History of Central and Eastern Europe

[Akim]

No, not seized, King have right to the city based on inheritance agreement with Bolesław Jerzy II of Mazovia that owned that city at this time, this means in 1340. In 1350 Lubart, prince of Lithuanian Dutches destroyed the city, that was rebuilded by Polish king Casimir III The Great in 1356, what is interesting is that king written in document that gives city it's rights a law, that all minorities, religions will be protected by crown.

Yes, You are right. The first time it had seized and robbed the Polish king Casimir III the Great In 1340.
I'm not a historian - I could be wrong. But this is not the meaning, and the fact that a Russian city (Lvov) was captured by the poles : in the 14th century.

 

[Damian]

Yes, You are right. The first time it had seized and robbed the Polish king Casimir III the Great In 1340.

No, the King Casimir rebuilded city after it was robbed and destroyed by Luber the Prince of Lithuanian Dutches.

I'm not a historian - I could be wrong.

Yes you are wrong.

But this is not the meaning, and the fact that a Russian city (Lvov) was captured by the poles : in the 14th century.

No, not that way, Lviv was founded by Данило Романович in 1250, for his son Lev (what is interesting is that Данило Романович was half Ruthenian and half Polish, his grandfathers wife was a Polish princess), this is why city have name Lviv, some time laters, in some way, city had been purchased or conquered by Boleslav George II, again he was not a king but local prince (although he was somehwat connected to the Piast dynasty), and after his death, based on inheritance agreement, it become a property of King Casimir III who rebuilded the city after Lithuanian prince Lubert, destroyed city in 1350.

Not destroyed it or robbed, why should he, kings back the, had much more profits by rebuilding cities, giving them rights, protecting local citizens etc.


It seems to me that the problem is very interesting, and in fact more problematic than I fought. City back then was mostly founded by a powerfull noble family or royal family members. Such families interbred with each other, and thus shared rights to their property, like city for example.

This means that it is immposible to decide who in the end have bigger rights to such property, because as we can see, even Rus King Данило Романович have both Polish and Ruthenian blood.

 

[Akim]

Then again, Russia might not be interested in to keeping this industry running.

Take in to consideration that for Russia, Ukrainian industry is competition, especially military industry, it is in best interest of Russia to shut down this industry, and instead promote their own products.

Desire to connect with Russia is shortsighted.

I said earlier is the main exporter of Ukrainian military products is Russia. Russia also exports the Ukrainian space products to the aviation, nuclear power production, ship-building, car-building, the automobile industry. For the amount of more than 10 billion dollars a year. Where is all to do with, if Russian sales area are closed for Ukraine?

 

[Damian]

I said earlier is the main exporter of Ukrainian military products is Russia. Russia also exports the Ukrainian space products to the aviation, nuclear power production, ship-building, car-building, the automobile industry. For the amount of more than 10 billion dollars a year. Where is all to do with, if Russian sales area are closed for Ukraine?

And you really believe that such situation will last for a longer time period? Russia is rebuilding it's industry, they might need some of Ukrainian products, but this will not be a situation lasting for ever, when Ukraine will not be needed, Russians will just abandone any further development.

Please tell me honestly, would you support someone that can be your competitor on world market?

Just think, which solution is more desired by Russians? Sponsor in fact a foreing country, or instead build up their own industry and pay their own people?

 

[pmaitra]

No, the King Casimir rebuilded city after it was robbed and destroyed by Luber the Prince of Lithuanian Dutches.

Well, Poles, Russians, Belo-Russians, Ukrainians, Czech-Slovaks, Yugoslavia (Southern-Slavs), are all Slavonic peoples. Even eastern Germany (not necessarily DDR; but most of older Prussia) had significant Slavonic peoples, while BundesStaaten with the word Saachsen are parts of Saxony (upper, lower, whatever), and contribute to the term Anglo-Saxon, the Anglo being from the Engels tribe. Speaking of Данило Романович having Polish blood, you would do well to know that Tsarina Ekaterina or Catherine was German as well, but completely adopted Russian language and culture and expanded Russian influence. It was Tsarina Catherine who first patronized Tatar language and established a department in Kazan University. So, blood is important, not it is not everything.

Also, we can link people by blood or we can link people by language. Thus,we have Ethnological Anthropology and Linguistic Anthropology, and by both counts, Russians, Belo-Russians, and Ukrainians, are brothers.

@Akim, correct me if I am wrong.


Edit: Corrected. Changed Casimir to Danilo.

 

[Damian]

Well, Poles, Russians, Belo-Russians, Ukrainians, Czech-Slovaks, Yugoslavia (Southern-Slavs), are all Slavonic peoples. Even eastern Germany (most of older Prussia) had significant Slavonic peoples, while BundesStaaten with the word Saachsen are parts of Saxony (upper, lower, whatever), and contribute to the term Anglo-Saxon, the Anglo being from the Engels tribe. Speaking of Casimir having Polish blood, you would do well to know that Tsarina Ekaterina or Catherine was German as well, but completely adopted Russian language and culture and expanded Russian influence. It was Tsarina Catherine who first patronized Tatar language and established a department in Kazan University. So, blood is important, not it is not everything.

Also, we can link people by blood or we can link people by language. Thus,we have Ethnological Anthropology and Linguistic Anthropology, and by both counts, Russians, Belo-Russians, and Ukrainians, are brothers.

What the hell you are talking about? :shocked:

You completely confused everything, go sleep.

Speaking of Casimir having Polish blood, you would do well to know that Tsarina Ekaterina or Catherine was German as well, but completely adopted Russian language and culture and expanded Russian influence. It was Tsarina Catherine who first patronized Tatar language and established a department in Kazan University. So, blood is important, not it is not everything.

Casimir 3rd the Great was a 100% native Polish King, he was from our original rulling Piast dynasty, I do not see any connection to Catherine The Great.

 

[pmaitra]

What the hell you are talking about? :shocked:

You completely confused everything, go sleep.

Sorry, I think we have information overload.

You said Данило Романович had Polish blood, and I am saying Poles and Russians are all Slavs, so what gives? Poles and Russians are brothers.

Sorry, not Casimir, I meant Danilo.

 

[Damian]

You said Данило Романович had Polish blood, and I am saying Poles and Russians are all Slavs, so what gives? Poles and Russians are brothers.

Genetically yes, however culture, mentality, everything else is very different, this is why we use roman alphabet and Russians use cyrillic.

Besides this, there is another problem, there were different slavi tribes. Poles, Czech, Slovaks are western Slavs, while Russians are eastern Slavs, which means that they are preaty much rather alien to us, western slavs, we do not share much commonalities to be fair.

Somewhat problematic is to classify Rus, or today Ukrainians, they seems to be influanced by both western and eastern Slavs, they are somewhat inbetween, however in language, we can observer greater influance of Russian, perhaps this is because historical events.

 

[Akim]

And you really believe that such situation will last for a longer time period? Russia is rebuilding it's industry, they might need some of Ukrainian products, but this will not be a situation lasting for ever, when Ukraine will not be needed, Russians will just abandone any further development.

Please tell me honestly, would you support someone that can be your competitor on world market?

Just think, which solution is more desired by Russians? Sponsor in fact a foreing country, or instead build up their own industry and pay their own people?

I do not support the integration of the Customs Union, I'm just giving you the facts and the realities of the fact that Ukraine is waiting in the event of the refusal of Russia to buy its products. Airbus generally destroy Antonov - as the most dangerous competitor.

 

[pmaitra]

What the hell you are talking about? :shocked:

You completely confused everything, go sleep.



Casimir 3rd the Great was a 100% native Polish King, he was from our original rulling Piast dynasty, I do not see any connection to Catherine The Great.

I used Tsarina Catherine as an example that a person's blood is not an indicator of a person's actions, culture, or political or nationalist affiliations.

So, Danilo Romanovich (Данило Романович) having Polish blood hardly makes a difference vis-a-vis Russia, because Russians and Poles are Slavic people.

 

[pmaitra]

Genetically yes, however culture, mentality, everything else is very different, this is why we use roman alphabet and Russians use cyrillic.

Besides this, there is another problem, there were different slavi tribes. Poles, Czech, Slovaks are western Slavs, while Russians are eastern Slavs, which means that they are preaty much rather alien to us, western slavs, we do not share much commonalities to be fair.

Somewhat problematic is to classify Rus, or today Ukrainians, they seems to be influanced by both western and eastern Slavs, they are somewhat inbetween, however in language, we can observer greater influance of Russian, perhaps this is because historical events.

Of course, I agree with what you are saying.

I am not saying Poles are exactly the same as Russians. There are subdivisions between Slavic people. It depends upon how deep you go. The deeper you go, the more pronounced is the difference.

 

[Akim]

@Akim, correct me if I am wrong..

I don't know if it Polish blood, but the fact that he fought against the Hungarians and the Poles - that's a fact.

 

[Akim]

Of course, I agree with what you are saying.

I am not saying Poles are exactly the same as Russians. There are subdivisions between Slavic people. It depends upon how deep you go. The deeper you go, the more pronounced is the difference.

Not quite so. The Poles and the Russians, too, the entire history of the war. That polish protege was sitting on thetsar throne of, Russia planted on a throne in Warsaw their king. Between these peoples historical dislike. And Ukraine in the midst of them.

 

[pmaitra]

Not quite so. The Poles and the Russians, too, the entire history of the war. That polish protege was sitting on thetsar throne of, Russia planted on a throne in Warsaw their king. Between these peoples historical dislike. And Ukraine in the midst of them.

I am not denying that. I was talking in a different sense. I think you misunderstood me.

 

[Akim]

@Damian
You asked the question, who is more supportive of old or young the Western course. I'm 35 years. I was born in the USSR, and the third part of my life it was my Motherland. And I am offended when young people from 18 to 20 years do not know their history. Leave the Holodomor and the historical injustice. We take the defense of Odessa in 1941. Here many of the streets are vesture dipped with the blood of the soldiers who defended the city. And now, they are named after the people of those who defended Odessa. Young people do not know why the streets are their names. Do not know why the central square 10 of April (the Day of liberation of Odessa), but know the Western Ukrainian heroes and UPA "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (which in Poland want to condemn). My grandfather (the son of a nobleman) was burning in a tank at Kursk, the defense of their Motherland, and I want to have it for my children remained a hero, and not those, who shot them in the back of the Soviet and Polish soldiers, under the slogan «For free Ukraine».

 

[Austin]

I do not support the integration of the Customs Union, I'm just giving you the facts and the realities of the fact that Ukraine is waiting in the event of the refusal of Russia to buy its products. Airbus generally destroy Antonov - as the most dangerous competitor.

Antonov is heavily subsidised by Russian Military and Civilian purchase take the instance of An-140 or An-70 purchase from Russian military or the marketing and sale of An-148 or An-158 .... almost 60 % of parts for Antnov aircraft comes from Russian factory.

Airbus will see little value promoting Ukranian aircraft that would be considered as bad business decision for them.

As far as Custom Union goes , its up to Ukranian to decide if they can join or not but the future of Euro itself in doubt no one knows for sure how long Euro will survive and how long Germany will carry the dead body of Europe on its back.

 

[Akim]

Antonov is heavily subsidised by Russian Military and Civilian purchase take the instance of An-140 or An-70 purchase from Russian military or the marketing and sale of An-148 or An-158 .... almost 60 % of parts for Antnov aircraft comes from Russian factory. .

Passenger planes Antonov - the only airplanes in the world that can be sold to Iran, Cuba and North Korea, because there is no American components.

 

[nrupatunga]

Basically west europe always tried and should one say that they were successful that slavs did not group together and threaten them. Though west europe wanted a buffer slavic region to take any hits from central asian tribes and islamic hordes. But they saw to it that they fight also fight among themselves as well.

 

[Austin]

Passenger planes Antonov - the only airplanes in the world that can be sold to Iran, Cuba and North Korea, because there is no American components.

Yes but the leasing and credit facility etc are routed through Russian banks.

Infact Russia has far greater number of Antonov in service both military and civil then Ukranian does and it receives significant support to maintain Antonov and other Ukranian industry specially in Space and Aviation.

 

[Akim]

Yes but the leasing and credit facility etc are routed through Russian banks.

Infact Russia has far greater number of Antonov in service both military and civil then Ukranian does and it receives significant support to maintain Antonov and other Ukranian industry specially in Space and Aviation.

That's why the industrial part of Ukraine, does not want to economic Association with Europe. Our high-tech products there will be no need. They have their analogues are.