HAL Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) and Light Observation Helicopter (LOH)

[Prashant12]

LUH descending from Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO, or Oldie), adjacent to Karakoram pass. Headed toward Leh, into the heart of the second largest union territory of India.

 

[Tridev123]

Great sight. I hope Indian weapons start gaining a reputation for being well engineered and reliable. Presently user confidence in our indigenous weapons is lacking. Japan started off producing low quality products(as perceived by many people) decades ago and slowly climbed up the quality ladder to become a watchword for high quality. Japanese brand names like Sony, Toyota etc are associated with good products. Every country goes through this learning curve. India will also reach there. Hope we get there in the shortest possible time frame.

Things are changing fast in India nowadays and look very positive. We need to increase productivity and foster innovation. Most insiders in the defence production sector know that even now most of the subsystems in our indigenous weapon systems are imported. In times of war we are vulnerable to embargoes by suppliers of components. We need a well coordinated strategy to progressively increase the percentage of Indian made components. No country will willingly transfer technology to us. Ultimately we have to invest in our own R&D.

I foresee India becoming like Europe and Japan within the next two decades. China is unfortunately ahead of us and are increasingly producing weapons using indigenous parts. Their reliance on Russian technology is diminishing fast. We need to catch up with China.

A suggestion. Why don't we ask defence startups to design an indigenous assault rifle and carbine. The technology involved is not too complex. It is far simpler than designing a tank. IIT engineers should take up the challenge. I am sure they will design a better rifle than the Insas. We don't need to depend on imports. The government of course should arrange for funding such startups after due verification.

 

[IndianHawk]

Great sight. I hope Indian weapons start gaining a reputation for being well engineered and reliable. Presently user confidence in our indigenous weapons is lacking. Japan started off producing low quality products(as perceived by many people) decades ago and slowly climbed up the quality ladder to become a watchword for high quality. Japanese brand names like Sony, Toyota etc are associated with good products. Every country goes through this learning curve. India will also reach there. Hope we get there in the shortest possible time frame.

Things are changing fast in India nowadays and look very positive. We need to increase productivity and foster innovation. Most insiders in the defence production sector know that even now most of the subsystems in our indigenous weapon systems are imported. In times of war we are vulnerable to embargoes by suppliers of components. We need a well coordinated strategy to progressively increase the percentage of Indian made components. No country will willingly transfer technology to us. Ultimately we have to invest in our own R&D.

I foresee India becoming like Europe and Japan within the next two decades. China is unfortunately ahead of us and are increasingly producing weapons using indigenous parts. Their reliance on Russian technology is diminishing fast. We need to catch up with China.

A suggestion. Why don't we ask defence startups to design an indigenous assault rifle and carbine. The technology involved is not too complex. It is far simpler than designing a tank. IIT engineers should take up the challenge. I am sure they will design a better rifle than the Insas. We don't need to depend on imports. The government of course should arrange for funding such startups after due verification.

You will find many iitians among officers of ofb and DRDO scientists. In fact even in IAS majority of select are engineers from premier institution.
( Iit, nit , top private ).

It's the interference of politics , lack of funding for research and prototype and shitty work culture that is the problem. Not the lack of intelligent people.

 

[fyodor]

Great sight. I hope Indian weapons start gaining a reputation for being well engineered and reliable. Presently user confidence in our indigenous weapons is lacking. Japan started off producing low quality products(as perceived by many people) decades ago and slowly climbed up the quality ladder to become a watchword for high quality. Japanese brand names like Sony, Toyota etc are associated with good products. Every country goes through this learning curve. India will also reach there. Hope we get there in the shortest possible time frame.

Things are changing fast in India nowadays and look very positive. We need to increase productivity and foster innovation. Most insiders in the defence production sector know that even now most of the subsystems in our indigenous weapon systems are imported. In times of war we are vulnerable to embargoes by suppliers of components. We need a well coordinated strategy to progressively increase the percentage of Indian made components. No country will willingly transfer technology to us. Ultimately we have to invest in our own R&D.

I foresee India becoming like Europe and Japan within the next two decades. China is unfortunately ahead of us and are increasingly producing weapons using indigenous parts. Their reliance on Russian technology is diminishing fast. We need to catch up with China.

A suggestion. Why don't we ask defence startups to design an indigenous assault rifle and carbine. The technology involved is not too complex. It is far simpler than designing a tank. IIT engineers should take up the challenge. I am sure they will design a better rifle than the Insas. We don't need to depend on imports. The government of course should arrange for funding such startups after due verification.

There is no special talent in an "IIT engineer" which you won't get in a bright guy studying in a tier-4 university because he didn't got the opportunity for exam training.

My brother is an IIT'ian and he currently works at a mega global bank doing investment banking. Most of his colleagues are also from IIT. He tells me that most of them are low-confident and he can notice a slight change of tone denoting subservience whenever they are on a call with their videshi boss. Their only goal is to emigrate out of India and work for some other videshi at a better price.

The success stories you hear out of IIT are far in between considering how much over-funded they are. This is not just a problem with IIT but the typical Indian attitude of slavery which has trickled from top to bottom and exacerbated in Nehru's India.

A few of these IIT'ians dream to crack IAS if they believe that working in private companies is too much work. IAS is another scam run by government of India to create entitled slaves. Further, these slaves(IAS officers) look for their own kind and hence cannot think out of box. The politicians are too happy to oblige since who wouldn't want an obedient slave keeping the system working which has brought them so much fortune?

 

[WolfPack86]

Kamov Ka-226T project likely to get major push during PM Modi's Russia visit
Russia has said payment issues regarding defence deal is not an issue and the rupee-ruble mechanism is working with the system adapting to newer reality.

"Very successfully. I would say it's a non-issue. It is no more an issue. There were initial difficulties due to banking restrictions.. but then we took to G2G level and we use a different currency." Victor N Kladov, director of International Cooperation and regional policy of Russian state corporation or Rostec said. Rostec is an umbrella org for all defence companies of Russia.

India Russia last year announced the S400 deal and given the American sanctions on the latter, payments was an issue. India will be getting Russian S400 by April 2023.


Lauding India for standing to the US on S400 deal Kladov speaking at MAKS Air Show near Moscow said, "India is a powerful big country, speaks equally to America..and when it comes to S400 Indian govt has explained to the American counterpart that it is required for national defence."

India can face American sanctions under the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act (CAATSA) law but so far Washington hasn't announced any.

Dismissing concerns of Russian and American missile "talking to each other" given Victor N Kladov, said, "India can make an interface.. a command...but secrets are well protected...secrets are inside technology and they also inside agreements.. whereby Indian end-user is obliged to keep secrets". New Delhi is negotiating short-range theatre defence from US.

Major push will be given for the signing of Kamov Ka-226 or Ka 226 T — Russian utility helicopter contract during PM Modi's visit to Vladivostok upcoming visit (Beginning from September 4) for the eastern economic forum.

"Yes we are hopefull this meeting between President Putin and Prime Minister Modi will bring new development in K 226 T Project..major push will be made definitely."

Regarding the K 226T all technical and commercial talks are already finished but the contract has not been signed.

He said, "There is no delay, we are expecting final okay from the ministry of defence of India. Everything is ready".

Many parts of Ka 226 T helicopters will be produced domestically in India, giving a boost to India's make in India defence initiative. Major partner is HAL and in the supply chain more Indian companies will be present. First, 60 helicopters will be assembled in Russia, next 140 will be assembled in India.

Asked if Russia has offered its fifth-generation fighter aircraft Su 57, he said, "we have never ever cancelled the agreement with Indian govt. 5th generation project has been delayed by the Indian side, not by the Russian side because Indian airforce has its own strategy of development so, for the time being, we don't have talks."

India and Russia had planned to develop it but New Delhi backed out due to the huge cost.
http://defencenews.in/article/Kamov...ajor-push-during-PM-Modis-Russia-visit-586877

 

[Bleh]

Japan started off producing low quality products(as perceived by many people) decades ago and slowly climbed up the quality ladder to become a watchword for high quality. Japanese brand names like Sony, Toyota etc are associated with good products.

I didn't know that back in the 60s, 70s and 80s Japanese product has the reputation in the West that Chinese products have today... was shocked to find out actually.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

I didn't know that back in the 60s, 70s and 80s Japanese product has the reputation in the West that Chinese products have today... was shocked to find out actually.

Never watched BACK TO THE FUTURE TRIOLOGY, I say watch it.
In that TRIOLOGY japanese products go from junk to advance, that's how I came to know the success of japanese model.

 

[Tridev123]

I didn't know that back in the 60s, 70s and 80s Japanese product has the reputation in the West that Chinese products have today... was shocked to find out actually.

I would like you to clarify on your post. Was it genuine surprise or a sarcastic statement?. If it was surprise, yes it is the truth. Japanese products in the 50's were of low quality and regarded as such by other countries especially the US.

If it was a sarcastic comment to doubt the veracity of the statement then my sincere advice to you is-please do some research before making a fool of yourself. Japanese products were of poor quality in the 50's the immediate period after the Second World War. Have you heard of
W. Edwards Deming and his contribution to improving quality in Japanese industry.

Also read up this article in the archives of the New York Times.
Made in Japan (Without the Inferiority Complex)
by Rita Reif

This journalistic article published decades ago will give you a good idea of the state of Japanese industry after World War 2.

The Articles are available in the
archive feedback @nytimes.com

I expect better from you. My post never mentioned that Japanese products were of poor quality in the 60's,70's or 80's.I only said decades ago. Before the 70's itself Japan increased quality through a structured programme.

 

[Bleh]

I would like you to clarify on your post. Was it genuine surprise or a sarcastic statement?. If it was surprise, yes it is the truth. Japanese products in the 50's were of low quality and regarded as such by other countries especially the US.

If it was a sarcastic comment to doubt the veracity of the statement then my sincere advice to you is-please do some research before making a fool of yourself. Japanese products were of poor quality in the 50's the immediate period after the Second World War. Have you heard of
W. Edwards Deming and his contribution to improving quality in Japanese industry.

Also read up this article in the archives of the New York Times.
Made in Japan (Without the Inferiority Complex)
by Rita Reif

This journalistic article published decades ago will give you a good idea of the state of Japanese industry after World War 2.

The Articles are available in the
archive feedback @nytimes.com

I expect better from you. My post never mentioned that Japanese products were of poor quality in the 60's,70's or 80's.I only said decades ago. Before the 70's itself Japan increased quality through a structured programme.

I knew by reading Quora replies & subsequent discussions by American people talking about the 60s & 70s... My comment was based on that.

 

[Tridev123]

I knew by reading Quora replies & subsequent discussions by American people talking about the 60s & 70s... My comment was based on that.

I welcome differences of opinion. If you feel that a certain statement is disputable then openly say that you don't agree and put forth your views. But before proving somebody's views wrong you should establish that you are right. Provide references and proof to back your claim. Simply saying that the other person is wrong does not make you right.

A healthy exchange of views backed by facts can take place.
Sarcasm is no substitute for informed debate.

Have you bothered to research on Japanese industry in the 50's at least now to know the facts and truth.

 

[Bleh]

I welcome differences of opinion. If you feel that a certain statement is disputable then openly say that you don't agree and put forth your views. But before proving somebody's views wrong you should establish that you are right. Provide references and proof to back your claim. Simply saying that the other person is wrong does not make you right.

A healthy exchange of views backed by facts can take place.
Sarcasm is no substitute for informed debate.

Have you bothered to research on Japanese industry in the 50's at least now to know the facts and truth.

I wasn't being sarcastic... wasn't disputing what you said.
I know too little & care to little about the topic for any debate, or further research. Chill out.

 

[WolfPack86]

Ka-226T in Indian Colours showcased by @RusHeliCo , second image courtesy- BMPD

 

[abingdonboy]

LUH descending from Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO, or Oldie), adjacent to Karakoram pass. Headed toward Leh, into the heart of the second largest union territory of India.

Can’t get enough of this bird. Hope Modi doesn’t do the stupid thing and order the KA226 this late in the day, let LUH take all 400++ orders for the LUH/RSH role. It will transform the Indian helicopter sector within a very short span and give untold benefits.

This helo can be like the infamous BELL 406/7 which became so widespread in the 70s/80s in the US for every role from HEMS to sight seeing tours. The LUH can be that for India.

 

[Tridev123]

Can’t get enough of this bird. Hope Modi doesn’t do the stupid thing and order the KA226 this late in the day, let LUH take all 400++ orders for the LUH/RSH role. It will transform the Indian helicopter sector within a very short span and give untold benefits.

This helo can be like the infamous BELL 406/7 which became so widespread in the 70s/80s in the US for every role from HEMS to sight seeing tours. The LUH can be that for India.

I fully agree. It is one sexy looking helicopter. I believe there was German help in designing the ALH and the design philosophy must have been passed on to the LUH. The indigenous content in the LUH is quite high as stated by many experts.

The requirements are so large that I feel production can be split into two segments. Let HAL produce exclusively for the armed forces and let a private sector well established competent company produce for the civilian market after receiving all technological assistance from HAL. The HAL can charge licence fees and royalty for each heli sold by the private company.

Can the LUH reach Siachen Glacier and be a replacement for the Chetak and Cheetah fleet. How much load can it carry to Siachen in comparison to the Chetah heli. What is the current import content by volume and value and are we working on replacing imported components by indigenous stuff. How does the flyaway cost of the LUH compare with similar helis in world. Will the LUH be export competitive.

 

[rockrocky]

Light Utility Helicopter Clears High Weather Tests at Himalayas

 

[WolfPack86]

LUH clears High Weather Tests at Himalayas. Statement by @HALHQBLR attached

 

[WolfPack86]

#HAL designed and developed Light Utility #Helicopter (LUH) successfully demonstrated high altitude capability in hot and high weather conditions in the Himalayas. Tests were conducted at #Leh (3300 m) For more stories on defence: https://bit.ly/2YKJt6S

 

[IndianHawk]

This is from business standard article.
Seems Russia is offering 200 kamov +111 for navy as a bundle with total price as 3 billion USD.

Each Heli then costs about 9-10 million USD.

What will be the pricing of luh any idea?

 

[abingdonboy]

This is from business standard article.
Seems Russia is offering 200 kamov +111 for navy as a bundle with total price as 3 billion USD.

Each Heli then costs about 9-10 million USD.

What will be the pricing of luh any idea?

They have 111 NUH under “firm” lmao. The navy doesn’t want it, the KA226 can’t even meet most of their requirements.

Just last week French talks involved the Panther for NUH role (far more suited to requirements).

My feeling is ALH will still get the NUH deal.

 

[Chinmoy]

They have 111 NUH under “firm” lmao. The navy doesn’t want it, the KA226 can’t even meet most of their requirements.

Just last week French talks involved the Panther for NUH role (far more suited to requirements).

My feeling is ALH will still get the NUH deal.

With its range, folding rotor, dual engine and overall length, Ka-226 is stronger contender for NUH.