Heavy Machine Guns (HMG) in Indian Army

[aditya g]

Any good pictures of HMGs in Indian Army? Mostly I find only LMGs and MMGs...

Pak Army in comparison seems to have equipped all Infantry battalions with HMGs.

Example; rare pic of Browning 50 cal in IA:

 

[Raj Malhotra]

As per CAG report, OFB got an order to manufacture HMGs last year but as usual they were unable to do so. Hopefully they will start soon.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The got order and later on cancelled which are not published on open source ..

Their is no problem in providing HMG to Infantry as same HMG are being manufactured for tanks in India ..

OFB provided its GPMG in matter of 3 months when asked for, Modified FN MAG ..

 

[republic_roi97]

OFB provided its GPMG in matter of 3 months when asked for, Modified FN MAG ..

But FN MAG is a 7.62 machine gun, it isn't 50 Cal, doesn't HMG mean 50 cal guns like M2 Browning and DsHK etc..

 

[India22]

But FN MAG is a 7.62 machine gun, it isn't 50 Cal, doesn't HMG mean 50 cal guns like M2 Browning and DsHK etc..

Yes. 7.62mm is MMG. HMGs waste ammunition. Though .50 cals have better penetration, but we have Carl Gustaf for blowing up.

 

[republic_roi97]

Yes. 7.62mm is MMG. HMGs waste ammunition. Though .50 cals have better penetration, but we have Carl Gustaf for blowing up.

Thanks and welcome to DFI,
Does OFB produce .50cal HMG ?? Probably a russian one ??

 

[India22]

Thanks and welcome to DFI,
Does OFB produce .50cal HMG ?? Probably a russian one ??

They do build this though http://ofb.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/add_33.htm

 

[republic_roi97]

They do build this though http://ofb.gov.in/products/data/weapons/wsc/add_33.htm

That is NSV, which is locally produced in India, do they still produce it in OFB ??
Because, its outdated and russians are replacing them with Kord 12.7mm HMG

 

[India22]

That is NSV, which is locally produced in India, do they still produce it in OFB ??
Because, its outdated and russians are replacing them with Kord 12.7mm HMG

I dont know that. But we do produce KPV

 

[republic_roi97]

The got order and later on cancelled which are not published on open source ..

Their is no problem in providing HMG to Infantry as same HMG are being manufactured for tanks in India ..

OFB provided its GPMG in matter of 3 months when asked for, Modified FN MAG ..

Sir do we still produce NSV ? 12.7mm ?

 

[aditya g]

Yes. 7.62mm is MMG. HMGs waste ammunition. Though .50 cals have better penetration, but we have Carl Gustaf for blowing up.

I have observed that pak army and IA have developed slightly different TOEs for infantry battalions.

We do not have have fixed RCLs (Spg-9) nor HMGs at battalion level. On other hand PA soldiers are equipped with RPG-7 as well. They also don't have equiv of marksmen rifle like SVD and galatz.

I am not saying they are better equipped. But there is a difference and I am just curious why they evolved differently.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Yes we do produce, NSV also We use browing 50cal of WW1 design ..

Sir do we still produce NSV ? 12.7mm ?

 

[India22]

I have observed that pak army and IA have developed slightly different TOEs for infantry battalions.

We do not have have fixed RCLs (Spg-9) nor HMGs at battalion level. On other hand PA soldiers are equipped with RPG-7 as well. They also don't have equiv of marksmen rifle like SVD and galatz.

I am not saying they are better equipped. But there is a difference and I am just curious why they evolved differently.

Indian army is accuracy centric, which is wht Indian army does not use GPMGs like MG 3, M 249, PK. Indian army does not even use Bren Gun with 100 round Pan Magazine. You can say it would make barrel overheated, but it is a problem common with air cooled guns. Giving soldiers extra water pouches to cool down red hot barrels will easily allow Bren Gunners to fire constantly from 100 round Pan magazines. Even INSAS which uses 5.56mm because 7.62mm was too big for recoil in full automatic, does noot have a full auto mode.

Very faulty approach. Btw we do have RPG 7's counter part, Carl Gustav.

 

[Chinmoy]

Even INSAS which uses 5.56mm because 7.62mm was too big for recoil in full automatic, does noot have a full auto mode.

Your facts are not right in this context. INSAS has been built around 5.56 as per IA wish. Its design is doctrine based.

 

[India22]

Your facts are not right in this context. INSAS has been built around 5.56 as per IA wish. Its design is doctrine based.

Yup but it would be better if INSAS had full auto mode. Americans switched to 5.56mm because 7.62mm was too big for full auto. Russians to 5.45mm because of this. But Indian army did not. Purpose of having lighter round is to have better accuracy during full auto mode.

 

[Chinmoy]

Yup but it would be better if INSAS had full auto mode. Americans switched to 5.56mm because 7.62mm was too big for full auto. Russians to 5.45mm because of this. But Indian army did not. Purpose of having lighter round is to have better accuracy during full auto mode.

Go to INSAS thread for better understanding of INSAS development. Anyway a snip of it is, IA had asked for 5.56 round so that it could only injure rather then blowing off the enemy. Main reason for it was the fact that it would require 4 soldiers to carry the injured out of the battle field in turn effectively declining their fighting strength. The idea was not to fire in Full Auto mode or 3 round Burst mode.
Anyway INSAS too did lacked the full auto mode in its early version because of economic thought rather then technical thought. In IA soldiers are trained to make each and every bullet count unlike the Americans or Russian counterpart. Anyway Auto mode is back with Excalibur and MCIWS.
But please let keep this thread for HMG only.

 

[smestarz]

Heavy Machine guns usually are mounted or need a crew to serve them (2 or more) HMG provide heavy fire power, but usually HMG are not that easy for changing positions. HMG usually involve a heavy Stand (base) and the gun itself and the ammo, easily requiring 3 people to transport it and set it up and move it during combat, but on other hand LMG and HMG would easily be more portable and two man team and handle it easily. Further HMG are more useful when taking down enemy positions and usually soft skinned vehicles so HMGs used by infantry would be more better suited to ambush roles. Using HMGs against holed up infantry is more like an overkill .

 

[India22]

Historically HMGs were mounted. Americans used M2 Browning in their fighter planes, tanks, assault boats and as AA system. Chinmoy Done.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Their approach is more defensive then offensive, Indian Army on other hand focus primarily on mobility of solider and demand on light equipment.

The difference is clearly can be seen in even small formation of both armies, One use MG3 other use bren MG, In Indian Army individual solider from squad use bren and carry its ammunition on its own, On other hand Pakistani Army have MG crew even in squad who carry its ammunition and other equipment, Their squad is around Machine guns crews and platoon is around MG squads, The idea is to provide suppressive fire in interlocking firezone, ( MG-3 is not a accurate weapon but a very fast firing gun design for suppresive fire, It eats away 100rnd belt in just 4 burst within 5 secs, It also need to change barrel when used very frequently, Crew always carry spare barrels with them, In combat changing barrel and feeding ammunition frequently is a big headache for any MG crew ).

The whole idea of defense is around MGs, Other mostly in squad are busy supplying ammunition to MG for continues firing and when this MG and its crew is taken out, The other member of squad basically have nothing else to do but have two options in sense of task and as well as physiologically.

1. Stand ground and defend with issued rifle.
2. Retreat and regroup.

Mostly the latter is always in motion, As seen in Kargil war.

=================

Indian Army on other hand issues rifle to every soldier and LMG / RL / Mortar to specific soldiers depends on situation, When in combat everyone in the squad aims unlike one or two from other side with just MG, Even with Bren a solider can snipe ( shoot at someone from a hiding place, especially accurately and at long range) , So even one or three are down other will continue the battle both in defense and offense.

I have observed that pak army and IA have developed slightly different TOEs for infantry battalions.

We do not have have fixed RCLs (Spg-9) nor HMGs at battalion level. On other hand PA soldiers are equipped with RPG-7 as well. They also don't have equiv of marksmen rifle like SVD and galatz.

I am not saying they are better equipped. But there is a difference and I am just curious why they evolved differently.

 

[aditya g]

Superb analysis. Thanks

We laymen miss these details and hence fail to understand how aggressive our forces are structured. It is true for our air force and navy as well.

Air force invested heavily in strike aircraft because we will hit enemy on their airspace. This was true in '65 when our boys flew hunters over Sargodha and Peshawar and is true today.

Navy towed missile boats to enemy area to kill them in 71 and will do so today.

We have airborne troops and amphibious troops and ships because we will fight an aggressive war.

Their approach is more defensive then offensive, Indian Army on other hand focus primarily on mobility of solider and demand on light equipment.

The difference is clearly can be seen in even small formation of both armies, One use MG3 other use bren MG, In Indian Army individual solider from squad use bren and carry its ammunition on its own, On other hand Pakistani Army have MG crew even in squad who carry its ammunition and other equipment, Their squad is around Machine guns crews and platoon is around MG squads, The idea is to provide suppressive fire in interlocking firezone, ( MG-3 is not a accurate weapon but a very fast firing gun design for suppresive fire, It eats away 100rnd belt in just 4 burst within 5 secs, It also need to change barrel when used very frequently, Crew always carry spare barrels with them, In combat changing barrel and feeding ammunition frequently is a big headache for any MG crew ).

The whole idea of defense is around MGs, Other mostly in squad are busy supplying ammunition to MG for continues firing and when this MG and its crew is taken out, The other member of squad basically have nothing else to do but have two options in sense of task and as well as physiologically.

1. Stand ground and defend with issued rifle.
2. Retreat and regroup.

Mostly the latter is always in motion, As seen in Kargil war.

=================

Indian Army on other hand issues rifle to every soldier and LMG / RL / Mortar to specific soldiers depends on situation, When in combat everyone in the squad aims unlike one or two from other side with just MG, Even with Bren a solider can snipe ( shoot at someone from a hiding place, especially accurately and at long range) , So even one or three are down other will continue the battle both in defense and offense.