HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

[Enquirer]

Your point was about data sharing between apache and LCH. Isn’t it?

Why will they share encrypted data without comcasa? The whole point of COMCASA is about protecting their encrypted data.

I am not referring to comms.

Without COMCASA, Apaches will not be equipped with highly ‘encrypted’ devices in the first place!! They’ll come with regular ‘encryption’ - hopefully interoperable with other Indian devices.

 

[binayak95]

who said? COMCASA gives us access to NATO grade Comms but that doesn't mean American equipment bought by us doesn't have any Comms.

All Indian systems have BEL Datalinks. Which allows them to communicate amongst themselves.

Without COMCASA, Apaches will not be equipped with highly ‘encrypted’ devices in the first place!! They’ll come with regular ‘encryption’ - hopefully interoperable with other Indian devices.

They are indeed compatible. All American aircraft that we have bought are equipped with BEL made Comms and EW gear. They are quite closely integrated with Indian C&C

 

[Kshithij]

They are indeed compatible. All American aircraft that we have bought are equipped with BEL made Comms and EW gear. They are quite closely integrated with Indian C&C

Yes that is exactly what is meant by - USA won't supply high end electronic items. Does BEL have longbow radar technology? If not, it won't be able to make it. BEL was also not able to make all the equipment of P8I which USA refused to sell due to COMCASA.

When simple communication equipment is used in C17 or C130, the difference of COMCASA is nil. Such generic communication can be done by any satellite based communication devices. But when radars and other complex signals have to be communicated, COMCASA becomes important

 

[Enquirer]

They are indeed compatible. All American aircraft that we have bought are equipped with BEL made Comms and EW gear. They are quite closely integrated with Indian C&C

Comms are not the only equipment of discussion. Premium dollars are being paid for Longbow radar etc - the issue is if information gleaned from such surveillance can be seamlessly shared with ground control & other helos (without the pilot having to 'say' it out on the radio!) !

 

[HariPrasad-1]

The Turks claim their euro rip off is better at high altitude

Specifications reveals both are almost same. However, with new turbomaca shakti, LCH can kick @$$ of any chopper of the class at high altitude. I do not know whether that engine is incorporated in LCH or not.

 

[charlie]

Yes that is exactly what is meant by - USA won't supply high end electronic items. Does BEL have longbow radar technology? If not, it won't be able to make it. BEL was also not able to make all the equipment of P8I which USA refused to sell due to COMCASA.

When simple communication equipment is used in C17 or C130, the difference of COMCASA is nil. Such generic communication can be done by any satellite based communication devices. But when radars and other complex signals have to be communicated, COMCASA becomes important

well Enquirer and you are both talking about different things

first point would be what's the point of buying something that other system in our inventory will not be able to communicate with !!

Our system do not support waveforms such as Trellsware TSM X MANET or L3's ISR full motion video or Sincgars, UHF LOS, havequickII so there is no point of buying stuff ( I am not sure about UHF Line of sight) neither do they support datalink such as link 22 or 16

In case of P8I I don't remember much now but I think the problem was when the harpoon missile was fired the radar that India had was not able provide mid course guidance/update to the missile because they didn't provide us strike common weapon datalink which is UHF and link 16.

It's better to have our own data link like BEL has rather then using someone else there are pro and cons but as our local defence industry develops it's better to have our own waveforms.

 

[sayareakd]

The only disadvantage the LCH faces at theatres other than High Altitude is lack of armor or atleast it appears to lack armor when compared to Apaches and Mi35s. At high altitude, it's better to have some rotary firepower than nothing

Its our first attempt, we are learning.............

 

[Kshithij]

Its our first attempt, we are learning.............

Actually LCH is deliberately ''ight". It is not an error of first attempt. Nowadays, CAS planes are more used than just helicopters. But helicopters also have their own usage. LCH has its own use in providing rotary armour for cheap and it is also quick to manufacture. The high altitude performance matters more as helicopters are more useful in mountainous terrain than planes

 

[sayareakd]

Actually LCH is deliberately ''ight". It is not an error of first attempt. Nowadays, CAS planes are more used than just helicopters. But helicopters also have their own usage. LCH has its own use in providing rotary armour for cheap and it is also quick to manufacture. The high altitude performance matters more as helicopters are more useful in mountainous terrain than planes

Its based on proven ALH, they played with it, kargil was give them idea to operate at high altitude. Thats where its unique.

 

[Vinod DX9]

LCH not ony is an excellent platform for high altitude assault but also can be used as a force multiplier with Apaches against enemy armour

 

[Kshithij]

It is always better to use CAS aircrafts for attack against armour. Helicopters are always too slow, less fuel efficient and can carry much less than a plane. Even a plane like Do228 with payload attached is better than Apache helicopters

LCH not ony is an excellent platform for high altitude assault but also can be used as a force multiplier with Apaches against enemy armour

 

[patriots]

mistral air to air missile with lch.....


..............it's video title..,.....................,........

 

[Chinmoy]

I'm what sense. Can it carry a similar payload with similar agility and keep it's range ?

No. It can't carry the same payload in comparison to Longbow for sure.

But in high altitude warfare you need a heli which would be agile and fit enough to sustain the fight. With heavy armour like Apache and Mi-35, you increase survival, but loose on agility and even performance at altitude. So LCH has been tuned to carry out these mission with minimum armour capability. Even with heavy armour, Apache and Mi-35 would not match its capability at that altitude.

On other hand, during normal operation across plain, you need a higher survival rate. Heavy armour and long range RADAR is a must for operations here and LCH lacks both of these. So its operational capability in plains would not be as same as what it would be at high altitude warfare.

 

[abingdonboy]

No comcasa, no inter-linking between Indian and American equipment sirji....

Nonsense. Lack of COMCASA means US origin datalinks and comns equipment, they have been replaced by Indian origin systems making them 100% compatible with Indian networks.

Anyone that tells you that COMCASA affects Indian US-origin military equipment being able to integrate into Indian networks is blatantly LYING.

 

[abingdonboy]

Without COMCASA, Apaches will not be equipped with highly ‘encrypted’ devices in the first place!! They’ll come with regular ‘encryption’ - hopefully interoperable with other Indian devices.

They will be equipped with the same communication equipment found on every other platform. There is no issue here, only US sycophants will make an issue of this. India has ZERO need to be interoperable with US forces

 

[abingdonboy]

Yes that is exactly what is meant by - USA won't supply high end electronic items. Does BEL have longbow radar technology? If not, it won't be able to make it. BEL was also not able to make all the equipment of P8I which USA refused to sell due to COMCASA.

When simple communication equipment is used in C17 or C130, the difference of COMCASA is nil. Such generic communication can be done by any satellite based communication devices. But when radars and other complex signals have to be communicated, COMCASA becomes important

What does MMW Radar have to do with COMCASA? Nothing.

And FYI DRDO is working on a AESA based FCR for LCH, likely going to be ready in the next 2 years.

 

[abingdonboy]

LCH not ony is an excellent platform for high altitude assault but also can be used as a force multiplier with Apaches against enemy armour

I think this armour question is a huge red herring, in this day and age with stand off munitions aplenty and long range sensors what is the need to have heavy armour?

LCH is protected against small arms (up to 7.62 calibre), not sure why it would need more than this in the real world when the nature of combat is you will strike before the enemy even knows you are there.

Biggest threat to attack helos is VSHORAD/SAMs and there is NO attack helo with armour that can defend against that. The greatest utility a “heavy” attack helicopter has over the LCH in this day and age is the increased absolute payload it can carry at sea level.

 

[ezsasa]

Nonsense. Lack of COMCASA means US origin datalinks and comns equipment, they have been replaced by Indian origin systems making them 100% compatible with Indian networks.

Anyone that tells you that COMCASA affects Indian US-origin military equipment being able to integrate into Indian networks is blatantly LYING.

Yes, seems to be the case...

Any idea which Indian origin equipment is being installed in apache.

Some Indian company must have advertised this, if their equipment is supplied to apache.

 

[abingdonboy]

Yes, seems to be the case...

Any idea which Indian origin equipment is being installed in apache.

Some Indian company must have advertised this, if their equipment is supplied to apache.

BEL most likely, they make datalinks and encrypted communication equipment for pretty much ever Indian platform already in use.

This is really not an issue, Pakis face a hilarious situation where LINK-16 is present on their F-16s and ERIEYE but not on their JF-17s or ZDK so their F-16s can’t talk to their ZDK and their JF-17s can’t with their ERIEYEs.

India never had such issues, all assets have Indian equipment to link and talk to each other, the DRDO AEW can link with a Rafale, Mirage-2000, MKI or LCA and they can all link with each other

 

[charlie]

Yes, seems to be the case...

Any idea which Indian origin equipment is being installed in apache.

Some Indian company must have advertised this, if their equipment is supplied to apache.

It’s will have a bel data link and it might have HAL Sdr 2010 radio rather then Harris Kor24A, that’s the previous company I worked for.
https://www.harris.com/sites/default/files/downloads/solutions/stt_data_sheet.pdf