Govt set to clear 40,000-strong force along China border

SilentKiller

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

We cannot build state of the Art defense foctories in the borders. But we can build Ammunition factories which will produce Bullets, shells etc. this will reduce the necessity to transport everything from the Mainland. Also this will ensure that we have employment opportunities to the North east.

On T-72 yes they should be phased out in favor of Arjun. But still we need another Tank factory as we cannot further Expand in Avadi and also we will end up to transport the Spares for 2000 kms in war time. A second factory will help increase the rate of production of tanks in the country and will help us to quickly deploy replacement to the gunned down tanks.

We need more AFC's in the northern sector and even more Helicopters. Its time to start outsourcing the Weapons production to Indian Private players.
It will depend on order, instead of public PSU's i would love to see india private sector make new factory.
still not sure that N-E should get any defence factory or not, if we improve road connectivity too it would be quite helpfull.
remove illegal immigrants too.
 

bennedose

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

chinis have more than 2 lakhs foji in that area.
Just like "Indian troops killed 1000000000 Kashmiri civilians" this statement about Chinese fauj is continuously repeated in the media and by the lay public. Which area are these fojis present?

I think we need to look at some of these things in greater detail if we are to be better informed than the politicos whom we like to bash
 

TrueSpirit

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

when my father was posted on leh, he also mentioned that we lack infra on this front on much larger scale.
So, you must be well aware that entire Leh depends heavily on diesel generators for power generation....this sector's vulnerability to a debilitating PLA's first strike cannot be overstated.
 

SilentKiller

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

So, you must be well aware that entire Leh depends heavily on diesel generators for power generation....this sector's vulnerability to a debilitating PLA's first strike cannot be overstated.
leh is surely vulnerable, don't know the situation right now.
leh desperately needs infra upgrades
 

Coalmine

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

Boost to Army: CCS clears 50,000-strong strike corps for China border

[video]http://static.indianexpress.com/m-images/Thu%20Jul%2018%202013,%2004:04%20hrs/M_Id_402757_FP.jpg[/video]

Boosting the Army's fighting capabilities along the Line of Actual Control, the government Wednesday gave the go-ahead to the creation of a corps, including deployment of 50,000 additional troops, along the China border at a cost of around Rs 65,000 crore.

The Cabinet Committee on Security headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh cleared the proposal in its meeting, said sources. Army Chief General Bikram Singh and IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne were also present at the PMO for providing any clarifications sought by the CCS members.

As part of the plan, the Army is expected to raise the new corps' headquarters at Panagarh in West Bengal, along with two divisions in Bihar and Assam and other units, from Ladakh to Arunachal Pradesh. The IAF will also deploy its force multiplier assets such as six mid-air refuelling tankers and six C-130J Super Hercules special operations aircraft at Panagarh.

The existing strike corps are all based close to the Pakistan border and are mainly armed to fight a land battle, unlike the new corps which will focus on mountain warfare.

The Army will raise the troops and formations in the next seven years. It will also get a number of new armoured and artillery divisions to be deployed along the Northeast region.

The force is also planning to procure ultra-light howitzers, light tanks and helicopters to be deployed along the LAC, said sources. The Army and IAF plan to deploy ballistic and cruise missile units in the Northeast and have activated several helipads and airfields in the sector.

The government has cleared the formation of the new corps just a few days before India and China are expected to discuss the border defence cooperation agreement.
ok is this in addition to 2 lakh mountain forces that was proposed earlier.????
 

sayareakd

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

good news but induct more force multiplier............. Plus take care of infrastructure near the border.
 

Ray

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

NEWS FLASHGovt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

What happened to the GoI all of a sudden......:scared2:

Is this the present GoI.....
It is all very well, but let the Govt get the equipment to kit and replenish the forces that we already have and then talk.

Manpower raising is the easiest input for raising a Corps. What about the equipment?

Has the Govt got money?

They have still not been able to replace the Mig 21s and what is worse is that the HAL quality control is so poor that substandard parts and overhaul is causing the repeated crashes and pilots losing their lives. Each loss of pilot also mean loss in expertise and loss to the Govt in that all that money to train the pilot to that level of expertise thus goes down the drain!
 
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Bhadra

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

It is all very well, but let the Govt get the equipment to kit and replenish the forces that we already have and then talk.

Manpower raising is the easiest input for raising a Corps. What about the equipment?

Has the Govt got money?

They have still not been able to replace the Mig 21s and what is worse is that the HAL quality control is so poor that substandard parts and overhaul is causing the repeated crashes and pilots losing their lives. Each loss of pilot also mean loss in expertise and loss to the Govt in that all that money to train the pilot to that level of expertise thus goes down the drain!


You mean you are against raising of this corps !! Looks like !!
 

Bhadra

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

Indian Borders

India 14,103.1 9 7

Afghanistan:[49] 106 km
Bangladesh (199):[19] 4,053 km
Bhutan: 605 km
Burma: 1,463 km
People's Republic of China (3): 3,380 km
Nepal: 1,690 km
Pakistan : 2,912 km
Sri Lanka: 0.1 km[50]


So eastern Command deals with India's borders with Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Myanmar and most importantly with China. As against the the nine corps deployed by India in the west, there are only three corps deployed in the East. India's border with Pakistan is merely 2,912 km out of 14,103 Km. The symmetry of the forces somehow is not justified.

Bangladesh, Bhutan, Nepal and Myanmar are no enemies but India does not have a guarantee of their non aggression. As it is the countries develop capabilities as per existing realities and needs. The nine corps deployed against Pakistan will take ages to reach the Khonsa and Nuasa in Tirap Changlang on India Myanmar Borders if need be. So these can not be counted for requirements in the East. Eastern part of India needs to boost up military numerical strength with resources that we have.
 

Dinesh_Kumar

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This thing about Tanks and COBRA got me thinking........

See, from long time , we have had 6-7 Divisions on China Border - this is exclusive to Eastern Command.
Additionally,

> Northern Command (also in Ladakh) is largest in IA, and has about 150,000 troops in China facing side ("Largest Corps in World" quoting Ravi Rekye from Orbat.com)

> Associated paramilitaries like SSB, Assam Rifles, ITBP, etc. contribute more.

> JJ Singh started Arunachal Scouts, Ladakh Scouts turned into Regiment, also contributed to increasing numbers.

From above, there is no shortage of manpower. Also, in reports in media, no info about troop shortage in China facing side, in fact, China seems to have less people there. Why we need more is a question to be asked...

I, for one, am definitely expecting firefight here in near future, going by Dragon's land grabbing.

Better preparations rather than blind increase of numbers seems to be the key:


> Mountain Equipment: Ropes/Artic Gear / Weather proof matches / Torches / Stoves / Compass sets / Ice Axes, etc.can be improved.Also, small air dropped / Pack mounted bulldozer to be made available, going by recent videos of PLA activities in Tibet.

> Firepower:SAW machine Guns / RPGs and Sniper/DMRs can be increased

> Reconnaissance: Hand UAVs for "Over the Hill" missions - Squad Use, those BEL Software Radios we keep reading about, cheap aerostat type AWACS / Command Post.

> 3D Radars, BFS Radars, Arty Locating and Mortar types

> Artillery + Artillery + more Artillery.

> Obviously Frontier infrastructure + Road/rail lines

If all above are available at full levels, then maybe more numbers not needed.

You are right about the acclamatisation factor. Currently, it takes from 2 weeks to as much as 4 to acclamatise the troops to the higher altitude. But DRDO has been saying that they are researching ways of bringing this down to 5 days.

When I said flat area fit for armoured thrust, I did not mean the Arunachal Pradesh region. The Sikkim China border (the finger area) is one of the vey few regions where the IA can launch an armored thrust, and also has tactical advantage. Infact there is already a regiment of T-72 based there, confirming my viewpoint.
The IA wouldn't place tanks there if the terrain was unfit fot armored thrusts.

Indian tanks move in Sikkim after Chinese activities : Headlines Today Top Stories, News - India Today
T-72 tanks moved to remote Sikkim area after China tests Indian defences

The concept of COBRA ops is very different to that of regular armies fighting assault/defence operations. These are high intensity operarions and consist of brigade or larger number of troops. Without sustained support or supplies, these formations will be decimated, regardless of how skilled they are. Mixing this with anti Naxal ops will not be prudent, given the size and capability of the enemy.
 

nirranj

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

Well frankly speaking, most of the above things looks out of fiction than fact.:p
no offense
I am not giving You detailed battle field strategy. I am giving you a counter strategy. Wars are fought in battle fields, but battle fields are determined by the overall strategy and objective out of the war. If a aggressive China can choose the battle field of their choice, We too can. We can withdraw from where we can, Defend where we want to and Attack where we like to. only thing is first we should have the objective which transforms into a strategy.

Never underestimate your enemy, PN is quite large with massive sub fleet do consider that too. In case of air war, india's airforce first priority would be safe guarding its fronts but india can use Tibet as flash point or as trump card. and pakistan can be dealt with its aggression by offensive from baluchistan but this is quite a difficult task as indian navy will have to neutralize pak navy much quickly, so most likely area for india is western boder only, this is where most of pak industry and people live, take fight to them and they will panic first, but in current time cannot take fight to china its defence industry is established but not ours for which we need to work for their confinement.
I never used the word that IN is superior to PN. But I am asking IN to do whatever it is necessary to Completely destroy PN. This is the Role for IN to play initially. Also I didn't say that IA should only defend against the Pakistan Army in the western sector. IA is divided into two, one to face Pak and the other to face China in a two front war. Like we did in 1965, If we can choose our battlefield in countering Pakistan's advance. But here the IN's role will be crucial. If we can close off the Chinese entry into Indian ocean, we can concentrate much of IN's strength in the western sector. Yes they have submarines in good numbers, But why do we have Multi role frigates and Corvettes?? why are we buying LRMR aircrafts?? Why do we have Satellites in the space?? Why do we have Carriers??

On IAF, I have mentioned their primary role is to achieve air superiority within our own Airspace. If the enemy air force cannot operate in our airspace, that is a major factor in the war. RAF's ability to achieve superiority in battle of Britain was the crucial part in the WWii. This wil deal a blow to the enemy morale.

Frankly china would be risking much more than india if it acts as aggressor, we have to win war on diplomacy also by winning world support.
I realy liked the way we approached japan as soon as we recently had issues with china.
Yes, That is why I say the Safety of Indian North East is in East China sea and Afghanistan. Diplomacy. This doesn't means we should leave NE frontier defenses ill equipped and Ill prepared. We have to be first self reliant in countering China or any other aggressor. But we should forge Alliances and develop access points for our Military throughout the world. These will prove force multipliers in a war.


Against factories near front...try to get logic as if we try and bomb their industry they will too, same happened with germany in WW2, russia survived as it moved its factories beyond Ural's.
I am not asking for hi tech factories. WE need some ammo factories which will help us to produce the necessary stock in peace time. It will serve a point, that we are here to stay in the NE and NE is a integral part of India. We can bring a message to the citizens in NE that, India is determined to save them at any cost. Also you cannot be dependent on roads to bring in nuts and bolts. they should be available locally. This will also help the region develop economically.

This is good one, but only one link can go through Assam and rest of india to arunachal, next link can be from Sikkim via bhutan.
If via Sikkim and Bhutan is the second access, we should also have a third access via Chittagong and fourth via Myanmar.

Yes we cannot trust these to nations blindly, but we can use these access points If we have a good relationship with them. This si where we have to start our efforts into. Turning these neighbors into trusted partners.

Fine, but we can have fuel dumps in underground bunkers etc as oil fields might be targeted by chinese during first fews days itself.
Yes they will target our Assets. But even in peace time we should procure oil from Assam fields. this again will reduce the need to transport fuel from mainland. We can use the available loistics for transporting other required elements. Remember Govt has laid a cap on the petrol usage by the Armed forces, Fuel transported from Mainland will become costly. We should store as much amount of fuel we can in the ways you said..

This we need quickly and of quite importance
:thumb:
.
Which tank. if its T-90, we will remain dependent on russian and no external power can be trusted, many don't know that soviets back stabbed india in 65 war. they did came for help in 71 though.
What is our requirement from the mechanized forces?? That will determine which tank. We should look beyond Russia, I agree. We should produce Arjuns in mass quantities. We can use a new Tank assembly plant in west (in Rajastan or MP) to produce Arjun.

in 10-20 years we might not match PN, we have to work on complete containment than act as aggressor. They have numbers in their favor and have much larger sub strength.
What is the Project 75 and 75I are for?? And what do the SSBN's do?? Yes we dont have parity with their Sub force's technical superiority. But we still can find ways to overcome the threat posed by PN submarines. I don't think they will get more numbers in future too, considering their Economic condition.

This would be great, but can't say that we can trust Bangladesh in war against chinese as they currently use most of equipment of chinese origin.
If we cannot make friends with a neighbor who share common language and culture?? (Pakistan is a exception) what are we going to do?? We should bring them out of the Chinese sphere of influence. We can do this in many ways. recently they recognized Indira Gandhi for her role in Bangladesh liberation war. We have to capitalize these things.

If we want it quickly, need it from israel or US.
Import is always an option.

10) Have a Stronger presence in the Andamans.



Completely agree
:scared2:

Nope, its same as pakistan said in 71, defence of east pakistan is in west pakistan. for me defence of india's north is in india's north.
Agree, But I didn't say that we should completely ignore our defenses in NE. we should have a formidable presence in NE. At the same time we should have allies and Partners who we can look for support in crucial times. Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Philippines and Singapore will make great friends and Allies.
 

Ray

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Re: Govt clears posting of 40,000 soldiers along China border

You mean you are against raising of this corps !! Looks like !!
No, I am not against it.

All I am saying is the Govt must put the money where its mouth is.

They keep announcing so many things, but nothing is ever done and the money is always in short supply.

This Corps had been announced quite sometime back and nothing has happened so far.

All that has happened is the CCS has 'given the nod' now.

Therefore, it should have been announced, if indeed it required to be done, only after the nod and not before and spook China to get more aggressive in getting its own military infrastructure more robust, whilst India dithered for the 'nod'.

It will cost Rs 64,000 crore and spread over the next seven years.


What about the two other independent infantry brigades and two independent armoured brigades to plug its operational gaps along the entire Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China. If this is approved it would result in a total financial outlay of over Rs 81,000 crore during the 12th Plan (2012-17) period.


Then there was all this talk of 155m Ultra Light Mountain howitzers that was to be deployed in the mountains?


The problem is that all this is hyped and then it hangs fire to implement. It makes the adversary jittery and since they have the means, which we don't have, they activate themselves and get their act together while we remain hanging with hollow war cries!

And then it become a nightmare in the crazy catch up activities that seem to have no cohesive and cogently well thought out approach. The military has the plan, but the Govt does not have the will or money, but is high on populist announcement that they do not follow up, leaving the military holding the can.



Take the case of China in Tibet.

By the time India woke up in the late 90s to China's modern infrastructure across the LAC, as well as rapidly modernizing military, it was too late to even play a catch-up game. Now, India is trying to build several strategic road links to the border, and to create a formidable military capability that can match up with the Chinese side. Many observers have said that it would take India several years before there is any parity with the Chinese PLA along the border.

Even as India plays the catch-up game, China has created aggressive military and infrastructure capabilities. It has at least five fully-operational airbases, an extensive rail network and over 58,000-km of roads along the Indian border. This would allow China to move over 30 divisions — each with over 15,000 soldiers — to the LAC, outnumbering Indian forces by at least 3:1 there. China has deployed 13 border defence regiments with around 300,000 PLA troops close to Indian border.

Therefore, all I am saying is get the act together first and then make the announcement, if indeed it is required. China has without publicity got its act together in Tibet and has caught us by surprise and has advanced so ahead that this catch up game is getting really difficult.

Further, all this flurry of schemes, that are way beyond the depleted and moribund exchequer coming out just before the election makes me sceptical so much so I feel it is another hollow war cry that will fade once the 'effect' for which it is aimed i.e. the election gets over.

I cannot believe that with a cash strapped economy, we can fund the Food Security, MNERGA, Direct Cash Transfer and all the other populist schemes planned and already in hand and on top of it, raising a Corps, even if not the Independent Infantry and Armoured Brigades for the LAC. In the end, when the Govt will have to cut its coat as per the cloth, who will get the axe and suffer? The military! And having spooked China, she will add greater offensive capability in Tibet and we will never be able to catch up!

Politics is at play over reality and prudence!

And yet there is no doubt we should have the adequate strength and equipment to face a two front war and also take the war into the enemy's territory.

But that requires planning to include getting the kitty ready to launch the scheme pronto!

Have the regimental centres increased the recruitment?

Have the Officer Training Academies increased their intake?

IF not, who will staff the units that will be composed of this Corps?

Has it been calculated as to how much more money would be required in pay and allowance of this increment to include cost for building the infrastructure to billet them and feed and clothe them?

Jingoism is good, pragmatism is better!
 
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Blackwater

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pakistani media has gone mad.

they start the news.

""bagal me churi muh me ram ram"" India the peace loving country is spending 65000 crore to make new strike core

they r showing India is launching offensive on pakistan:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 

nirranj

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pakistani media has gone mad.

they start the news.

""bagal me churi muh me ram ram"" India the peace loving country is spending 65000 crore to make new strike core

they r showing India is launching offensive on pakistan:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Pakistan Sneezes when We buy Air conditioner!!!

Next they will say India Indian households are buying knives to stab Pakistanis :laugh::rofl:
 

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