong Kong as mainland Chinese is no piece of cake

Joy Yang first wrote in Chinese about her experience as a person from the mainland living in Hong Kong. Her story was a hit on Weibo and sparked heated discussion. She has translated her article into English to share with SCMP readers.

We constantly hear Hong Kong locals complain about people who visit from the mainland and buy up milk powder or take up space in maternity wards, but rarely are the voices of those from the mainland heard.

My first impression of Hong Kong was not a good one. I was part of a batch of 28 undergraduates who had arrived from top universities on the mainland to study at the University of Hong Kong in 1999. I was 18 and excited about starting an adult life in the "Pearl of the Orient", with its fancy shops, pop stars and legends of successful businessmen.

This excitement was soon replaced by anger and disappointment. A few days after arriving, a tutor at the hall of residence and a local female student came to my room and asked if they could search it. The girl said her mobile phone had been stolen. They rummaged through our bags then left with no apologies. But it was clearly written on their faces what they were thinking: "Where the hell are these two poor mainland girls hiding my mobile phone?"

I felt angry, but, sadly, it was not the last time this would happen. When something went missing in the hall of residence, the mainland students were always the first ones, and for most of the time the only ones, to be suspected. What was particularly insulting was that most of the suspected stolen items were insignificant - a slice of cheese or a bottle of milk. Yes, China's per-capita GDP was low, but were we so poor in those locals' eyes that even an orange was worth stealing?

After such bad experiences, I was always ready to strike back whenever I felt insulted or discriminated against. One time a local asked for my help on her class project comparing Hong Kong with Shanghai. Her first question was whether there was karaoke in Shanghai. Such an ignorant question offended my big Shanghainese ego. And when she asked about the living conditions there, I answered, with full arrogance: "My home in Shanghai was more than 1,000 square feet. How big is your home in Hong Kong?"

I did not make many good friends with local students at first, but I did not care. I don't have to blend into the local culture, I told myself.

Sooner or later, those Hongkongers will recognise that mainland China is no longer a poor country, and we will influence the world with our growing economic and political power – more than Hong Kong does. So why should I care about blending into the local culture?

I could have kept "fighting" like that until one incident changed me.

After many conflicts I had with local students, the student union decided to kick me out of the hall of residence. The last straw, I believed, was when I defended a mainland tutor at a meeting and argued that her critics were discriminating against mainlanders. The mainlanders are my ally, and Hongkongers are our common enemy – I truly believed it at that time.

But when the student union labelled me as a troublemaker, not only did the tutor not speak out for me as I did for her, but she also turned her back on me.

"Who asked her to fight with the local students?" she told others behind my back. I felt betrayed.

I started losing hope that I would find a place to live until a Hong Kong tutor called me to say that the hall of residence had decided to give me another chance. She said some locals had argued that I was simply from a different culture and that the hall should welcome different views.

I was shocked when I heard that.

Betrayed by my ally only to be saved by my enemy - that completely changed my mentality. I became more receptive to local culture. More locals said they were eager to learn from me about the mainland, and I apologised to them, admitting that I had been too extreme in the past.

What I want to say is simple: blending into Hong Kong's local culture is not that difficult, if we have the right attitude. That is what I learned 10 years ago. I left Hong Kong in 2002 for graduate school in the US, with full appreciation of what Hong Kong had taught me, both academically and non-academically.

But life is always more complicated than we think. I returned to Hong Kong in 2011, after studying and working in the US for nine years. Nowadays in Hong Kong, I find that blending into the local culture is not as simple as 10 years ago.

I started noticing the rapidly changing dynamics between locals and mainlanders from afar.

For example, HKU offers one-year exchange programmes for its undergraduates to study abroad. Students are selected based on academic performance and extra-curriculum activities. Each year we received about four to five HKU students in Los Angeles, and usually three or four of them were students originally from the mainland.

This had to do with the rising population of mainland students in Hong Kong. Back in my day, the economics department only had three to four mainland students. We got As most of the time, but plenty of As were left for local students. Today the economics department has about 20 to 30 mainland students, and when they get most of the As, as I heard from a HKU professor, a B is the best that a local student can hope for.

It's not about who is smarter. After all, one is selected from a population of 1.4 billion and the other is from a population of seven million. Even though universities are supposed to be a place for fair competition, it is understandable why many Hong Kong students dislike their mainland peers. Ten years ago we "stole" apples and milk; today we "steal" As in class.

The younger generation from the mainland constantly outperforms locals in other aspects too. They score high in exams, participate in social activities and even speak better English than many local students. "We invited investment bankers to give seminars on campus," an HKU professor said, "and after, all the mainland students rushed to socialise with the speaker, handed in their resumes and asked for internship opportunities, while many local students just hid themselves in the back rows."

My speculation that Hongkongers felt threatened by mainlanders was confirmed when I returned in 2011. Yes, there are more mainlanders in Hong Kong than ever, and Hong Kong has never been this close to its motherland. But if you think that made my life here easier, you are wrong. Locals are rejecting mainland people and culture harder than before.

That's why I realise that having a happy life in Hong Kong is no longer as simple as having the right attitude. It is harder to blend into the local culture than 10 years ago because the pushback from local people is harder than ever. This view is probably not shared by some of my mainland peers living in Hong Kong. Some of them do not think it necessary to blend into the local culture. "I earn more money than most of the Hongkongers" and "I always ask them to speak Putonghua to me", one of my Beijing friends said with pride.

Resistance from locals is particularly obvious in two areas – the financial sector and the working class. The lack of transparency and the unique Chinese culture are often challenging for foreigners working in the Chinese market. Top investment banks and hedge funds prefer to hire mainlanders – over Hongkongers, ABCs and Westerners – for their China business knowledge. In Central, Putonghua is becoming a popular language, not only in shopping malls, but also in offices.

Working-class people are probably the ones who are mostly affected and, to some extent, squeezed. They face shortages of milk powder and of hospital beds, and a crowded Ocean Park - I would complain too if I were a local.

The problem is not unique to Hong Kong. Beijingers and Shanghainese complain about new migrants in their cities too. It's all about competition for limited social welfare. In some aspects, Hong Kong is worse off. At least for a baby born in Shanghai or Beijing, she is not qualified for a hukou [residency permit] in the city if neither parent has one. But in Hong Kong, any child born here would automatically get access to the social welfare system – even if their parents are not permanent Hong Kong residents.

So who should be blamed for the rising tension between Hong Kong and the mainland? In my view, some Hong Kong media could take more responsibility. They could be fairer and stop reporting biased stories for the sake of boosting sales. The central government should also take more decisive actions to solve its food safety problem, so that mainland mums do not have to travel to Hong Kong for milk powder. Joint efforts by Hong Kong people, mainlanders, media and government will make the city a friendlier place to study, work and live.



I'd like to ask a question to end my story: nowadays in Hong Kong, should I speak Putonghua or Cantonese when I go shopping? I tried once to speak Cantonese in the Harbour City shopping mall, but the saleswoman turned away and greeted other mainland shoppers with her fluent Putonghua. I then tried to speak Putonghua at another store in Causeway Bay and received good service. But when I decided to leave without buying any shoes, the salesperson's face went dark. She asked angrily: "Why you don't buy? They are so cheap! And it's another 20 per cent off if you pay with RMB!" I realised finally that it's not about language; it's all about your wallet.

Joy Yang is from Shanghai. She studied at the University of Hong Kong and at the University of California, Los Angeles in the US. She worked in Washington DC as an economist for the International Monetary Fund and now works in the financial industry in Hong Kong.
Why living in Hong Kong as mainland Chinese is no piece of cake | South China Morning Post
Just shows how much the Hong Kong people 'love' the Mainland Chinese!

and how the Hong Kong people denigrate them as non people!

Shocking!

I wonder why the Mainland Chinese want to go to Hong Kong only to be insulted.

Surely, Mainland China must be a great place, as so many Chinese posters claim, and none have to go to Hong Kong.

What is the allure of Hong Kong for the Mainland Chinese?

There must be something, or why go there and get insulted?

Could it be the democratic freedom that is not there on the Mainland?
 
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Ray

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Hong Kong's unofficial pro-democracy referendum irks Beijing

Caustic editorials, cyber-attacks and police displays form part of mainland's response to vote on right of HK to choose own leader


About 730,000 Hong Kong residents – equivalent to a fifth of the registered electorate – have voted in an unofficial "referendum" that has infuriated Beijing and prompting a flurry of vitriolic editorials, preparatory police exercises and cyber-attacks.

Occupy Central with Love and Peace (OCLP), the pro-democracy movement that organised the poll, hopes to pressure Beijing into allowing Hong Kong's 7.2 million residents to choose their own leader by 2017. If Beijing refuses, OCLP says, the movement will mobilise at least 10,000 people next month to block the main roads in Central, a forest of skyscrapers housing businesses and government offices on Hong Kong island's northern shore.

Mainland officials and newspapers have called the poll "illegal" while many have condemned the OCLP, claiming it is motivated by foreign "anti-China forces" and will damage Hong Kong's standing as a financial capital. The movement is led by Benny Tai Yiu-ting, an assistant law professor at the University of Hong Kong.

Around 3.5 million of Hong Kong's residents were registered to vote in its last official election in 2012, when polls were held for the legislative assembly, with 1.8m ballots cast in total.

On Tuesday, Zhang Junsheng, a former deputy director of Xinhua News Agency in Hong Kong, called the poll "meaningless". The state-run Global Times newspaper – notorious for its nationalistic editorials – mocked the referendum as an "illegal farce" and "a joke". The territory's pro-Beijing chief executive, Leung Chun-Ying, said: "Nobody should place Hong Kong people in confrontation with mainland Chinese citizens."

Mainland censors have meanwhile scrubbed social media sites clean of references to the OCLP.

Since Britain handed Hong Kong back to mainland China in 1997, Beijing has governed the region under a principle of "one country, two systems". The framework allows Hong Kong to maintain an independent judiciary and press, even as Beijing retains control over many of its other administrative functions, including foreign affairs and defence.

Yet many Hong Kong residents feel that their independence is eroding as Beijing's influence grows. Since the 1997 handover, Hong Kong's chief executive – the territory's highest-ranking official – has been selected by a committee of 1,200 local elites, many of them hand-picked by Beijing. While authorities have promised to grant Hong Kong universal suffrage in 2017, they will only allow "patriotic" candidates to run in the election, rendering the voting process moot.

The OCLP poll, which went live on June 20 and will end on Sunday, gave Hong Kong residents three options on how they could choose their next chief executive. All three would allow the public to nominate its own candidates.

Beijing has shown no signs of backing down. Earlier this month, a powerful government office issued a white paper claiming "comprehensive jurisdiction" over the territory. "The high degree of autonomy of the HKSAR [Hong Kong Special Administrative Region] is not full autonomy, nor a decentralised power," it said. "It is the power to run local affairs as authorised by the central leadership."

Michael DeGolyer, director of the transition project at Hong Kong Baptist University, one of the territory's most respected polling organisations, said: "It's very clear from surveys that the vast majority of the people voting in this referendum are doing it as a reaction to this white paper – particularly because they see it as threatening the rule of law ... That's not negotiating on the one country two systems principle, that's demolishing it."

He added that many Hong Kong residents see the OCLP as a radical, and potentially destabilising force. "They're not voting by the hundreds of thousands that they're going to attack police or stand in the middle of the road," he added. "That's not going to happen."

As the poll opened, it was quickly hit by what one US-based cyber-security firm called the "most sophisticated onslaught ever seen".

"[The attackers] continue to use different strategies over time," Matthew Prince, the chief executive of CloudFlare, a firm that helped defend against the attack, told the South China Morning Post. "It is pretty unique and sophisticated." The firm could not identify the origin of the attack.

On Wednesday, officers at Hong Kong's Police College took part in a "major exercise" to prepare for OCLP planned protest. "Swift action will be taken if protest groups try to paralyse traffic, occupy infrastructure facilities and block emergency access," an unidentified source told the newspaper.
Hong Kong's unofficial pro-democracy referendum irks Beijing | World news | The Guardian
Tolerance, thy name is Communist China!
 

Ray

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What have our Chinese posters to say?

There was no democracy during the Colonial times and yet the Hong Kongers prefer good old type of freedom call it by any name, that is being strangulated by the CCP.

I wonder if any Chinese poster will clear the air.

Maybe something from t_co or the Chief of the China brigade nimo_cn?
 
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nimo_cn

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What have our Chinese posters to say?

There was no democracy during the Colonial times and yet the Hong Kongers prefer good old type of freedom call it by any name, that is being strangulated by the CCP.

I wonder if any Chinese poster will clear the air.

Maybe something from t_co or the Chief of the China brigade nimo_cn?
well, there are also Indians who miss the old days of being slaves of Britain.

the only common thing that Indians share with HKers is that both were colonized by British, hence both retain some kind of nostalgia for British colonization.

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Ray

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well, there are also Indians who miss the old days of being slaves of Britain.

the only common thing that Indians share with HKers is that both were colonized by British, hence both retain some kind of nostalgia for British colonization.

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Yes.

As you miss the benign days under Kubklai Khan who brought rich heritage and culture to China compared to the brutal mind control regime of the Communists in China.

Now insightful of you.

Why blame the Hong Konger for British nostalgia. If CCP has been a better manner of governance, then they would have automatically accepted it and not clamour for democracy.

Let your bitterness not show for not being able to emulate the Hong Konger when your heart yearns to copycat them.
 

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Hong Kong hits back at China media over democracy poll

HONG KONG -- Hong Kong's leader hit back Tuesday at Chinese media criticism of an unofficial democracy poll in the city, softening his stance after turnout far exceeded organizers' expectations with more than 700,000 voting so far.
The informal "referendum," organized by local pro-democracy activists, comes as fears grow that China will backtrack on its promise to allow Hong Kong voters to choose their next leader — currently appointed by a pro-Beijing panel.

The city's current chief executive Leung Chun-ying said voters had "expressed their hopes and demands" for elections in 2017.

He hit back at an editorial in China's state-run Global Times newspaper condemning the poll as "an illegal farce" and saying that China's 1.3 billion population outweighed opinions in Hong Kong, a semi-autonomous city of seven million.

"Global Times yesterday came out with a piece, headlined: 'However many involved in illegal referendum, it can't match 1.3 billion' — I don't agree with that," Leung said.

"Nobody should place Hong Kong people in confrontation with mainland Chinese citizens," he added.

The comments stood in sharp contrast with Leung's initial reaction, which was in line with Beijing's stance that the referendum's proposals go against Hong Kong's constitution.

On Tuesday, Leung defended voters' right to have their say.

"Many of the participating citizens have expressed their hopes and demands for the 2017 chief executive elections," he told reporters.

As of 6 pm local time (1000 GMT) Tuesday, more than 734,000 people had taken part in the informal ballot online, via mobile phones and at polling stations, with voting open until June 29.

Paper votes have not yet been counted but pollsters said Tuesday that there were less than 1,000 cast as most people used electronic tablets provided at polling booths.

Caught in the Crossfire
Under the agreement reached when the city was handed over from Britain to Communist-ruled China in 1997, Hong Kong residents enjoy civil liberties not seen on the mainland, including free speech and the right to protest.

But the vote comes amid rising fears that these liberties — guaranteed only until 2047 under the "one country, two systems" deal — are being steadily eroded.

China has promised direct elections for Hong Kong's next chief executive in 2017, but has ruled out allowing voters to choose which candidates can stand.

Many pro-democrats fear Beijing will hand pick the candidates to ensure election of a sympathetic official.

The unofficial referendum sets out three options for choosing the chief executive, all of which would give the public some influence over the candidate list.

"All three options in the ballot are against the Basic Law," Leung said Friday, referring to Hong Kong's constitution, shortly after after voting opened.

He made no mention of the legality of the proposals on Tuesday, but he rebuffed Beijing's earlier criticisms that the referendum itself was illegal.

"It (the referendum) does not have any legal basis, but it will not lead to criminal responsibilities," he said.

Sonny Lo, head of Social Sciences at the Hong Kong Institute of Education, said Leung's comments highlight his tricky position.

"Leung's remarks demonstrate the fact that the Hong Kong government is politically sandwiched between Beijing and the people of Hong Kong who demand to select a chief executive through universal suffrage," Lo told AFP.

"It is the predicament of the Hong Kong government, being hard-pressed by the democrats while Beijing has already said 'no.'"

The vote was organized by protest group Occupy Central, who say they will take over the streets of Hong Kong if the government does not allow a free choice in candidates.

The Global Times criticized activists again on Tuesday, in its third editorial on the democracy vote in the past four days.

"The radicals in Hong Kong are dragging Hong Kong to a murky future," it said.

"China is not Ukraine and Hong Kong is unlikely to become another Kiev or Donetsk. However it is the power of Beijing that ensures its prosperity and stable political development."

Concerns over Chinese influence were exacerbated earlier this month after a white paper in which Beijing reasserted its authority over Hong Kong, triggering angry protests in the city.

Hong Kong hits back at China media over democracy poll - The China Post
This is the democracy I am talking about that is denied to the Mainland puppets on a string.

Hong Kongers care a damn about the stifling atmosphere the Chinee Communist try to impose on Hong Kong.
 

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[video=youtube_share;jHP6NG6VgZI]http://youtu.be/jHP6NG6VgZI[/video]
 

Ray

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Hong Kong's leader asks China to allow democratic reform


Hong Kong government proposes overhaul of electoral system in a step towards universal suffrage following widespread protests


Hong Kong's leader formally asked Beijing on Tuesday to allow electoral reform, paving the way for a city-wide leadership election in 2017, but said elections would still have to abide by the restrictive framework set down by China's Communist authorities.

Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying offered no firm proposal, but said the contest would be run according to the "Basic Law", or mini-constitution, that has governed Hong Kong since Britain returned it to Chinese rule in 1997, rather than international standards.

That document stipulates that candidates for the position of chief executive must be approved in advance by a "broadly representative" special committee. The city's pro-democracy opposition fears it will be shut out of the poll.

In an initial report that comes just two weeks after hundreds of thousands marched through Asia's financial hub in support of full democracy, Chief Executive Leung said the principle of universal suffrage in the 2017 poll "will be an important milestone of the democratic development of Hong Kong's political system, with significant real impact and historic meaning".

"The Hong Kong community is generally eager to see the implementation of universal suffrage for the...election in 2017," he said in his report to the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress (NPCSC), China's parliament.

"What is important is that if the international standards do not comply with the Basic Law and the decisions of the NPCSC we have to follow the Basic Law and the NPCSC decision," he said.

Leung's report immediately sparked minor protests.

Three pro-democracy lawmakers were removed from the Legislative Council's chanber for unruly behaviour, including one who shouted "no caged elections".

Hong Kong is governed under the principle of "one country, two systems" allowing it broad autonomy and far more freedom of speech, assembly and religion than exists on the mainland. But China has made it plain that Beijing's sovereignty cannot be questioned.

Both the United States and Britain have intensified calls to implement democratic reforms amid broader concerns about the future of Hong Kong's core freedoms and independent judiciary.

Unionist and legislator Lee Cheuk-yan said the report was an attempt to "close the door" and suggested that activists might have to resort to civil disobedience and "more drastic methods".

Hong Kong's leader asks China to allow democratic reform - Telegraph
There will be more troubles for Mainland China from Hong Kong.

China has to act cautiously since Hong Kong has a whole lot of non Han people and so the atrocities committed will get leaked and China will lose face.

And the Han who are Hong Kong, having experienced the breath of fresh air under the colonial times compared to the choking stifling Communist stranglehold are equally disgusted with the CCP.

One wonders if the Communist can ride roughshod of the Hong Kong people as they did in Tienanmen Square or during the Cultural Revolution.
 

Compersion

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its too early to look up at the fan. but the fan is switched on.

i still believe PRC has its gameplan already chartered out in its red book. they know what they will do and also how. at the end of the day it will be good for hong kong and PRC - there is too much to loose for PRC. also money talks and there are many solutions and suggestions not many are talking about that would be ideal to everyone. also i dont think everyone has put any cards on the table yet.

for example - PRC might be bold and announce they will integrate some parts of southern PRC like shenzen formally into hong kong area ("Super Hong Kong") under the hong kong constitution and rules and laws. such a announcement alone will damper the electoral items and even make a diluted electoral reforms package within hong kong for 2017 like is mentioned - since one would need to look at the expanded area(s). the reason it will cater to the "democrats" is because they will have such principles enter "more" territory in PRC. also PRC will play to the Taiwan audience to showcase. if PRC does do that expect the economy of that region to rocket big time. but there are many other "solutions" that will be good for both PRC and Hong Kong.

but some juice to add to the dish:

UK will mobilise global community if China breaches 'one country, two systems': Nick Clegg | South China Morning Post

At the time, Lee called Cameron "very irresponsible" for not publicly speaking up for Hongkongers or the Joint Declaration during Li's visit, when China signed deals worth more than HK$230 billion with the UK.

"Clegg affirmed that the British government would honour the pledge made by former Prime Minister John Major in 1996 that, if China breached the 1984 treaty it signed with Britain on the handover of Hong Kong, Britain would mobilise the international community and pursue every legal and other avenue available," the press release reads.

After the meeting, Clegg criticised his Conservative Party coalition partners for failing to provide backing for its former colony, according to the Financial Times.
...

Chan and Lee are on their fifth day of a one-week trip to the UK, where they also met Hugo Swire, the British minister with responsibility for Hong Kong affairs.

The trip has been criticised by the state-run Global Times newspaper in China as inviting foreign interference in China's domestic affairs. The nationalist tabloid made similar criticisms when the pair visited the United States and Canada in April to draw international attention to the Hong Kong's campaign for democracy.
 

Ray

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The Guardian view on charges China is reneging on its Hong Kong promises

Democrats in Hong Kong and the Chinese government are at odds. If Beijing is not careful, there could be street violence and serious consequences for China's international relations


China is headed for a bruising clash with democrats in Hong Kong over its increasingly routine interference in the city's affairs, its new emphasis on the limitations of the territory's autonomy and, above all, on the arrangements for the election of the territory's leader in 2017. This was when many hoped that the provisions for indirect election through which Beijing has maintained informal control over Hong Kong politics would fall away and all adults would be able to choose a new chief executive from an unrestricted field of candidates.

Recent pronouncements by both Beijing and the Hong Kong government suggests this will not be allowed to happen, in spite of the huge demonstrations which have filled the streets and parks of the city over the summer. It is not impossible that serious violence could ensue, with some imagining that Chinese security forces might have to be brought in. That would be a dismal development for Hong Kong and profoundly counterproductive for China, with serious consequences in Taiwan, Japan and south-east Asia. China's president, Xi Jinping, would be wise to soften his line. Britain, which retains certain legal and moral responsibilities for Hong Kong, should make it clear that he should do so, but has so far been evading the issue.

Hong Kong is one of the world's great cities, a synthesis of British power, Scottish mercantile drive and Chinese intelligence, ingenuity and hard work. For most of its time under the British, it was run in a typically colonial way, with a technically efficient civil service flanked by committees of vetted local worthies to provide some quasi-democratic cover. The majority of its citizens, rich or poor, devoted themselves mainly to the business of making a living. This relatively quiescent community was probably what the Chinese expected to incorporate when they signed the Sino-British joint declaration in 1984. The declaration started the process which led to the handover of the city to the People's Republic in 1997, but, ironically, from the point of view of Beijing, it did so as Hong Kong began to flower politically and culturally. Its economy emerged from the sweatshop era, its universities expanded, its people began to travel and settle abroad and its middle class grew in numbers and sophistication. It saw cities such as Sydney, Melbourne, Vancouver and Seattle, where many of its young people went for their education, as its peers, and as models for its future. Britain's last governor, Christopher Patten, understood these changes and tried, to the obvious irritation of the Chinese, to accommodate them.

In the beginning the Chinese leaders probably saw the bargain behind the joint declaration more as between communism and capitalism than between one-party rule and democracy in the western sense. Hong Kong capitalists could get on with their job of making lots of money – although much more of it would end up in Beijing coffers than before – while Beijing would leave them alone, along with various quaint local customs, as long as they behaved in a "patriotic" way.

But Hong Kong had moved on, as had China itself. Hong Kong's democracy movement had roots in earlier attempts to get more representation in the British colony, but was also connected to reform aspirations on the broader Chinese stage, aspirations which were crushed or, at the very least, postponed by the Tiananmen Square massacre in 1989. It is symptomatic of the "delicate situation" which China then faced in Hong Kong that the annual Tiananmen commemoration in Victoria Park has become a powerful statement of identity and difference, and a way in which young people align themselves with the Chinese dissidents and liberals who try to keep the democratic cause alive in the People's Republic itself.

Clearly, unless and until democratic change in China and Hong Kong converge, there will be tension between Beijing and Hong Kong. But, as Lord Patten has said, that does not mean confrontation is unavoidable. Indeed, it makes it even more important that it be avoided, and Britain should publicly say so.

The Guardian view on charges China is reneging on its Hong Kong promises | Editorial | Comment is free | The Guardian
The Chinese Communist Govt is very crafty.

It wants to benefit from Hong Kong's economic model and and the same time sneakily and slowly encroach on its democratic freedom.

Typical of the Chinese mindset of having one's cake and eating it too and typically Communist!

The clash between the Hong Kong people and the CCP will have adverse effect on Mainland China.

It must be defused amicably and quietly, lest the 'virus' of freedom affects the other parts of China, especially those which are becoming commercial success stories leading to greater desire of individual and business freedom beyond the shackle of the Communist dogmas and fears.
 

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