HF-24 Marut

[Dhairya Yadav]

IAF and HAL need to cooperate on these issues. frankly, i think these projects should be handed to private firms as they are a little more obedient than these PSUs... Govt. should promote more private defence industries... Right now only major(indian) private aerospace firm is Mahindra Aerospace.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

All those years in past, Government of past neglected any organization that is beneficial for India ..

DRDO for example is not given funds to make its research centers, They had to go outside for foreign assistance in other words in foreign mercy, Interestingly the partners chosen for DRDO`s collaboration are the one from who we buy in other words we pump their economy ..

DRDO even restricted from recruiting scientists, And over that they are forced to work on multiple projects under Gov ..

Kaveri project died because of lack of funds, HF-24 died because Indra thought buying MIG-21 is best for diplomacy ..

OFB on other hand producing state of art Rifles at 1800 to latest 60 era factory, Gov never did anything back then to improve ..

Our scientific community members are murdered in broad day light by foreign lobby assassins, And still their is no protection ..

Does all this goes so casually in Brazil, South Korea and China ?

=======

Fighers/strike aircraft proposed after Hf-24 Marut

Ground Attack Fighter, GAF-1 to be powered by Rolls Royce-Snecma M45, comparable to F4 Phantom. Turned down my MoD. Subsequent GAF-2 proposal with improvements also turned down.

The HAL design team went back to an improved Hf-24 Marut to minimise design risk. Not cleared.

Advanced Strike Aircraft ASA proposal met IAF's requirement, not cleared for prototyping.

HSS-73/HF-73 Hindustan Supersonic Strike aircraft proposed by MBB and HAL using Rolls Royce RB-199 engine used in Tornado. Dropped due to non clearance of engine.

Air Superiority fighter ASF-300. Engine was supposed to be Indian GTX or from Snecma. Proposal did not meet air staff requirements.

Return to a modernised Marut concept.

Hf-23M53, would have been comparable to Jaguar in payload and range. Not cleared. (The image might be of the earlier marut proposal)

Further improvement to Marut.

Result, HF-25 with a new engine. Also not cleared.

Had even a single one of these proposals approved, the design capabilities would not have been lost.

Shared by @Twinblade at MP.net

HAL, country's dominant aeronautical manufacturer, aspires to make India an important aircraft manufacturer. Design and development of a basic trainer (HT-2) progressed impressively immediately after independence, followed by HF-24. "The D&D effort of HF 24 was however not taken forward due to various sins of commission and omission on the part of all stakeholders and especially for want of a suitable engine," said the report. Indian aerospace industry thus lost more than two decades, and started again from the drawing board stage with the LCA (light combat aircraft) programme.

=======

Lets be clear, The board does not have guts to finger out real culprits but the once already being abused ..

 

[Kharavela]

Excellent thread for information on "India's lost opportunities". Thank you @Jagdish58

 

[The Ultranationalist]

Sebastien Roblin
August 13, 2017

A renewed offensive was being organized at the break of dawn when the Marut jets of 10 Squadron, reinforced by four Hawker Hunters, descended on the battlefield, unleashing T-10 rockets and spitting thirty-millimeter cannon shells at the bogged-down armor in what was described as a “turkey shoot.” By the afternoon, the attack planes had destroyed an additional twenty-two tanks and at least a hundred more vehicles, bringing what should have been an overwhelming assault smashing to a halt. This outcome is particularly remarkable as the Indian aircraft did not benefit from the specialized guided antitank missiles that give modern ground-attack planes high lethality against tanks. Indian ground forces counterattacked by noon, sending the Pakistani force into full retreat, setting the tone for the remainder of the war on the Western front.

The Marut remained in the thick of the action throughout the thirteen-day war, strafing airfields, bombing ammunitions dumps, and hitting tanks and artillery on the frontlines—flying over two hundred sorties and suffering three losses to ground fire. A fourth Marut was destroyed on the ground while taxiing on the runway at Uttarlai by a strafing Pakistani Air Force F-104 Starfighter. Nonetheless, the HF-24s boasted a high serviceability rate and proved quite tough, with several of the jets managing to return to base on just one engine after the other was shot up. Major Bakshi of 220 Squadron even scored an air-to-air kill in his Marut on December 7 when he pounced upon a Pakistani F-86 Sabre, a Korean War–era jet fighter.

After the conflict, there were several proposals to improve the HF-24 by installing more-powerful engines (the Marut Mark 1R and 2), but the Indian Air Force had little interest in investing further in the Marut when it could acquire faster and heavier-lifting Su-7, MiG-23 and MiG-27 fighter-bombers from the Soviet Union. The HF-24 began to be phased out of Indian squadrons in the 1980s, with the last aircraft being retired from 31 Squadron in 1990. Many of the airframes had only seen very limited use. Now the homemade jets serve on, only as monuments throughout India.

There are a couple of lessons to be drawn from the story of the Marut. The first regards how poor planning and a lack of direction can cripple even a promising project. Bureaucracy and corruption have caused many Indian defense projects to drag out so long that the systems being acquired are obsolete by the time the red tape has been overcome.

However, the main problem underlying the Marut program remains hardly unique to India. Quite simply, acquiring or building powerful jet engines remains a major stumbling block even for nations that command considerable financial resources, such as China. This explains New Delhi’s continuing interest today in acquiring new jet engine technology from the United States and Russia.

The other lesson is that effective application can be more important than maximizing technical merits. The Marut may have been a mediocre fighter, but at Longewala, the attack jet’s abilities were called upon exactly where they were need, when they were needed and in a situation where they could have maximum impact. Many technically superior weapons are never employed under such favorable circumstances; thus, India’s Marut jet fighter, though considered a failed design, more than pulled its weight in an actual combat.

Sébastien Roblin holds a master’s degree in conflict resolution from Georgetown University and served as a university instructor for the Peace Corps in China. He has also worked in education, editing and refugee resettlement in France and the United States. He currently writes on security and military history for War Is Boring.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/in...jet-fighter-proved-itself-combat-21875?page=2

 

[lcafanboy]

When British Thanked India for Killing its own HF-73 Program for Jaguars
Published August 18, 2017 SOURCE: Anand SG / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

Recently 70’s era Anglo-French Designed Jaguar Deep Penetration Strike aircraft belonging to Indian Air Force took the made headlines when it took off from HAL Owned Bangalore airport with Next Generation ELTA-2052 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Fire Control Radar (FCR), thus becoming the first aircraft in IAF’s Inventory to be equipped with AESA FCR . India is the lone operator of Jaguar’s in the world and was part of small group of Six countries which operated them and saw construction of only 543 aircraft which means nearly 30% of that totalling 160 units were procured by Indian Air force but that came at great price, since India had to kill its own HF-73 Program to make a case for purchase of Jaguar Strike aircraft from Britain. HF-73 was a derivate of HF-24 which HAL had developed in response to IAF’s requirement for Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft (DPSA) and was heavily optimised to handle Air-to-Ground operations. Production variant of HF-73 was to be powered by more powerful Rolls Royce RB-199-34R engines while it retained its original airframe but saw major changes in the fuselage, Air intakes and centre wing section. The cockpit was modified for better visibility. With an Increased fuel carrying capacity combat radius of HF-73 was said to be double that of HF-24. HF-73 had comparable Bomb carriage capability of Jaguars and also had the same level of combat range and capability, similarities were so much that British were pretty much convinced that India is not going to procure Jaguar Strike aircraft from them and had not given clearance for supply of its Rolls Royce RB-199-34R engines to India due to which HAL had to use older engines leading to a crash of its lone Prototype which was blamed on an engine failure . Reworked Program schedules along with configuration to use older engines in production models were not acceptable to the Indian Air Force and program work was thus discontinued and it seemed IAF was much pretty much convinced that Jaguar could do the job even though aircraft was clearly short of its requirements under trials and had limited combat capabilities. When IAF and Government officials reached Britan to negotiate for the purchase of Jaguar Strike Aircraft, British officials in a very candid admission said that ” They were surprised by Indian decision to kill its own HF-73 program and even thanked them for buying Jaguar aircraft instead”. India agreed to buy 40 Jaguar’s built in Britain and another 120 were to be license built back home in HAL Plant in India. Jaguar was never designed as Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft but due to its air frame design which incorporated excellent low-level flying characters, Indian air force and HAL spent nearly a decade or more in perfecting and improving Jaguar’s Air-to-Ground capabilities to turn it into a Strike aircraft they wanted to meet their Deep Penetration Strike Aircraft (DPSA) requirements .

http://idrw.org/when-british-thanked-india-for-killing-its-own-hf-73-program-for-jaguars/#more-145122 .

 

[Shashank Sharma]

The funny thing is that even though the British didn't allow us to buy the engine, the Indian government didn't embark on a program to develop jet engine technologies till the late 1980s. Having an indigenous engine would have enabled us to build our own helicopters, airliners, ship engines and whatnot.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Published on Mar 28, 2015
HAL HF 24 Marut is India's First Indigenous Fighter Aircraft developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited under assistance of famous aircraft designer Kurt Tank of Germany . HF ( Hindustan Fighter) 24 Marut took part in battle of longewala along with Hawker Hunter

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Why Doesn’t IAF want HF-24 Marut back in Air?

Chances of India’s first locally developed fighter aircraft going back in the air as part of Indian Air Force’s Vintage Squadron seems to be very slim after Senior serving air force official confirmed author that IAF has no plans to resurrect at least one working HF-24 aircraft back to life to be part of Vintage Squadron.

Reasons behind this decision are still unknown but it is a major setback to the people who were involved in the program and to the pilots who flew them that HF-24 Marut will not be back in the air again. HF-24 Marut was withdrawn from Indian Air Force from mid 80’s even when many aircraft still had few more years of service life left in them.

last batches of HF-24 Marut when withdrawn had less than 100 hours of flight time in them and could have been easily used to resurrect back to life few HF-24 for Aviation enthusiasts and fans of the project. IAF plans to have a Vintage Squadron consisting of Dakota DC3, T-6G Harvard Spitfire, Hawker, Gnat, Lysander and Wapiti aircraft in its vintage squadron over the next 10 years. the addition of HF-24 Marut could have delighted many Indians who were not fortunate enough to see them flying.

News Website http://idrw.org/why-doesnt-iaf-want-hf-24-marut-back-in-air/ .

==========================

New Delhi. The Indian Air Force celebrated its 80th anniversary Oct 8, putting up a spectacular show with scores of aircraft streaking across the Hindon air base's sky in New Delhi's neighbourhood. However, it was the vintage yellow-painted Tiger Moth that stole the show.

??

 

[Raj Malhotra]

Both Gnat/AJEET and Marut were withdrawn prematurely from Service to pave way for import only IAF. Don't look far, just see how even today HTT-40 is sought to be killed by IAF.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Interesting book, A must read ..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

BD830 is the third pre-production aircraft built by HAL, thus Marut # 5

BD830 is displayed at a public event by HAL. BD830 (also seen in another image in this page) is the third pre-production example. Note the retractable belly firing rocket pack just to the rear of the nose wheel. This is only photo showing the belly pack in existence.

Marut BD842 is the 15th Pre-Production example inducted into service. Full production started after another another aircraft followed BD842.

Crowds throng the first Marut Prototype BR462 at HAL airport in Bangalore on the day of its first flight.

Republic Day Flypast - Five Maruts in formation over Rajpath

 

[Kunal Biswas]

BD-884 - Hindustan Aeronautics HF-24 Marut Mk.1 - India - Air Force

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Chick sent us this account and Sudhir Batra was able to produce the photograph:

“On 12th Jun 74 , I remember we had created history of sorts when our Sqn, which had 3 different types of aircraft on strength—Mystere , Hunter Mk 66E and Marut- carried out a close formation sortie with these aircraft. incidentally I did a pair take off , with me and S/L Johri in a Hunter trainer, and Wg Cdr Bhadkamkar in a Mystere. I remember I had to literally throttle back during the pair T/O to avoid overshooting Buddy sir. Kammy sir was the last to take off in a Marut. After join up and settling down we carried out close formation and the whole sortie was filmed by then Wg Cdr Dushyant Singh, who had flown from Agra in his Canberra to photograph the historic event!!”

 

[Rahul Singh]

When British Thanked India for Killing its own HF-73 Program for Jaguars

I have always wondered as for why GOI along with IAF and HAL did not choose one from RD-9 series of Turbojets for HF-73 while working on the sideline to develop a suitable turbofan?

Least it could have done is that it would have convinced British about Indian resolve to keep the program on regardless of they supplying engines or not,

Jaguar till this date is underpowered. Something which will negatively affect its EL-2052's range and power performance.

Almost all of the modification and customisation on Jaguar for IAF was and is being done entirely at HAL. This includes all important over-wing missile rails for WVRAAMs.

IAF had no problem flying Turbojet powered Mig-21/23/27s. So why they did not opt one from RD-9 series for at least initial batches of HF-73? Considering it was not just a tactical fighter for IAF but a stepping stone to the creation of increasingly self-dependent aviation industry.

When IAF inducted Mirage-2000 the first batch came with the older engine than one contracted for.

In contrast, when Tejas MK-1 entered service with IAF it was already flying with WVRAAM+HMS, LBG and LDP; a multirole fighter something rarely seen elsewhere in the world.

The valid question that has been asked previously and more so now is why IAF so flexible with the entire spectrum of parameters in accepting an imported fighter vis i vis an indigenous fighter?

I dare say:

Had we developed HF-73, today IAF would have been flying 100s of Tejas MK-1s and 2s. with MK-3 entering service and AMCA nearing completion of its flight testing.

When HF-73 was killed just because of a single crash I don't think only British were smiling. A whole lot more planning was done by Luttiyan's on how to beat nationalist forces and killing this 'bloody HF-73' and the notion of an aviation industry.

 

[lcafanboy]

I have always wondered as for why GOI along with IAF and HAL did not choose one from RD-9 series of Turbojets for HF-73 while working on the sideline to develop a suitable turbofan?

Least it could have done is that it would have convinced British about Indian resolve to keep the program on regardless of they supplying engines or not,

Jaguar till this date is underpowered. Something which will negatively affect its EL-2052's range and power performance.

Almost all of the modification and customisation on Jaguar for IAF was and is being done entirely at HAL. This includes all important over-wing missile rails for WVRAAMs.

IAF had no problem flying Turbojet powered Mig-21/23/27s. So why they did not opt one from RD-9 series for at least initial batches of HF-73? Considering it was not just a tactical fighter for IAF but a stepping stone to the creation of increasingly self-dependent aviation industry.

When IAF inducted Mirage-2000 the first batch came with the older engine than one contracted for.

In contrast, when Tejas MK-1 entered service with IAF it was already flying with WVRAAM+HMS, LBG and LDP; a multirole fighter something rarely seen elsewhere in the world.

The valid question that has been asked previously and more so now is why IAF so flexible with the entire spectrum of parameters in accepting an imported fighter vis i vis an indigenous fighter?

I dare say:

Had we developed HF-73, today IAF would have been flying 100s of Tejas MK-1s and 2s. with MK-3 entering service and AMCA nearing completion of its flight testing.

When HF-73 was killed just because of a single crash I don't think only British were smiling. A whole lot more planning was done by Luttiyan's on how to beat nationalist forces and killing this 'bloody HF-73' and the notion of an aviation industry.

Sanjay Gandhi was peddling Jaguars for commission so Marut and HF73 was scrapped..... And this is the real reason for not pursuing both.

 

[Willy2]

The Jaguar-Viggen rivalry turnout as internal struggle within Gandhi family , as Sanjay Gandhi support jaguar and Rajib Viggen .

 

[Rahul Singh]

Why Doesn’t IAF want HF-24 Marut back in Air?








News Website http://idrw.org/why-doesnt-iaf-want-hf-24-marut-back-in-air/ .

==========================

New Delhi. The Indian Air Force celebrated its 80th anniversary Oct 8, putting up a spectacular show with scores of aircraft streaking across the Hindon air base's sky in New Delhi's neighbourhood. However, it was the vintage yellow-painted Tiger Moth that stole the show.

??

IAF has also made a Dakota flight worthy by getting it serviced and re-equipped for displays. Alas it still has to find a reason for reviving HF-24.

It's a case of where you place your pride.

IAF to add six vintage aircraft to its collection

 

[Kunal Biswas]

8 Facts India Completely Forgot About Its First Jet Fighter

Squadron 31 LIONS.

India’s premier home-built fighter jet Tejas is finally in the Indian Air Force service, although it still hasn’t received the FOC (Final Operational Clearance). The long drawn, and frankly excruciating development process, has been the butt of many jokes and doesn’t really bode well for the future of jet fighter production in the country. But did you know that the Tejas isn’t India’s first jet fighter? It was the single-seat twin-engined HF-24 Marut, which first flew back in 1961. Here are some more amazing facts about the fighter jet you didn’t even know existed.

1. The HF designation in HF-24 Marut stands for Hindustan-Fighter. While the name Marut means ‘Spirit of the Tempest’.

2. Its first flight took place on 17 June 1961, within six years of the specifications for the fighter being drawn up. Things moved quite fast back then.

3. A total of 147 examples were produced, including 18 two-seat trainers.

4. The plane was designed by German aeronautical engineer Kurt Tank. After the Second World War, he moved to Argentina and then came to India to help with the Marut design.

5. Although originally intended to have a top speed of Mach 2 (twice the speed of sound), the Marut could not even manage to do half that. It wasn’t for the lack of trying, but the lack of a suitable engine and also the sanctions after India’s first nuclear test.

6. It took part in the 1971 war and though none were lost in dogfights, a few were lost on the ground. The Marut even had a kill to its name. Sqd. Ldr. K K Bakshi recorded the aerial victory when he shot down a Pakistani F-86 Sabre on 7 December 1971.

7. After the war was over, three Marut pilots were awarded the Vir Chakra for bravery.

8. The Marut served with three squadrons of the Air Force, the No. 10 squadron, No. 31 squadron and the No. 220 squadron. Unlike today, where the Air Force is short of aircraft, each Marut squadron had more than the sanctioned strength of the aircraft.

 

[Kay]

The Jaguar-Viggen rivalry turnout as internal struggle within Gandhi family , as Sanjay Gandhi support jaguar and Rajib Viggen .

Interesting....do you have a source?..not that I doubt it...but would be interesting read

 

[Willy2]

Interesting....do you have a source?..not that I doubt it...but would be interesting read

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...r-IAF-deal-WikiLeaks/articleshow/19468918.cms