Greatest Indian of the 20th Century

Choose one of your favourite Indian of last Century


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Pratap

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We sea the history from 1900 to 2000 of India....

Here we come across many people, many movements and many personalities who influenced the minds of the Indians and changed the course of Indian History.....

Prior to Independence it was undoubtedly Gandhi who influenced and contributed to Indian history the most. He contributed to Indian freedom from the colonial rule. He influenced the Indian masses with his philosophy of non violence and the culture and concept of mass movement. Mass movement was so foreign to Nehru and Jinnah but they both picked it up from him, but not before Subhash Bose would do that. At a different level Arobindo Ghosh and Tilak influenced the English educated Indian Hindus to a great degree with their religious political thoughts. Jinnah and Nehru ended up dividing India, if it can at all be termed as contribution at all.

There were so many others - Bhagat Singh, MN Roy, The Neval Mutiny and the terrorist movements to name a few.

But what largely shaped India was Nehru and Sardar Patel's refusal to give in to an archaic fundamentalist Muslim attitude of black mail of usurping entire India for Muslim rule merely as exchange of British Rule with Mogul Rule. The Muslim elites as also the Hindus accepted division of the country but not the Muslim blackmail under new circumstances and in a new historic context. That would turn out to be the best decision they would take and history would judge it as wise decision some of it already having been proved . The Indians ( who think they were Indians) would establish their own state and the country and the Moguls got their pie rather than whole of India as Jinnah or many other Muslim elites dreamt of .

After independence, Nehru faltered and let down the idea of India right in 1948. He was more interested in perpetuating his rule and imposing his own brand of Mogul Type dynastic rule through his selective idea of secularism rather than endearing himself to the majority which he could never do and would have not been successful to do. He very badly proved to be the guilty man of 1962, the greatest shame India suffered in 20th century largely due to him, his misplaced ideas and his political cronies.

His daugheter, Indira Gandhi emerged as a big leader and led the country to the victory over Pakistan in 1972. That gave a great sense of confidence to the nation. However, she also emerged as murder of democracy in India. She was responsible for fracturing the polity and sectorisation of Hindu society. Vote bank politics of the kind existing today was her ill - contribution.

Out of all, however, Indira Gandhi does emerge as a leader who faced vast challenges, safeguarded Indian interests in the backdrop of intense Pakistani hostility, cold war pressures , American hostility and gave confidence to the nation in the victory of 1971. It was a defining moment for the emergence of India as a self confident nation.

It is unfortunate she is not even listed. That speaks about the bankruptcy and superficiality of the initiator of the thread.

I am sorry for being harsh.



Netaji subhash chandra bose
Mahatma gandhi
Sardar vallabh bhai patel
General Sam Manekshaw
Homi jahangir bhabha
Jawahar lal nehru


But for Indira Gandhi's leadership in crucial times we would not be what we are today....


Indira Gandhi did not do anything and so rightly not listed. Crediting her for victory, self confidence , handling American pressure etc. is done by sycophants of Nehru dynasty not by independent intellectuals like you but what can I say further? She was just " Didda" and nothing else.

Your admission of partition is also quite shocking .
 

Bhadra

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Indira Gandhi did not do anything and so rightly not listed.
Ok, but I thought, out of all people at the helm of affairs, she was the best as also the worst. India could withstand her worst acts of Emergency but would have suffered major debacle if she faltered in 1971. Indians faltered in 1948 largely due to Nehru by halting military operations in J&K. Indians again barely managed to keep the Mogul Army rechristened as Paki Army at bay in 1965. However in 1971, India demolished the Pakistani elites idea of their being Moguls and re ruling India once again from Red Fort in Delhi ( That Mogul named Zaid Hamid and his ancestors in Paki Army openly used to say that - I am not inventing any thing). What 1971 achieved was that it defeated the Mogul idea of Pakistan that with their military might they will re-enact another Battle of Panipat and capture Delhi. It demolished the basic idea of Partition - the two nation theory. Indira did have a role to play in that. It would not be fare not to accept that.

Crediting her for victory, self confidence , handling American pressure etc. is done by sycophants of Nehru dynasty
You could say that but I gave in my two cents.
not by independent intellectuals like you but what can I say further?
I am independent but far far away from being intellectual when I can barely garble a few words.

She was just " Didda" and nothing else.
Yes she was Daddi alright. She had that streak in her !

Your admission of partition is also quite shocking .
That is my opinion. I know that was very tragic for millions but that is what Muslim elites like Jinnaha and Iqbal wanted. Their postulation was very simple - The British took away their Mogul rule which should be handed over back to them at the lime of independence. They were very hostile to share power through democracy which necessarily meant rule of majority. They even opposed Khilafat movement of Gandhi simply because they could not see a Hindu faqir leading the Muslims Ulema. How could they be behind a Kafir. They wanted proportionate representation to benefit a few Nawabs and Nizams. They wanted to enjoy bigger privileges at the cost of Muslim numbers but within India. Hence at that point in history, partition was the best option which threw them into the fringes as per the ill-conceived idea of PAKISTAN. Their idea of a Bengali, Pathan, Baluchi, Punjabi and Sindhi being one because of being Muslims was shattered in 1971. That it is in continuum of the process of disintegration thence after, is for every one to see.

That is why I say that partition was a better choice at that point in time. That brought wars on the borders of India from the perpetual historical western frontiers but wars waged by smaller feudatory of Pakistani Nawabs driven out of Delhi but settled now in Lahore and Karachi. It ,however, kept out the Tribal , Iranians, Turks, Arabs and Afghanis waging wars against India like they always did historically through Punjab and Sindh.

The history throws up the sources, avenues and trend of conflict bases on geography, economics, demography etc and the area that is Pakistan can not be isolated from those factors of history. Management of the Tribals of frontiers even today costs Pakistani a huge sum and shall continue to bleed them. Both being Muslims can not solve the problem. Threat from Iran and Afghanistan to Pakistan can not be wished away. It is a reality whether it manifests or not. The future Changes Khans and Alexanders will have to come via Pakistan. That is good buffer for the India's Punjab, Rajasthan and Gangetic plains of India, albeit at the lesser costs of Keeping Nawabs of Lahore contained on the line of Indus.

Connection with the energy rich CAR was not a factor in that point of history. It was the other way round. And who has ever been able to stop passage to the mighty in history ? Buffers delay and may not necessarily deny. Europeans wars and campaigns amply demonstrate that. The requirement is to so mighty that the opponent himself must offer it.

Pakistan saved India from the humiliations of drones, Jihads, Laskars and providing bases to Western powers.

On the other side Bangladeshis as always are enjoying their prosperity of Dal - Bhat - Jhol peacefully.


Well, I had to provide a long explanation for my endorsement of partition which can run to form a book, though.
 
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Bhadra

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[Ayesha Jalal]

Altaf Husain Hali (1837-1914)

Farewell O Hindustan, O autumnless garden
We your homeless guests have stayed too long

Laden though we are today with complaints
The marks of your past favors are upon us still

You treated strangers like relations
We were guests but you made us the hosts
....
You gave us wealth, government and dominion
For which of your many kindnesses should we express gratitude

But such hospitality is ultimately unsustainable
All that you gave you kept in the end

Well, one has a right to one's own property
Take it from whoever you want, give it to whoever you will

Pull out our tongues the very instant
They forgetfully utter a word of complaint about this

But the complaint is that what we brought with us
That too you took away and turned us into beggars
....
You've turned lions into lowly beings, O Hind
Those who were Afghan hunters came here to become the hunted ones

We had foreseen all these misfortunes
When we came here leaving our country and friends

We were convinced that adversity would befall us in time
And we O Hind would be devoured by you
....
So long as O Hindustan we were not called Hindi
We had some graces which were not found in others

You've made our condition frightening
We were fire O Hind, you've turned us into ash

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...X3maBaDObz8BQ7ZAMzHUf4g&bvm=bv.63808443,d.bmk
 
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Bhadra

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Presented in support of my arguments above
 
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warriorextreme

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Why not Ramaswamy Periyar?
Although some of his views were revolutionary, most of his teachings endorsed violence against a certain community..I am not saying that his certain community did not deserve this, but hatred only gives birth to more hatred and divides nation...

Some of his statements like the one below have been proven utterly false:

"Only if the Brahmin is destroyed, caste will be destroyed. The Brahmin is a snake entangled in our feet. He will bite. If you take off your leg, that's all. Don't leave. Brahmin is not able to dominate because power is in the hands of the Tamilian.

What Babasaheb did was more constructive than destructive...his ideology and his teachings have contributed not only to the growth of Maharashtra but also to this nation.
 

Pratap

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Although some of his views were revolutionary, most of his teachings endorsed violence against a certain community..I am not saying that his certain community did not deserve this, but hatred only gives birth to more hatred and divides nation...

Some of his statements like the one below have been proven utterly false:

"Only if the Brahmin is destroyed, caste will be destroyed. The Brahmin is a snake entangled in our feet. He will bite. If you take off your leg, that's all. Don't leave. Brahmin is not able to dominate because power is in the hands of the Tamilian.

What Babasaheb did was more constructive than destructive...his ideology and his teachings have contributed not only to the growth of Maharashtra but also to this nation.
His ideology and teachings have only led to growth of Dalit charlatans like Kanshiram , Mayawati and Sushil Shinde. This nation grew because of Ambedkar? Given the fact that India has one of the lowest HDI , I do not know what your definition of growth is. Perhaps like congressi intellectuals, Ambedkarites want us to believe hat India was a hunter gatherer nation before Ambedkar.

Dayanand, Gandhi and other reformers did more than this paid british agent so far as removing of caste inequalities is concerned( all of these were westernized so even they do not deserve that much credit)
 

Peter

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His ideology and teachings have only led to growth of Dalit charlatans like Kanshiram , Mayawati and Sushil Shinde. This nation grew because of Ambedkar? Given the fact that India has one of the lowest HDI , I do not know what your definition of growth is. Perhaps like congressi intellectuals, Ambedkarites want us to believe hat India was a hunter gatherer nation before Ambedkar.

Dayanand, Gandhi and other reformers did more than this paid british agent so far as removing of caste inequalities is concerned( all of these were westernized so even they do not deserve that much credit)
Ambedkar,Gandhi,Netaji etc were far greater men than all of us.Let us not go into who did what and what was their contribution.If they were not great then so many people would not have regarded them as their hero.Let us talk of the positives of Ambedkar and Indira Gandhi.

(Btw Ambedkar spoke for Dalits and told them to organize,educate and stand up against oppression.Whats wrong with that?)
 

Pratap

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Ambedkar,Gandhi,Netaji etc were far greater men than all of us.Let us not go into who did what and what was their contribution.If they were not great then so many people would not have regarded them as their hero.Let us talk of the positives of Ambedkar and Indira Gandhi.

(Btw Ambedkar spoke for Dalits and told them to organize,educate and stand up against oppression.Whats wrong with that?)
Churchill is also regarded as hero by entire Anglosaxon world. Once you have become famous, you will be regarded as hero.

As far as Ambedkar is concerned, he asked them to stand up against oppression but he was not unique. Dayanand, Gandhi and Narayan Guru also asked and worked for dalit upliftment. There was nothing unique about Ambedkar except that among all reformers, he alone was anti hindu and a dalit. The british propaganda needed such man a man who could be dalit as well as anti hindu to show how inferior Indic religions were. Saying that dalits need education and better treatment had many takers and thanks to British, anti caste sentiments were running high in India. Ambedkar was just one ordinary lawyer whose only quality was that he was a dalit and nothing more.

BTW, Ambedkar called brahmans as nazis. You really think that brahmins were nazis?
 

Peter

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Churchill is also regarded as hero by entire Anglosaxon world. Once you have become famous, you will be regarded as hero.

As far as Ambedkar is concerned, he asked them to stand up against oppression but he was not unique. Dayanand, Gandhi and Narayan Guru also asked and worked for dalit upliftment. There was nothing unique about Ambedkar except that among all reformers, he alone was anti hindu and a dalit. The british propaganda needed such man a man who could be dalit as well as anti hindu to show how inferior Indic religions were. Saying that dalits need education and better treatment had many takers and thanks to British, anti caste sentiments were running high in India. Ambedkar was just one ordinary lawyer whose only quality was that he was a dalit and nothing more.

BTW, Ambedkar called brahmans as nazis. You really think that brahmins were nazis?
I was just asking that the negatives of such great men be not highlighted.Everyone has faults and even a person like Gandhi had faults according to some.You should come to Bengal and see how Bengalis look upon Gandhi.He along with Nehru are considered villains by majority of Bengalis if not all.Rather the positive traits of men like Patel,Netaji etc should be talked about.(There is a book(Indomitable Sardar) which mentions that Patel would have become PM but instead Gandhi asked Nehru to be the PM)
http://bharatuntoldstory.tumblr.com/post/32806564503/how-sardar-patel-did-not-become-first-pm-of
http://history.stackexchange.com/qu...-prime-minister-candidate-and-not-sardar-pate

Also another fact was Sardar Patel played a key role in the appointment OF Ambedkar along with Gandhi,Nehru.

Currently it seems Patel and Netaji are on same footing.Hope Netaji wins the polls.:laugh:
 
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Bhadra

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I was just asking that the negatives of such great men be not highlighted.Everyone has faults and even a person like Gandhi had faults according to some.You should come to Bengal and see how Bengali look upon Gandhi.He along with Nehru are considered villains by majority of Bengalis if not all.Rather the positives of men like Patel,Netaji etc be talked about.

Currently it seems Patel and Netaji are on same footing.Hope Netaji wins the polls.:laugh:
It appears from your answer that your heart overrides your mind and you simply want to push Neta ji because he was a Bengali !!
 

Bhadra

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His ideology and teachings have only led to growth of Dalit charlatans like Kanshiram , Mayawati and Sushil Shinde. This nation grew because of Ambedkar? Given the fact that India has one of the lowest HDI , I do not know what your definition of growth is. Perhaps like congressi intellectuals, Ambedkarites want us to believe hat India was a hunter gatherer nation before Ambedkar.

Dayanand, Gandhi and other reformers did more than this paid british agent so far as removing of caste inequalities is concerned( all of these were westernized so even they do not deserve that much credit)
Hmmm...Jai Bhim !!
 

Bhadra

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Churchill is also regarded as hero by entire Anglosaxon world. Once you have become famous, you will be regarded as hero.

As far as Ambedkar is concerned, he asked them to stand up against oppression but he was not unique. Dayanand, Gandhi and Narayan Guru also asked and worked for dalit upliftment. There was nothing unique about Ambedkar except that among all reformers, he alone was anti hindu and a dalit. The british propaganda needed such man a man who could be dalit as well as anti hindu to show how inferior Indic religions were. Saying that dalits need education and better treatment had many takers and thanks to British, anti caste sentiments were running high in India. Ambedkar was just one ordinary lawyer whose only quality was that he was a dalit and nothing more.

BTW, Ambedkar called brahmans as nazis. You really think that brahmins were nazis?
Only Nazi.... that is too mild !!
 

Peter

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It appears from your answer that your heart overrides your mind and you simply want to push Neta ji because he was a Bengali !!
No Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose is the greatest INDIAN in my heart and mind.Netaji Bose FTW.
 
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shinoj

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Gandhi really went down in my estimation, He was never high in the first place, after he said about Shivaji,Rana Pratap and co as Misguided Patriots. He really was a Big Blot in Indian Nationalism.
 

Pratap

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Gandhi really went down in my estimation, He was never high in the first place, after he said about Shivaji,Rana Pratap and co as Misguided Patriots. He really was a Big Blot in Indian Nationalism.
True that. His brahmacharya experiments are also enough indication of his mental shallowness. If he remained active for a decade more, India would have been cut to Pakistan size. His remarks on Hindu women of Sindh and Punjab was also rather cruel as he asked them to go back to Pakistan when they fled jehadis due to danger of being raped. It is high time that Gandhi is publicly humiliated for his nonsense.
 

Peter

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Nowadays, Mulayam Singh is called Netaji.:rofl:
Ok meant Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose.The man who stood 4th in ICS exam.The man who took up arms against the British during WWII instead of spending his time on useless agitations.If Indians forget him we have no hope left in this country.

(Gandhi and Patel also had many problems.Shows not everyone liked Gandhi.So Netaji was no exception.Only Nehru chacha had apparent love for Gandhi or did he?)
 
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