Hindu Americans Rank Top in Education, Income

[santosh10]

Indian MBA students world's most academically distinguished

BANGALORE: It is students from IIM-Bangalore, not from Harvard or Stanford or even MIT, who excel at GMAT, the entrance test for the creme de la creme of B-schools across the world.

According to the QS Global 200 Business Schools report, Indian MBA candidates are the world's most academically distinguished, with students of the IIM-B, scoring the highest average of 780. :tup: IIM-B students are ahead of the leading US institution Stanford and INSEAD in Europe, the survey said.

While the average GMAT score of Stanford is 730, INSEAD lies at 704. Second to IIM-B students in GMAT score are their counterparts from IIM, Ahmedabad with 767.

The survey says, "IIM Ahmedabad is notable for the extraordinarily high average GMAT scores of its students, with its figure of 767 exceeded only by fellow Indian institution, IIM Bangalore (780). This places the two ahead of any North American or European school for the academic quality of their student intake. The fact that students enrolled at both schools have an average of just two years of professional experience underlines the tendency for academically gifted students to move quickly on to the MBA qualification at the outset of their careers, rather than using it to up-skill at mid career, as is more common in Europe and North America."

IIM-B also appears in the survey as one of the emerging global business schools across the world, overtaking Melbourne Business School.

"It is the testimony to high quality talent that our country has. It is no surprise that Indian students have outscored others from across the globe. What is needed now is the establishment of premier institutes like Harvard and Stanford in India as well, so that these young minds could express their intelligence in best possible manner. This is possible only when full autonomy is provided to the universities," said T V Mohandas Pai, chairman, Manipal Global Education Services.

"At the time of independence, our universities at Mumbai, Chennai, Calcutta, Mysore and Baroda were among the top 200 in the world. Today, they do not fare in any ranking at all. This is the result of bad government policy. Full autonomy, independent board of governors and focus on research are the factors crucial for a good university," said Pai.

The colleges were also judged on different subjects under their programme. In corporate social responsibility, IIM-B ranked 21 among the top 50 business colleges across the globe, whereas IIM-A grabbed 19th rank. :coffee:

When it comes to emphasis on start-ups and small businesses to kick-start private sector growth ( entrepreneurship), IIM-B ranked 25 and IIM-A ranked 17. Under 'innovation', IIM-B was placed at 17th with a score of 90.6, whereas IIM-A ranked 13, with a score of 97.4 out of 100.

QS is an online and offline meeting place for aspiring managers, B-schools and businesses for career and educational -related decisions.

Many leaders in India

For the leadership development programme, four colleges from India feature among top 50 universities. They are: IIM-A, IIM-B, IIM-C and Indian School of Business (ISB).:tup:

Highlights of the survey

Schools ranked for employer reputation in 10 subject specializations. Harvard tops the table in three subjects, ahead of Stanford and MIT with two apiece. Wharton is number one for finance

Three Asian schools make the Elite global category: INSEAD Singapore, IIM-A and NUS Business School, National University of Singapore

No Elite Global schools in either Africa and Middle East, or Latin America

Indian MBA students world's most academically distinguished: Survey - The Times of India

//timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home/education/news/Indian-MBA-students-worlds-most-academically-distinguished-Survey/articleshow/17749898.cms

Indian Americans: The New Model Minority - Forbes
02.24.09

The 2008 election barely ended before the GOP began touting the presidential prospects of Louisiana Gov. Piyush "Bobby" Jindal, the son of Indian immigrants. Tuesday, Jindal becomes the new face of his party when he delivers the official Republican response to President Obama's speech to Congress. Whether or not he actually runs for president in 2012, Jindal symbolizes a remarkable but rarely discussed phenomenon--the amazing success of Indian Americans in general, and what that success says about our immigration policy.

Most Americans know only one thing about Indians--they are really good at spelling bees. When Sameer Mishra correctly spelled guerdon last May to win the 2008 Scripps National Spelling Bee, he became the sixth Indian-American winner in the past 10 years. Finishing second was Sidharth Chand. Kavya Shivashankar took fourth place, and Janhnavi Iyer grabbed the eighth spot. And this was not even the banner year for Indian Americans--in 2005, the top four finishers were all of Indian descent.

It's tempting to dismiss Indian-American dominance of the spelling bee as just a cultural idiosyncrasy. But Indian success in more important fields is just as eye-catching. Despite constituting less than 1% of the U.S. population, Indian-Americans are 3% of the nation's engineers, 7% of its IT workers and 8% of its physicians and surgeons. The over-representation of Indians in these fields is striking--in practical terms, your doctor is nine times more likely to be an Indian-American than is a random passerby on the street.

Indian Americans are in fact a new "model minority." This term dates back to the 1960s, when East Asians--Americans of Chinese, Japanese and Korean descent--were noted for their advanced educations and high earnings.

East Asians continue to excel in the U.S, but among minority groups, Indians are clearly the latest and greatest "model." In 2007, the median income of households headed by an Indian American was approximately $83,000, compared with $61,000 for East Asians and $55,000 for whites. :ranger:

About 69% of Indian Americans age 25 and over have four-year college degrees, which dwarfs the rates of 51% and 30% achieved by East Asians and whites, respectively. Indian Americans are also less likely to be poor or in prison, compared with whites.

So why do Indian Americans perform so well? A natural answer is self-selection. Someone willing to pull up roots and move halfway around the world will tend to be more ambitious and hardworking than the average person. But people want to come to the U.S. for many reasons, some of which--being reunited with other family members, for example--have little to do with industriousness. Ultimately, immigration policy decides which kinds of qualities our immigrants possess.

Under our current immigration policy, a majority of legal immigrants to the U.S. obtain green cards (permanent residency) because they have family ties to U.S. citizens, but a small number (15% in 2007) are selected specifically for their labor market value. The proportion of Indian immigrants given an employment-related green card is one of the highest of any nationality. Consequently, it is mainly India's educated elite and their families who come to the U.S.

The success of Indian Americans is also often ascribed to the culture they bring with them, which places strong--some would even say obsessive--emphasis on academic achievement. Exhibit A is the spelling bee, which requires long hours studying etymology and memorizing word lists, all for little expected benefit other than the thrill of intellectual competition.

But education and culture can take people only so far. To be a great speller--or, more importantly, a great doctor or IT manager--you have to be smart. Just how smart are Indian Americans? We don't know with much certainty. Most data sets with information on ethnic groups do not include IQ scores, and the few that do rarely include enough cases to provide interpretable results for such a small portion of the population.

The only direct evidence we have comes from the 2003 New Immigrant Survey, in which a basic cognitive test called "digit span" was administered to a sample of newly arrived immigrant children. It is an excellent test for comparing people with disparate language and educational backgrounds, since the test taker need only repeat lengthening sequences of digits read by the examiner. Repeating the digits forward is simply a test of short-term memory, but repeating them backward is much more mentally taxing, hence a rough measure of intelligence.

When statistical adjustments are used to convert the backward digit span results to full-scale IQ scores, Indian Americans place at about 112 on a bell-shaped IQ distribution, with white Americans at 100. 112 is the 79th percentile of the white distribution. For more context, consider that Ashkenazi Jews are a famously intelligent ethnic group, and their mean IQ is somewhere around 110. :ranger:

Given the small sample size, the rough IQ measure and the lack of corroborating data sets, this finding of lofty Indian-American intelligence must be taken cautiously. Nevertheless, it is entirely consistent with their observed achievement.

The superior educational attainment, academic culture and likely high IQ of Indian Americans has already made them an economic force in the U.S., and that strength can only grow. Does this continuing success imply they will become a political force? Here, Gov. Jindal is actually a rarity. Indians are still underrepresented in politics, and they do not specialize in the kinds of fields (law and finance) most conducive to political careers. Time will tell if they are able to convert economic power into serious political influence, as a Jindal presidency could.

A much clearer implication of Indian-American success is that immigrants need not be unskilled, nor must their economic integration take generations to achieve. In sharp contrast to Indian Americans, most U.S. immigrants, especially Mexican, are much less wealthy and educated than U.S. natives, even after many years in the country. :tup:

A new immigration policy that prioritizes skills over family reunification could bring more successful immigrants to the U.S. By emphasizing education, work experience and IQ in our immigration policy, immigrant groups from other national backgrounds could join the list of model minorities.

There is nothing inevitable about immigration. Who immigrates each year is a policy decision, free to be modified at any time by Congress. Constructing new legislation is always difficult, but I propose a simple starting point for immigration selection: Anyone who can spell guerdon is in! :thumb:

forbes.com/2009/02/24/bobby-jindal-indian-americans-opinions-contributors_immigrants_minority.html

 

[santosh10]

How Immigration Has Impoverished Britain:

75% of Pakistani and Bangladeshi Children Live in Poverty

Claims that immigration is economically beneficial for Britain have been destroyed by news that three-quarters of Pakistani and Bangladeshi children in the UK are being brought up in families that are living on poverty-level income. :ranger:

The report, issued by Millennium Cohort Study, which is tracking children born between 2000 and 2002, has found that 73 per cent of the Pakistani and Bangladeshi seven-year olds were in families estimated to be living on less than 60 per cent of the average national household income.

Just over half of the black children (51 percent) in the Millennium cohort were in such low-income families, compared with one in four white (26 percent) and Indian (25percent) children, said an official press release.

Predictably, low income was strongly linked to joblessness among parents, say researchers at the Institute of Education, University of London, who collected information from almost 14,000 families in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in 2008/9.

According to the report, among fathers, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis had the highest unemployment rate (15 percent) well above the UK average of 6 per cent. Unemployment among black fathers was also high (11 percent) but Indians were less likely to be unemployed (4 percent) than whites (5.5 percent).

Almost two-thirds (64 percent) of white and Indian mothers had jobs :thumb:, compared with half (52 percent) of black mothers and only 17 per cent of Pakistani and Bangladeshi mothers.

A much higher proportion of children in lone-parent families (63 percent) were living below the study's poverty line than those with married (16percent) or cohabiting (30 percent) parents.

The incidence of income poverty for the Millennium cohort families has not changed appreciably over the first seven years of the children's lives, says Professor Heather Joshi, the study's director.

Despite government efforts to eradicate child poverty almost three in 10 children are still in poor families at age 7. It's particularly disappointing that around one in five seven-year-olds is in severe poverty on incomes below half the national average.

The findings appear in a report published today by the Institute of Education's Centre for Longitudinal Studies: Millennium Cohort Study, Fourth Survey: A User's Guide to Initial Findings. Copies of the report can be downloaded here.

bnp.org.uk/news/how-immigration-has-impoverished-britain-75-pakistani-and-bangladeshi-children-%E2%80%9Clive-poverty%E2%80%9D

we have a similar new as below too :ranger:

irr.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Poverty_1.jpg

State of the nationreport: poverty, worklessness andwelfare dependencyin the UK

Risk of poverty is unevenly spread in terms of region, ethnicity, household structure and disability status. Over half (52%) of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are in relative poverty, while children living in families with at least one disabled member have a 29% chance of living in poverty, compared with 20% for those living in families with no disabled member. The additional costs associated with (Religious) disability mean that a narrow focus on incomes does not fully capture the levels of disadvantage experienced.

[bristol.ac.uk/poverty/downloads/keyofficialdocuments/CONDEM%20-poverty-report.pdf]

[bristol.ac.uk/poverty/downloads/keyofficialdocuments/CONDEM%20-poverty-report.pdf]

 

[santosh10]

double post

 

[prohumanity]

Interesting thread....indeed. We Indian-Americans push our children hard to get good education as our native motherland India taught us "knowledge is ultimate power." Believe or not...longer we live in USA...more we value and respect the depth of Indian Civilization and culture. Most of the Indian Americans have love and warm regard for Mother India who enabled us to be so useful to any other nation. The gratitude can not be described in words.

 

[santosh10]

Interesting thread....indeed. We Indian-Americans push our children hard to get good education as our native motherland India taught us "knowledge is ultimate power." Believe or not...longer we live in USA...more we value and respect the depth of Indian Civilization and culture. Most of the Indian Americans have love and warm regard for Mother India who enabled us to be so useful to any other nation. The gratitude can not be described in words.

look, 99%+ literacy rate of US/UK/Australia/Canada includes more than 70%+ under high school passed people only, if we count only those born in US/UK/Australia/Canada, excluding migrants who are mostly high qualified......

if your kids have upbringing there then it would certainly affect their competency on the side of education, you simply can't compete with the students of India, you simply can't sit on competition with Indian students like how we have different competitive exams here....

in western nation, we have life based on enjoying it with fullest, while in India its more about hard work, commitment with the work/study, as compare to drink in bars and run over any girl you find there, including easy availability of drugs etc too... this topic is discussed in the thread as below :thumb:

//defenceforumindia.com/forum/religion-culture/64399-high-crime-rate-us-west-india-study-8.html#post1021655

.

 

[prohumanity]

Santosh...the bottomline is that when a society becomes too greedy and selfish ...it does not care about its own children....In west...unfortunately, profit has become God and all values have been thrown out of the window.

 

[mattster]

This idiotic thread has been repeated multiple times before in DFI:
But some new member always comes along, and restarts a new thread bragging about "Indians being the highest earning group in the US"

For the benefit of all you newcomers to DFI - let me say it again:

Indians who migrate to the US come from the upper 10%(middle class or upper middle class) both in family income and schooling and usually from the better schools in India......and more importantly they come to the US mainly to do their Masters as it takes only 2 years and not 4 years like a bachelors, so its cheaper and faster. They are mostly engineering graduates, and so they are able to get good paying jobs right out of school.

This means that they are not at all typical of the regular Indian population.....if you understand anything about population statistics, This is not a normal distribution.....it is a skewed distribution. Indians in the US are a small subsection consisting of mostly the upper middle class & the wealthy class from India.

So its no surprise that these Indians top in income and more importantly Indians and Chinese stay back in the US unlike students from Latin America who go back home.

Here is the analogy: If you took just 5% of the top 10% of all American engineering undergraduates and sent them to China for their Masters or PhD, and then they ended up staying and settling down in China - then pretty soon after 20 years, you would find that Americans will be the highest earning income group of all different nationalities in China ?

So what does this really mean ? - nothing much except that you have been losing or exporting your best local talent instead of keeping it at home

Compare that to Mexicans - only the poorest Mexicans migrate to the US......no middle-class Mexican is ever going to migrate to the US as an illegal immigrant. So a lot of Americans think all Mexicans are good for is picking apples and strawberries and manual labor. But if you go to Mexico, you will see a big 20-30% of the population are middle class and educated and many times bilingual. But they wont come to the US unless they come for college and go back to Mexico after finishing college.

So the population stats show Mexicans as one of the poorest communities in the US.

So what does this really mean ? - nothing much except the Mexicans who migrated to the US were poorest and most desperate subsection of the Mexican population. The middle class and upper middle class Mexicans are doing just fine in their own country.


I hope this was educational !!


BTW: the above argument also applies to the Chinese community in the US, except that the Chinese community here is the US is mostly professional but also a smaller subsection of blue-collar restaurant workers, etc which makes their average household income level a bit lower than Indians.

 

[tarunraju]

This idiotic thread has been repeated multiple times before in DFI:......

^Give him a cookie.

The reflected-glory mode that so many people activate over such pointless stats, is what's wrong in India. You have Indian media ignoring achievements and positive news from home, while focusing on the achievements of Indian-origin people who have given up Indian citizenship, so the locals get an inflated sense of self-worth. As Bobby Jindal aptly put it, "we [PIOs] came here to be Americans, not Indian-Americans."

You don't have people from PRC basking in the reflected-glory of wealthy Chinese in freaking Singapore (who pride themselves in being Singaporeans first), or even PRC people basking in Hong Kong's glory. Mainland Chinese acknowledge that HK is a "better off" place, but are hopeful that decades of working their ass out will make mainland Chinese cities better than Hong Kong. So they're focused on doing that.

The ultimate Indian bragging-right right now is a student visa to the US. And that's a tragedy. For India.

 

[Otm Shank2]

This idiotic thread has been repeated multiple times before in DFI:
But some new member always comes along, and restarts a new thread bragging about "Indians being the highest earning group in the US"

For the benefit of all you newcomers to DFI - let me say it again:

Indians who migrate to the US come from the upper 10%(middle class or upper middle class) both in family income and schooling and usually from the better schools in India......and more importantly they come to the US mainly to do their Masters as it takes only 2 years and not 4 years like a bachelors, so its cheaper and faster. They are mostly engineering graduates, and so they are able to get good paying jobs right out of school.

This means that they are not at all typical of the regular Indian population.....if you understand anything about population statistics, This is not a normal distribution.....it is a skewed distribution. Indians in the US are a small subsection consisting of mostly the upper middle class & the wealthy class from India.

So its no surprise that these Indians top in income and more importantly Indians and Chinese stay back in the US unlike students from Latin America who go back home.

Here is the analogy: If you took just 5% of the top 10% of all American engineering undergraduates and sent them to China for their Masters or PhD, and then they ended up staying and settling down in China - then pretty soon after 20 years, you would find that Americans will be the highest earning income group of all different nationalities in China ?

So what does this really mean ? - nothing much except that you have been losing or exporting your best local talent instead of keeping it at home

Compare that to Mexicans - only the poorest Mexicans migrate to the US......no middle-class Mexican is ever going to migrate to the US as an illegal immigrant. So a lot of Americans think all Mexicans are good for is picking apples and strawberries and manual labor. But if you go to Mexico, you will see a big 20-30% of the population are middle class and educated and many times bilingual. But they wont come to the US unless they come for college and go back to Mexico after finishing college.

So the population stats show Mexicans as one of the poorest communities in the US.

So what does this really mean ? - nothing much except the Mexicans who migrated to the US were poorest and most desperate subsection of the Mexican population. The middle class and upper middle class Mexicans are doing just fine in their own country.


I hope this was educational !!


BTW: the above argument also applies to the Chinese community in the US, except that the Chinese community here is the US is mostly professional but also a smaller subsection of blue-collar restaurant workers, etc which makes their average household income level a bit lower than Indians.

You are wrong. most PIO are not from some imagined 10% elite classes... Most are hard working from middle or lower class families that start their hard work getting an education then continue professionally. Ive never met any indian that came here (to Canada) wealthy but I've met many Indians I'm not sure why you use convoluted comparisons to mexican or chinese immigration to prove a non point

You should just come to terms that Indians and chinese do well because they outwork most other demographic groups in north america. Their deep commitmwnt to education and family also creates stability to the means to better themselves...

The only thing you educated us on the attitude of americans to reason away the success of immigrants and minorities and try to fan contempt for them as undeserving of the fruits of their hard work is alive and well in old americans .

 

[Otm Shank2]

^Give him a cookie.

The reflected-glory mode that so many people activate over such pointless stats, is what's wrong in India. You have Indian media ignoring achievements and positive news from home, while focusing on the achievements of Indian-origin people who have given up Indian citizenship, so the locals get an inflated sense of self-worth. As Bobby Jindal aptly put it, "we [PIOs] came here to be Americans, not Indian-Americans."

You don't have people from PRC basking in the reflected-glory of wealthy Chinese in freaking Singapore (who pride themselves in being Singaporeans first), or even PRC people basking in Hong Kong's glory. Mainland Chinese acknowledge that HK is a "better off" place, but are hopeful that decades of working their ass out will make mainland Chinese cities better than Hong Kong. So they're focused on doing that.

The ultimate Indian bragging-right right now is a student visa to the US. And that's a tragedy. For India.

When has Bobby Jindal ever been a spokesperson or leader for the poi community? I'd rather judge the pio's community from their actions and words like selling out madison square garden when PM Modi came to america to community support for that indian grandfather attacked by the police..to building massive temples and diwali parades... Its obvious that most pio firmly see themselves as Indian.

The chinese see themselves as chinese where ever they go. its why they set up (china) towns within any city they have more than two chinese people... Where they have no semblance of non chinese culture in. Ive seen dozen of posts from chinese posters on pdf and other sites that brag about sino Singapore money pouring into china in the 90s

 

[Otm Shank2]

^Give him a cookie.

The reflected-glory mode that so many people activate over such pointless stats, is what's wrong in India. You have Indian media ignoring achievements and positive news from home, while focusing on the achievements of Indian-origin people who have given up Indian citizenship, so the locals get an inflated sense of self-worth. As Bobby Jindal aptly put it, "we [PIOs] came here to be Americans, not Indian-Americans."

You don't have people from PRC basking in the reflected-glory of wealthy Chinese in freaking Singapore (who pride themselves in being Singaporeans first), or even PRC people basking in Hong Kong's glory. Mainland Chinese acknowledge that HK is a "better off" place, but are hopeful that decades of working their ass out will make mainland Chinese cities better than Hong Kong. So they're focused on doing that.

The ultimate Indian bragging-right right now is a student visa to the US. And that's a tragedy. For India.

When has Bobby Jindal ever been a spokesperson or leader for the poi community? I'd rather judge the pio's community from their actions and words like selling out madison square garden when PM Modi came to america to community support for that indian grandfather attacked by the police..to building massive temples and diwali parades... Its obvious that most pio firmly see themselves as Indian.

The chinese see themselves as chinese where ever they go. its why they set up (china) towns within any city they have more than two chinese people... Where they have no semblance of non chinese culture in. Ive seen dozen of posts from chinese posters on pdf and other sites that brag about sino Singapore money pouring into china in the 90s

 

[tarunraju]

When has Bobby Jindal ever been a spokesperson or leader for the poi community?

Representing a large number of people is kinda his job description.

I'd rather judge the pio's community from their actions and words like selling out madison square garden when PM Modi came to america to community support.

The Godfather effect rubbed off on every ethnicity in the US. That, however, must not be misconstrued as patriotism directed toward said ethnicity's country (India in this case). Everyone who came to MSG will die for the US at the drop of a hat. Except Modi.

They may love India, but their allegiance is to the US. Their achievements are in America's interests, not India's. The chump-change they send India as remittance to their folks doesn't count.

community support for that indian grandfather attacked by the police..

That man is an Indian citizen visiting his family in the US. Indian people have every right to be angry at the US for that. In the end, he is being represented in court by an white-American lawyer named Hank Sherrod, on his son's coin (unless he wins a settlement). Guess who's paying his hospital bills, not the people who went to MSG!

to building massive temples and diwali parades...

Oh you mean like Lunar New Year in Chinatown and St. Patty's Day, celebrated by....American Citizens?! Do you see those Chinatown folks give two shits about farmer-rights in Fujian/Guangdong? Do you see Irish-origin people give two shits about Ireland's problems? Of course not! PIOs rarely give a damn about India's problems.


Just to be clear, the crux of my argument is, feel proud about the accomplishments of Indians, in India. Maybe they don't win million-dollar patents or become CEOs of MNCs everyday, but small accomplishments are more in India's interests than reflected-glory from people who won't benefit India in any tangible way.

 

[Mad Indian]

I cant remember the thread, but there was one in which the PIOs here where saying that Indians should not expect anything from the PIOs and should get a life.

And here we are supposed to celebrate their success? Sorry folks, you cant have a cake and eat it too.
Found it
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/members-corner/66602-portrait-desi-american-wannabe-2.html

 

[Otm Shank2]

Representing a large number of people is kinda his job description.



The Godfather effect rubbed off on every ethnicity in the US. That, however, must not be misconstrued as patriotism directed toward said ethnicity's country (India in this case). Everyone who came to MSG will die for the US at the drop of a hat. Except Modi.

They may love India, but their allegiance is to the US. Their achievements are in America's interests, not India's. The chump-change they send India as remittance to their folks doesn't count.



That man is an Indian citizen visiting his family in the US. Indian people have every right to be angry at the US for that. In the end, he is being represented in court by an white-American lawyer named Hank Sherrod, on his son's coin (unless he wins a settlement). Guess who's paying his hospital bills, not the people who went to MSG!



Oh you mean like Lunar New Year in Chinatown and St. Patty's Day, celebrated by....American Citizens?! Do you see those Chinatown folks give two shits about farmer-rights in Fujian/Guangdong? Do you see Irish-origin people give two shits about Ireland's problems? Of course not! PIOs rarely give a damn about India's problems.


Just to be clear, the crux of my argument is, feel proud about the accomplishments of Indians, in India. Maybe they don't win million-dollar patents or become CEOs of MNCs everyday, but small accomplishments are more in India's interests than reflected-glory from people who won't benefit India in any tangible way.

He was voted in by a large group of people who are 99 percent non indian heritage. being seen as not indian is pertinent to his political survival. hence his qoute

The godfather effect is about an ethnicity being cool in pop culture that transcends ethnicity. Italians are cool with mafia stereotype. african americans with rap and other music. Nothing cool about indian culture in the west. Those people came to see modi cause they care about their heritage and well being of their community. They have deep seeded sentimental feelings for culture.

Yes they would, no decent person would turn on their neighbor or Nation. Doesnt stop me from being able to empathize and be interested with the indian community beyond bharat.

The attack on that poor man was a shock to the pio community and many empathize cause we alk have relatives that visit us from abriad that it could have happened to.Im sure many pio donated to his kickstarter(?) drive?

I dont know canadians that give two ishes about canadian farmer rights lol. you cant really expect the average person to care about specific issues. they care about the general well being of the community. maybe specific issues more sometimes (religious) or regional ( punjabi, tamil) but not ish like farmers rights. pios do care and the west routinely demeans indias problems its no secret what motherland issues are..the first step of decisive stable government is a reality ...now to move forward

The crux of your argument is about sour grapes. we can still appreciate, celebrate, empathize and most importantly SUPPORT each other as a community regardless of arbitrary nationstates. Bharat is a Civilization state and a cultural state. a pio can still be loyal to india similar to a Catholic can be a patriotic american and still follow the vatican or a jew can be a loyal american butfurther Israel's well being

 

[mattster]

You are wrong. most PIO are not from some imagined 10% elite classes... Most are hard working from middle or lower class families that start their hard work getting an education then continue professionally. Ive never met any indian that came here (to Canada) wealthy but I've met many Indians I'm not sure why you use convoluted comparisons to mexican or chinese immigration to prove a non point

You should just come to terms that Indians and chinese do well because they outwork most other demographic groups in north america. Their deep commitmwnt to education and family also creates stability to the means to better themselves...

The only thing you educated us on the attitude of americans to reason away the success of immigrants and minorities and try to fan contempt for them as undeserving of the fruits of their hard work is alive and well in old americans .

First of all - India's true middle class is only about 20%-25% of the population......the other 80% is divided among lower middle class or poor or so poor they can barely feed themselves.

I am a Malayalee myself whose parents are both from Kerala and still live there. I have been here for 25 years.
I literally have known and worked with hundreds of Indians in 3 states in the US.
Not a single one of those Indians that I have known personally came from what I consider to be poor or lower middle-class families by Indian standards.

Even the nurses from Kerala are from middle class families. With the exception of a few Punjabi cab drivers and a few Gujus runnning motels, and restaurants and stores - almost all Indian migration to the US is professional class ......mainly engineers and doctors and nurses. Even the Gujus running motels with no education are loaded and did not come here with nothing in their pockets.

I cannot speak for Canada.......Canada had a very different immigration policy than the US. Canada may indeed have lots of Sikhs and Indians who are labourer blue-collar class. I have yet to see a single Indian construction worker or carpenter or fireman or even an Indian Police officer after more than 20 years here.

 

[Otm Shank2]

@mattster respect for your experience. I think you're right about location and also perspective plays a role in it.
what is middle class in india doesnt have the same economic ability in the west. there are indeed a ton of sikhs who started as truck drivers and in forestry and then opened their own companies as they gained experience and saved money up. met many others like bengalis and tamils who have done the same.

 

[Peter]

Representing a large number of people is kinda his job description.



The Godfather effect rubbed off on every ethnicity in the US. That, however, must not be misconstrued as patriotism directed toward said ethnicity's country (India in this case). Everyone who came to MSG will die for the US at the drop of a hat. Except Modi.

They may love India, but their allegiance is to the US. Their achievements are in America's interests, not India's. The chump-change they send India as remittance to their folks doesn't count.



That man is an Indian citizen visiting his family in the US. Indian people have every right to be angry at the US for that. In the end, he is being represented in court by an white-American lawyer named Hank Sherrod, on his son's coin (unless he wins a settlement). Guess who's paying his hospital bills, not the people who went to MSG!



Oh you mean like Lunar New Year in Chinatown and St. Patty's Day, celebrated by....American Citizens?! Do you see those Chinatown folks give two shits about farmer-rights in Fujian/Guangdong? Do you see Irish-origin people give two shits about Ireland's problems? Of course not! PIOs rarely give a damn about India's problems.


Just to be clear, the crux of my argument is, feel proud about the accomplishments of Indians, in India. Maybe they don't win million-dollar patents or become CEOs of MNCs everyday, but small accomplishments are more in India's interests than reflected-glory from people who won't benefit India in any tangible way.

Sir, I do not think we can brush away the achievements of Indian Americans so easily. The Indians who go to America have toiled day and night. They have, as they say in the cliched proverb,burnt the midnight oil. We should indeed be proud of Indian Americans and their achievements. They had to endure racial discrimination and other such troubles to achieve greatness. Also I know that there are no hyphenated Americans but Indian Americans are as patriotic as we are.
Also @Mad Indian

 

[Peter]

@mattster respect for your experience. I think you're right about location and also perspective plays a role in it.
what is middle class in india doesnt have the same economic ability in the west. there are indeed a ton of sikhs who started as truck drivers and in forestry and then opened their own companies as they gained experience and saved money up. met many others like bengalis and tamils who have done the same.

I agree with you. Indians who have migrated to foreign countries had to work very hard to get there. Also most of them are doctors and engineers.

 

[Otm Shank2]

I agree with you. Indians who have migrated to foreign countries had to work very hard to get there. Also most of them are doctors and engineers.

I think the best proof of this all Indos.. Ive known indians from Tanzania, south africa, fiji, trinidad, guyana.. all have come to North America and the UK and have the same devotion to culture and bettering themselves and their families through education and hard work.

 

[Mad Indian]

Sir, I do not think we can brush away the achievements of Indian Americans so easily. The Indians who go to America have toiled day and night. They have, as they say in the cliched proverb,burnt the midnight oil.

No one is disputing that.

We should indeed be proud of Indian Americans and their achievements.

There is no reason for that, when India has nothing to do with their achievements. And they are very clear that they dont owe us anything and by logic, we dont owe them anything either

They had to endure racial discrimination and other such troubles to achieve greatness.

None of our concern. People who migrated migrated on their own choice knowing full well what was in store for them there in US. They are the ones who have to endure the consequences of it- be it racism or be it success.

Also I know that there are no hyphenated Americans but Indian Americans are as patriotic as we are.
Also @Mad Indian

Patriotic to whom?