HAL Hawk

[lcafanboy]

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-to-present-500th-display/article17293068.ece

Pilots will perform tomorrow at Aero India in their new BAE Hawk aircraft
Tuesday will mark a new record for the Surya Kiran Aerobatics team of the Indian Air Force as it will be the 500th public display for the team since its formation in 1996.

On Sunday, the team was busy rehearsing for the upcoming display schedule during Aero India 2017, which will see pilots performing daredevil stunts in their new BAE Hawk aircraft. “Aero India is always a favourite venue for us as we love to perform before a domestic audience. Our team is always thrilled to perform here,” said Wing Commander Ajit Kulkarni, Commanding Officer of the Surya Kiran team.

Speaking to The Hindu about the new aircraft and its capabilities, he said the new Hawks were capable of flying at much faster speeds than the Kiran Mk II aircraft, which was used by the team in 2011.

While the Kiran Mk II was capable of maximum speed of up to 450 kmph, the new and more agile Hawk aircraft are pushed up to 650 kmph by the pilots during their formation flying and aerobatics displays. In close formation flying, the wing tips will be only 4-5 metres apart and the planes will be hurtling through the air at a minimum speed of 222 kmph. For the team, the journey since inception of the Hawks in 2015 has been an uphill one with only three members of the original Surya Kiran team being part of the new team. “Three more Squadron Leaders joined us in 2015 and last year we have recruited five more. We plan to increase the number of aircraft to nine by the end of this year,” Wing Commander Kulkarni said.

No smoke trails this year

The Surya Kiran team will be performing with six aircraft this year at Aero India, but spectators will have to watch them with eagle eyes as the planes will not have smoke installations. The Hawk aircraft being used by the team are yet to be kitted for burning smoke oil, according to sources.

As a result, though the team will be performing some of their signature moves, it may be difficult to spot them in the sky as they will be moving at speeds far exceeding the previous Kiran Mk II aircraft’s maximum speeds without the tell tale trail of smoke.

The Hawks, which were pulled out of active service in 2015 and given to the team, will have to undergo airframe modifications to incorporate the smoke machines. This is reportedly being carried out by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) but has not been completed yet.

According to experts, smoke trails, besides being aesthetically pleasing, also play an important role in the safety procedures of the pilots as it helps them locate team members in the sky besides providing visual cues of the movement of the aircraft during manoeuvres.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

For the start, Learn what this was about :

The HAL HJT 39, aka CAT (Combat Air Trainer), is an Advance Jet Trainer (AJT) project proposal by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the Indian Air Force. CAT is Planned as a twin engine transonic “Lead in Fighter Trainer” (LIFT) with a very substantial ground attack capability with a maximum speed of 1,000 km/hr, HAL HJT 39 CAT Programme was Announced at Aero India, February 2005, with Mockup of front fuselage and cockpit shown. It is Projected to fly within three and a half years of go-ahead with airframe and engine commonality with HAL HJT-36 Sitara, avionics comparable with those of HJT-36 and HAL Tejas.

CAT 25 the idea was to replace the kiran and hawk which it will soon.

 

[Prayash]

Hawk-i today at afs yelahanka

 

[Kunal Biswas]

NEW DELHI — The Indian Air Force says it will not make an acquisition request for the British Advanced Hawk trainer aircraft. "We will not make any formal request for the Advanced Hawk to HAL, and the program will be officially shelved. This is because the MoD does not want [to] give additional orders for engines to tainted Rolls-Royce for the Advanced Hawk program," a senior IAF official said. "IAF has no intentions to place any order for the Advanced Hawk trainers."

The decision comes after the Ministry of Defence asked the service not request the aircraft following allegations that British company Rolls-Royce bribed officials of India's state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited between 2005 and 2009 to secure orders for engines to power the British Hawk 132 advanced jet trainers meant for the Indian Air Force.

No MoD official would comment on whether there is a proposal to blacklist Rolls-Royce, and no Rolls-Royce executives were available for comment. Last month, a British court was told that Rolls-Royce allegedly engaged middlemen to help the company secure deals in India for engine production for the Hawk trainer between 2005 and 2009. Indian law does not allow the involvement of middlemen in securing defense deals.In November 2016, an internal MoD report concluded that Rolls-Royce paid bribes to secure orders for Adour Mk aero engines for the Hawk advanced jet trainer being produced by HAL under license from BAE Systems. India had contracted 123 Hawk Mk-132 advanced jet trainers from BAE Systems for the IAF and the Navy.

Source : http://www.defensenews.com/articles/indian-air-force-rejects-british-advanced-hawk-aircraft

 

[sbm]

Hawk I and Advanced Hawk are different aircraft. The former is a HAL product improved Hawk AJT. The Advanced Hawk is reengineered and modified considerably. It is the latter that the IAF is not keen on. It is an overstatement that no more orders for Rolls Royce engines will be forthcoming. The article seems to be an exaggerating.

 

[Shaitan]

It's mentioning this --

Hawk-i is basically a further improve, indigenized hawk platform, but not a further improvement like the AH.

Hawk-i, inhouse HAL program on Hawk platform.

Advanced Hawk, a JV between HAL and BAE for export, domestic induction of a much further improved Hawk. Also weaponized.

 

[scatterStorm]

IMO I think it's a good move, as this would push combat jet training on AV Hawks making it mandatory. As we further push ourselves for the development of indigenous platforms, it would play a key role for training our pilot's for more advanced jet's like the AMCA.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Better focus of Sitara, Its time for CAT-25, Next challenge is to power Sitara and CAT-25 by Indian engines ..

 

[lcafanboy]

Rolls-Royce opens defence service delivery centre in India
Rolls-Royce is looking to improve capability and provide faster front-line support for over 750 engines in a range of aircraft in India

Sharan PoovannaSharan Poovanna

The Rolls-Royce centre will have at least 10 specialized engineers and service personnel to find localised solutions specific to India. Photo: AFP
Aircraft engine maker Rolls-Royce Holdings Plc on Thursday opened a new defence service delivery centre (SDC) in Bengaluru, the first outside the US and UK, to provide localized engineering support and solutions and reduce turnaround time for the Indian Air Force, Indian Navy and state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL).

Rolls-Royce is looking to improve capability and provide faster front-line support for over 750 engines in a range of aircraft used by the defence as well as commercial aircraft such as the C-130J, Hawk advanced jet, Embraer and Jaguar, among others.

Shaun Agle, vice-president (customer services), India defence, said the new service delivery centre will be able to deliver real-time solutions through MRO (maintenance repair and overhaul), provide first and second line of support, have field service representatives, manage the health of the fleet, manage supply chains and collaborate with the armed forces.

India is the last remaining user of the Jaguar type of aircraft and is one of the largest users of the Hawk, the company said, while trying to highlight the need for a local presence.

The SDC will have at least 10 specialized engineers and service personnel to find localised solutions specific to India. The SDC is based on the model operated by the company at Marham in the UK and Kingsville in the US.



The company did not quantify the reduction in time or cost that would result from setting up the local SDC, which will do the work that would otherwise have been referred to Bristol, UK.

Last year, Indian customers raised 138 issues, according to the company, which were referred to Bristol.

Rolls Royce has over 1,600 engineers based in India who help provide solutions for the UK-based company’s global customers, Kishore Jayaraman, president, India and South Asia, said
http://www.livemint.com/Companies/m...defence-service-delivery-centre-in-India.html

 

[lcafanboy]

EJ-230 coming for AMCA?

Also with Rolls Royce and Safran both coming to India and Kaveri getting matured with help from Safran India should not face Aero Engine problems in future, good move good for India.

@IndianHawk @Willy2 @roma @Krusty @Defcon 1 @Ghanteshwar @raheel besharam @raja696 @Amr@AnkitPurohit @Akshay_Fenix @aditya10r @airtel @aditya10r @ancientIndian @Bahamut @Berkut @Bornubus@Bengal_Tiger @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @HariSud @hit&run @hardip @indiandefencefan @IndianHawk@JayPatel @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @Mikesingh @NavneetKundu @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra@PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @smestarz @SakalGhareluUstad @Srinivas_K @ShashankSharma @Superdefender@Screambowl @TacticalFrog @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Project Dharma @Hari Prasad_1

 

[Srinivas_K]

Eco system is being built for AMCA!

 

[Mikesingh]

That's good news! They need to fast track the project.

 

[smestarz]

It might seem that India wants Kaveri for Tejas Mk1A plane which we also plan to offer to friendly countries like Vietnam, Malaysia etc,. Since its an Indian engine, there would not be any problem.
Tejas with GE engines would have restrictions to export. It depends on when the Kaveri engine is ready, it could be used even for Tejas MK 2

If we are developing a version of EJ 230 then we are looking at it for Tejas Mk II and but definitely AMCA and it would be with thrust vectoring capability.

The important part is that if we have our hands in different pies, we shall have good option for what engines to use for our next plane. We could possibly develop our twin engine naval carrier plane

EJ-230 coming for AMCA?

Also with Rolls Royce and Safran both coming to India and Kaveri getting matured with help from Safran India should not face Aero Engine problems in future, good move good for India.

@IndianHawk @Willy2 @roma @Krusty @Defcon 1 @Ghanteshwar @raheel besharam @raja696 @Amr@AnkitPurohit @Akshay_Fenix @aditya10r @airtel @aditya10r @ancientIndian @Bahamut @Berkut @Bornubus@Bengal_Tiger @ersakthivel @FRYCRY @Gessler @HariSud @hit&run @hardip @indiandefencefan @IndianHawk@JayPatel @Kshatriya87 @LETHALFORCE @Mikesingh @NavneetKundu @OneGrimPilgrim @pmaitra@PaliwalWarrior @Pulkit @smestarz @SakalGhareluUstad @Srinivas_K @ShashankSharma @Superdefender@Screambowl @TacticalFrog @Kunal Biswas @sayareakd @Project Dharma @Hari Prasad_1

 

[akk]

Too much speculation going on! Saurav jha article suggests the situation of kaveri is pretty pathetic, not likely to touch 80kn in foreseeable future. No idea whatsoever about RR collaboration whether it is a small jaguar engine or a landmark 120kn engine or something in between. only wild guessing happening. Does anybody has any "reasonably reliable" source to confirm amy firm development, which is beyond "wild speculation"?

 

[Cutting Edge 2]

Rolls-Royce to ramp up defence manufacturing facilities in India
Looking for strategic partners in design, development and manufacturing

Published on May 25, 2017

In a bid to leverage India’s engineering prowess, Rolls-Royce is looking to ramp up its newly established engineering centre in Pune. The engineering centre supports the company’s marine and power systems business.

“The centre supports research and development programmes, product development and project management as well as customer projects, including data analysis and computer-aided engineering,” said Kishore Jayaraman, President, Rolls-Royce, India and South Asia.

Defence manufacturing
“The engine test bed located at Rolls-Royce Power Systems’ Pune site provides engineers the ability to conduct performance testing on new engines designed at the centre,” Jayaraman told BusinessLine. The company is keen to position India as a global manufacturing hub in defence, and is looking domestically to fulfil its vision of making in India for India and the world, he added.

“With a growing engineering footprint in India, we are keen to support India’s indigenisation ambitions by collaborating with strategic partners in the country.

We are looking to establish a robust ecosystem that will engage in co-creation across the entire value-chain, from research, design and development to manufacturing, maintenance and repair,” Jayaraman added.

Tie-up with shipyard
To that end, the company has teamed up with Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers (GRSE), a defence shipyard associated with the Indian Navy, to help assemble naval engines in the country. The MTU Series 4000 engines from Rolls-Royce Power Systems are to be assembled at GRSE’s plant in Ranchi, and will be installed in a wide range of naval vessels constructed by GRSE.

“The relationship (with GRSE) began with the assembly of MTU Series 538 and 396 engines at the Diesel Engine Plant (DEP) in Ranchi. Since 2004, GRSE has been assembling Series 4000 engines, which are best in class in terms of reliability and availability in India. GRSE has already assembled more than 100 MTU engines so far,” Jayaraman said.

‘Ideal partnership’
MTU is a brand of Rolls-Royce Power Systems. Praveen Mohan, CEO of MTU India, told BusinessLine that local production of parts was a natural progression since “MTU has been focusing on building partnerships in India and GRSE has been a very reliable and excellent licensee partner for us.”

With Rolls-Royce, GRSE is looking to achieve 40 per cent indigenous content progressively for the MTU 4000 series engines. The agreement between the two companies also includes plans for the transfer of MTU technology related to assembly, testing and painting, in addition to an option for the local production of parts in the near future.

India’s advantages
India’s “inherent advantages” was a major pull for the UK firm, according to Jayaraman. “The region has lot to offer by way of cost competitiveness, skilled talent as well as growing engineering and manufacturing capabilities.”

A combination of all these factors enabled the firm to drive increased growth for the Rolls-Royce group, he said.

“We hope to leverage on the high technology and cost competitive sourcing in India across engineering, manufacturing capability and supply chain activities, as well as capturing indigenous market opportunities,” he added.

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com...turing-facilities-in-india/article9712708.ece

 

[Sledge]

First and Second line capability for ROH should be developed withinIndia through agencies like HAL. It is for fourth line servicing only, that the aero-engine should be going back to OEM like Rolls Royce in this case. There should have been transfer of technology to make the Indian self sufficient to undertake at least first and second line maintenance services.​

 

[Flame Thrower]

@sthf my friend... Kargil was the wakeup call for IAF.

Before Kargil we didn't have any PGMs in our arsenal.

IAF had lower sortie rate because it didn't had any PGMs. If we had PGMs then Kargil would have ended in a week, not 2 months.

IAF is having a very good reason for mulling over Combat hawk.

Jaguars Mig 27s which are current strike aircraft, of these Mig 27s have become very old and unreliable. We have 90 hawks, these can be used to bomb enemy targets thus freeing other fighters for air to air and take load off from Jaguars.

Soon HTT 40 will also be armed and equipped for Anti Tank and CAS roles like the AT-6.

Thus I rest my case.

 

[tejas warrior]

@sthf my friend... Kargil was the wakeup call for IAF.

Before Kargil we didn't have any PGMs in our arsenal.

IAF had lower sortie rate because it didn't had any PGMs. If we had PGMs then Kargil would have ended in a week, not 2 months.

IAF is having a very good reason for mulling over Combat hawk.

Jaguars Mig 27s which are current strike aircraft, of these Mig 27s have become very old and unreliable. We have 90 hawks, these can be used to bomb enemy targets thus freeing other fighters for air to air and take load off from Jaguars.

Soon HTT 40 will also be armed and equipped for Anti Tank and CAS roles like the AT-6.

Thus I rest my case.

Combat Hawk is a tactics used by UK to sell more Hawk to India.

It costs same or more as LCA MK1.

Tell me which one you want to see in that kind of operations ?

 

[sthf]

@tejas warrior @Flame Thrower

Entire rationale behind Advanced Hawks is the cost effectiveness and better utilisation of existing assets. IAF has a fleet of nearly 123 Hawks which are brand new. Hawks are already paid for. No one is saying that new Hawks should be bought just for CAS. HAL is offering to modify to existing airframes. If HAL manages to achieve that in a time bound and cost effective manner, it can be a great asset during wartime. Those 8 squadrons worth of Hawks can do battlefield support thus providing IAF flexibility of engaging a range of small, less defended targets without committing more capable aircrafts like MKI or Tejas. Brimstone offers good standoff capability which keeps Hawks out of the range of short range SAMs, Manpads and AAA.

So it is not a bad deal if things go right.

 

[Flame Thrower]

Combat Hawk is a tactics used by UK to sell more Hawk to India.

It costs same or more as LCA MK1.

Tell me which one you want to see in that kind of operations ?

I didn't asked to buy combat hawks...

There are plug and play targeting systems which can be connected to existing trainer Hawks and can be used for dropping PGMs.

As @Kunal Biswas bhai had pointed out IAF had rejected this proposal somewhere around 2015/16

But kunal bhai, after rejecting the modification to Hawks, discussion had come for armed HTT 40. So I have little hopes for armed hawks especially when hawks get their MLU. If I am not wrong, HAL were talking about the prospects of HTFE 25 or its uprated engine going into MLU of Hawks.

@tejas warrior Combat hawk is whole lot different than what I am asking for.

Combat hawks comw with Advanced radar, BVR missiles, IFR, ground targeting systems. In short converting the existing trainers into a medicore 4th gen fighter. It was meant to be a competitive for existing light 4th gen fighters around 30 mil. Going for combat hawk is a pure waste of resources