HAL Prachand - Light Combat Helicopter (LCH)

abingdonboy

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apparently ....
Despite LCH being a priority project, it's not on
@HALHQBLR
order book yet. An order for 15 LSP LCHs (10 for the IAF, 5 for the IA) has been cleared by MoD but not placed because HAL hasn't been able to integrate an ATGM,
Yeah I saw that. But in august 2017 in the presence of then DM Jaitley LSP production was meant to have commenced.

LSP production is meant to have commenced an age ago

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/wap....-combat-helicopter-at-hal-117082600691_1.html

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...es-production-of-light-combat-helicopter.html

“The IOC is expected any time now and the first limited series production (LSP) copter should be coming out by 2018." says Dr Kumar. He said the production drawings for LSP have been finalised.“
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/engl...r-by-2018-mathrubhumi-aeroindia2017-1.1725141

Plus the chief test pilot of HAL had said LSP production had commenced in a video from last year.


I find the tweet unconvincing as the Rudra too doesn’t have an ATGM integrated but production commenced a while back and it has even be delivered to users.



Muther fking babudom. Obfuscating and stalling instead of actually doing their job.
 

abingdonboy

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Everyone remember this news:


The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) had cleared the proposal to induct initial batch of 15 LCHs. Notwithstanding the final orders to formally come, HAL had gone ahead and began the process of manufacturing the limited series production (LSP) platforms.


https://english.manoramaonline.com/...-packs-punch-induction-striking-distance.html

I believe it far more as it’s coming straight from the horse’s mouth (HAL) and TARMAK 007 is usually spot on. Takur seems to have quite the axe to grind against this govt and like many in IAF is very anti-HAL. Blaming HAL for the HELINA not being ready or the IA/IAF not being able to select a foreign ATGM is the height of absurdity.

So it looks like HAL has begun LSP from their own funds and will deliver them almost immediately the moment that FOC is given or the GOI places the actual orders (after ATGM is integrated?) hence why they don’t appear on HAL’s “order book” as of yet.
 

ezsasa

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Everyone remember this news:


The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) had cleared the proposal to induct initial batch of 15 LCHs. Notwithstanding the final orders to formally come, HAL had gone ahead and began the process of manufacturing the limited series production (LSP) platforms.


https://english.manoramaonline.com/...-packs-punch-induction-striking-distance.html

I believe it far more as it’s coming straight from the horse’s mouth (HAL) and TARMAK 007 is usually spot on. Takur seems to have quite the axe to grind against this govt and like many in IAF is very anti-HAL. Blaming HAL for the HELINA not being ready or the IA/IAF not being able to select a foreign ATGM is the height of absurdity.

So it looks like HAL has begun LSP from their own funds and will deliver them almost immediately the moment that FOC is given or the GOI places the actual orders (after ATGM is integrated?) hence why they don’t appear on HAL’s “order book” as of yet.
maybe HAL annual report 2018-19 will throw some light on it, yet to be released.
 

abingdonboy

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maybe HAL annual report 2018-19 will throw some light on it, yet to be released.
Maybe but it seems to me LCH is another victim of babus in MOD and delusional generals in the service HQs.

Obviously when the delays become more talked about it will be HAL that will be blamed.
 

akk

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It is increasingly obvious to me that in the majority of instances (may be all), hal is blamed unfairly for others' mistakes and delays. Best example is tejas, till date there is order of only 40 jets, 24 of these receiving clearance only in January 2019, and they get ALL the blame for delays.
I wonder why media ALWAYS writes misleading articles, possibly to sway public opinion against hal. Maybe another foreign lobby job.
 

SajeevJino

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Maybe but it seems to me LCH is another victim of babus in MOD and delusional generals in the service HQs.

Obviously when the delays become more talked about it will be HAL that will be blamed.
Lemme clear you sir,

LCH is a fine platform , But all of them playing with its ATGM procrument, the planned PARS L3 and Mistral ATGM and still they discussing as of now LCH is compatible of firing Mistral AAM and its 20mm chin gun, for get HELINA SANT or whatever DRDO develops , Don't kill the LCH with such stupidity

DAC and MoD can clear the same LSP for million times, but who will allocate funds, who will pay, HAL, MoD, or the User ( IAF, IA ) They all busy in discussing of gold plated Apache procrument only

So for the next few years no one will talk about LCH, we might see the first 15 LSP varients around 2025 or later
 

HariPrasad-1

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Lemme clear you sir,

LCH is a fine platform , But all of them playing with its ATGM procrument, the planned PARS L3 and Mistral ATGM and still they discussing as of now LCH is compatible of firing Mistral AAM and its 20mm chin gun, for get HELINA SANT or whatever DRDO develops , Don't kill the LCH with such stupidity

DAC and MoD can clear the same LSP for million times, but who will allocate funds, who will pay, HAL, MoD, or the User ( IAF, IA ) They all busy in discussing of gold plated Apache procrument only

So for the next few years no one will talk about LCH, we might see the first 15 LSP varients around 2025 or later
Like Indian Navy has said bat they want buy any submarine from abroad after project 75 I, all armed forces should set up a criteria for themselves that after certain Import of foreign product, they will not import any foreign maal . There is a time to put strict restriction on import of some low Tech items such as guns, ammunition, short range missiles, light ant weight and medium weight choppers, training aircrafts etc.
 

abingdonboy

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It is increasingly obvious to me that in the majority of instances (may be all), hal is blamed unfairly for others' mistakes and delays. Best example is tejas, till date there is order of only 40 jets, 24 of these receiving clearance only in January 2019, and they get ALL the blame for delays.
I wonder why media ALWAYS writes misleading articles, possibly to sway public opinion against hal. Maybe another foreign lobby job.

No doubt about it. People drag HAL’s name
Through the mud over LCA because of the delays which is explicitly nothing to do with HAL. LCA is not a HAL product, they are just the production agency. Development and validation are all the responsibility of ADA and CEMILC. Has it ever been reported that that delays in LCA are due to inferior quality of HAL’s work? On the contrary not a single airframe loss and the fact that LCA has been able to achieve every target (which includes a naval fighter) speaks to the high QC now found at HAL.

Then they complain about the slow pace of delivery but when you only have 40 committed to orders what’s kind of fool do you have to be to expect HAL to ramp up production beyond 5-8/year? IAF has no problem throwing $4-5bn at Boeing for 10 C17 or looking for 126-189 jets in one go but when it comes to LCA they order 20+20? To this day IAF still haven’t ordered those 83 MK.1A, no doubt in a few years idiots will start blaming HAL for not having delivered the mk1A on time.

Then there’s the price issue. Order so few and then Complain at the higher prices of individual units. I don’t know if these esteemed babus and generals are true morons or have never studied even basic economic theory such as cost amortisation and economies of scale. You have the F16 that has been produced in the 10000s compared to the LCA that hasn’t even touched 40 units yet. The same stupid games were played with the Arjun. DRDO said they needed 500 unit order to bring prices down on par with modern MBTs and to localise spares. What does IA do? Orders 124 units and then complains years later that spares are still being imported. And uses this as a justification to order 400+ T-90.

It seems to me the entire system is set up to deter indigenous development and favour imports.

Line up all these babus and senior military’s leadership, empty their pockets and use them as target practice. They are the worst kind of traitors.

Lemme clear you sir,

LCH is a fine platform , But all of them playing with its ATGM procrument, the planned PARS L3 and Mistral ATGM and still they discussing as of now LCH is compatible of firing Mistral AAM and its 20mm chin gun, for get HELINA SANT or whatever DRDO develops , Don't kill the LCH with such stupidity

DAC and MoD can clear the same LSP for million times, but who will allocate funds, who will pay, HAL, MoD, or the User ( IAF, IA ) They all busy in discussing of gold plated Apache procrument only

So for the next few years no one will talk about LCH, we might see the first 15 LSP varients around 2025 or later
It is clearly the ATGM issue that is being used to stall LCH procurement as of now. HELINA should be ready by the end of this year but now SANT is under trails who wants to bet that IAF/IA will demand SANT is operational before accepting LCH?

2025 is silly. HAL is already making the 15 LSP as of now. They’ll all be ready be the middle of
Next year it’s just that IA and IAF haven’t actually ordered them yet because of this ATGM issue.
 

abingdonboy

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Like Indian Navy has said bat they want buy any submarine from abroad after project 75 I, all armed forces should set up a criteria for themselves that after certain Import of foreign product, they will not import any foreign maal . There is a time to put strict restriction on import of some low Tech items such as guns, ammunition, short range missiles, light ant weight and medium weight choppers, training aircrafts etc.
Indeed otherwise this import cycle will never end. Already IA is lining up T-14 for their FRCV.

I think 2025 is easily doable as the last date India needs to import major systems.

I think there should be a cap, say $300m for the total value of an import deal as there will be minor specialist equipment that it makes sense to
Import but most major systems will have an Indian alternative come 2025.

Impossible to imagine this ever being implemented though. Arms lobby is a real thing.
 

HariPrasad-1

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No doubt about it. People drag HAL’s name
Through the mud over LCA because of the delays which is explicitly nothing to do with HAL. LCA is not a HAL product, they are just the production agency. Development and validation are all the responsibility of ADA and CEMILC. Has it ever been reported that that delays in LCA are due to inferior quality of HAL’s work? On the contrary not a single airframe loss and the fact that LCA has been able to achieve every target (which includes a naval fighter) speaks to the high QC now found at HAL.

Then they complain about the slow pace of delivery but when you only have 40 committed to orders what’s kind of fool do you have to be to expect HAL to ramp up production beyond 5-8/year? IAF has no problem throwing $4-5bn at Boeing for 10 C17 or looking for 126-189 jets in one go but when it comes to LCA they order 20+20? To this day IAF still haven’t ordered those 83 MK.1A, no doubt in a few years idiots will start blaming HAL for not having delivered the mk1A on time.

Then there’s the price issue. Order so few and then Complain at the higher prices of individual units. I don’t know if these esteemed babus and generals are true morons or have never studied even basic economic theory such as cost amortisation and economies of scale. You have the F16 that has been produced in the 10000s compared to the LCA that hasn’t even touched 40 units yet. The same stupid games were played with the Arjun. DRDO said they needed 500 unit order to bring prices down on par with modern MBTs and to localise spares. What does IA do? Orders 124 units and then complains years later that spares are still being imported. And uses this as a justification to order 400+ T-90.

It seems to me the entire system is set up to deter indigenous development and favour imports.

Line up all these babus and senior military’s leadership, empty their pockets and use them as target practice. They are the worst kind of traitors.



It is clearly the ATGM issue that is being used to stall LCH procurement as of now. HELINA should be ready by the end of this year but now SANT is under trails who wants to bet that IAF/IA will demand SANT is operational before accepting LCH?

2025 is silly. HAL is already making the 15 LSP as of now. They’ll all be ready be the middle of
Next year it’s just that IA and IAF haven’t actually ordered them yet because of this ATGM issue.
The problem with the Indian army is that they demand all damn things from one tank including mine plough, reactive armour, trophy like system, multiple round firing ability etc. As a result when the weight increases, they say that they will not buy the this because the weight is high. If you want a light or medium weight tank only , then give the specification of light or medium weight tank. Don't give the specification of heavy tank and then say that we want the weight to be bellow 55 tons.
 

abingdonboy

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The problem with the Indian army is that they demand all damn things from one tank including mine plough, reactive armour, trophy like system, multiple round firing ability etc. As a result when the weight increases, they say that they will not buy the time because the weight is high. If you want a light or medium weight tank only , then is specification of light or medium weight tank, don't give the specification of heavy tank and then say that we want the weight to be bellow 55 tons.
Okay that would be understandable but do they ask the same from their imported shit? No. Arjun is superior to T90 in every way (including ground pressure). Weight was just a red herring and a ridiculous one at that. US army can use their 70 ton Abrams to invade a foreign hostile nation and Indian army is saying they can’t possibly
Support the 60-65 ton Arjun on THEIR OWN SOIL?

I’m convinced there is a huge amount of corruption at senior levels of all 3 armed services. The way they are able to consistently kill off Indigenous projects on BS grounds and go for imported equipment again and again has no other explanation. There are multiple examples across the landscape

IN
-P75(I) (P76 SSK could easily be developed)
-NUH (seems this was created explicitly to exclude ALH)
-NGMV

IA
- every single small arms deal
- MBTs
-ATGMs

IAF
- Ka-226 when HAL LUH is superior in every way
- MMRCA 2.0 farce when more Rafales and LCA are obvious solution to their SQN woes
 

SajeevJino

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It is clearly the ATGM issue that is being used to stall LCH procurement as of now. HELINA should be ready by the end of this year but now SANT is under trails who wants to bet that IAF/IA will demand SANT is operational before accepting LCH?

2025 is silly. HAL is already making the 15 LSP as of now. They’ll all be ready be the middle of
Next year it’s just that IA and IAF haven’t actually ordered them yet because of this ATGM issue.


they get only DAC approval, MoD or HAL didn't allocated fund to make a assembly line , so how you can say HAL is making the LCH now,

one more, I'm 100% sure neither the SANT or HELINA not gonna be part of the LCH , they might go ahead with the PARS LR3
 

abingdonboy

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they get only DAC approval, MoD or HAL didn't allocated fund to make a assembly line , so how you can say HAL is making the LCH now,

one more, I'm 100% sure neither the SANT or HELINA not gonna be part of the LCH , they might go ahead with the PARS LR3
The production line was operationalised in 2017 in the presence of Jaitley )see my link above) and HAL are making the 15 LSPs from
Their own funds in expectation of getting the official orders soon- again see my link above from TARMAK007.

The reason LCH doesn’t appear on the above order book is because LCH hasn’t actually been ordered by IA of IAF. For
The same reason that HTT-40 production isn’t shown in the above. It is all being done through HAL’s own funds. An order book is just that- it shows what hasn’t been ordered.

The real scandal here is that IA and IAF are refusing to order the LCH.
 

ssg_slayer

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The production line was operationalised in 2017 in the presence of Jaitley )see my link above) and HAL are making the 15 LSPs from
Their own funds in expectation of getting the official orders soon- again see my link above from TARMAK007.
But is it possible to start the production without operational clearance/deployment clearance?
 

abingdonboy

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But is it possible to start the production without operational clearance/deployment clearance?
Yes because most of the design was largely frozen so HAL could start fabricating the basic airframe and such. Only minor tweaks that may change can be catered for. I imagine that HAL won’t completely finish the helos but leave them in a semi-complete state awaiting the final order so they can match the final spec perfectly. But they can do 70-80% of the work in preparation. Meaning when orders finally come it will be a matter of months before first deliveries commence instead of 2-3 years.
 

vishnugupt

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No doubt about it. People drag HAL’s name
Through the mud over LCA because of the delays which is explicitly nothing to do with HAL. LCA is not a HAL product, they are just the production agency. Development and validation are all the responsibility of ADA and CEMILC. Has it ever been reported that that delays in LCA are due to inferior quality of HAL’s work? On the contrary not a single airframe loss and the fact that LCA has been able to achieve every target (which includes a naval fighter) speaks to the high QC now found at HAL.

Then they complain about the slow pace of delivery but when you only have 40 committed to orders what’s kind of fool do you have to be to expect HAL to ramp up production beyond 5-8/year? IAF has no problem throwing $4-5bn at Boeing for 10 C17 or looking for 126-189 jets in one go but when it comes to LCA they order 20+20? To this day IAF still haven’t ordered those 83 MK.1A, no doubt in a few years idiots will start blaming HAL for not having delivered the mk1A on time.

Then there’s the price issue. Order so few and then Complain at the higher prices of individual units. I don’t know if these esteemed babus and generals are true morons or have never studied even basic economic theory such as cost amortisation and economies of scale. You have the F16 that has been produced in the 10000s compared to the LCA that hasn’t even touched 40 units yet. The same stupid games were played with the Arjun. DRDO said they needed 500 unit order to bring prices down on par with modern MBTs and to localise spares. What does IA do? Orders 124 units and then complains years later that spares are still being imported. And uses this as a justification to order 400+ T-90.

It seems to me the entire system is set up to deter indigenous development and favour imports.

Line up all these babus and senior military’s leadership, empty their pockets and use them as target practice. They are the worst kind of traitors.



It is clearly the ATGM issue that is being used to stall LCH procurement as of now. HELINA should be ready by the end of this year but now SANT is under trails who wants to bet that IAF/IA will demand SANT is operational before accepting LCH?

2025 is silly. HAL is already making the 15 LSP as of now. They’ll all be ready be the middle of
Next year it’s just that IA and IAF haven’t actually ordered them yet because of this ATGM issue.
You are damn correct. Armed force official are kings in this game they just order their defence agents to hire dalal journalists to put blame on HAL but HAL possess no such mechanism. Every time, just before, any indigenous product set to get inducted armed forces import the same product in the name of emergency procurement. Platus, Russian/Israeli AAM, Spike, Spider, Light aircraft, Apache, Kamov heli, Tanks, guns... almost everything
 

vishnugupt

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Whoever thinking Jaitley started manufacturing of LCH ( Like Rajnath Singh inducted MSMC ) are either don't know inter-organization gimmicks or don't want them heartbroken. Why HAL, which is already suffering from delays in other projects, struggling to maintain balance sheet and being blamed for even USSR manufactured AN 32 crash, would fund the manufacturing of LCH which has no costumer ( no firm orders ). How much 15 fully developed LCH will cost ?? and who will pay if armed forces reject all 15 in the evaluation and demand fresh trials like Arjun or who will give the guarantee of orders. A company runs by demand, not by emotions
 

Suryavanshi

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Armed force official are kings in this game they just order their defence agents to hire dalal journalists to put blame on HAL but HAL possess no such mechanism
Who are these officials exactly?
Heard a lot about military babus rigging procurement policies for foreign maal. If so is the case why can't they be booked for committing treason and suppressing Indians Industry?
Who are the ones that draw up Requirement for a wepaon systems?
 

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