Government outlay for defence in military budget dashes hopes for military modernisation

Discussion in 'Defence & Strategic Issues' started by ashdoc, Feb 1, 2018.

  1. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    Inspite of all it's nationalistic talk , the government has not done much to allocate money for defence modernisation.

    One really misses Rajiv Gandhi , who was the only prime minister to have really allocated more than 3 percent of the GDP for defence and was really interested in making India a major military power . Rest have paid only lip service to military modernisation and nothing else .

    https://m.timesofindia.com/india/bu...ium=social&utm_campaign=TOI&utm_content=om-bm
     
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  3. ashdoc

    ashdoc Senior Member Senior Member

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    Ever since bofors scandal, very few 155 mm guns have been bought for army. That is in last thirty years . Rafale jets---only 36 instead of the planned 126 + 56 .

    Of course, only the BJP government is not to blame for this . But it's claim to nationalism is diluted because of this . Later congress governments after Rajiv Gandhi also reduced defence expenditure but at least they were not claiming to be nationalists.

    Every year the defence budget disappoints and I remember Rajiv Gandhi. This has been happening for nearly 30 years. And I don't even have a habit of drinking to forget my sorrows....sigh...
     
  4. laughingbuddha

    laughingbuddha Regular Member

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    If the nationalists can't/won't do it, who will?
    Ok, so they say that we have to cut the import bill and make/ buy Indian but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Meanwhile, our forces have an equipment crunch.
     
  5. Poseidon

    Poseidon Senior Member Senior Member

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    Last year defence capital budget was 86,400 crore, this year it is 99,900 crore.
    That is an Increase of over 15%.
     
  6. Akshay_Fenix

    Akshay_Fenix Member Senior Member

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    Whats the point of 3% gdp defence budget, when most of the money is returned back at the end of the year.

    Or are you one of those guys that just likes to read the headlines.

    Rs 4 lakh crore worth defence procurement cleared by govt in 3 years

    He said out of the total deals cleared, 96 cases involving Rs 2.46 lakh crore are under the 'Buy (Indian)' 'Buy & Make (Indian)' and 'Make' categories. Listing initiatives for defence indegenisation


    Here are some headlines for you.

    https://www.deccanchronicle.com/bus...e-procurement-cleared-by-govt-in-3-years.html
     
  7. binayak95

    binayak95 Senior Member Senior Member

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    Atleast, the last budget's defence outlay was fully utilised; no funds were returned. This is a first in quite a long number of years. A 15% increase in capital acquisition fund is no joke. Especially in an election year.
     
  8. sthf

    sthf Senior Member Senior Member

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    Rajiv Gandhi got grabbed by his balls when Ronnie Reagan initiated Operation Cyclone. US directly gave Porkis ~$4.5 billion in military aid, that is $10 billions today. To put this into perspective, this amount is more than what Pakis spent themselves for the past 10 years in capital expenditure and this is just the US.

    So no, Rajiv Gandhi didn't do anything out of the goodness of his own heart. He got backed into the corner and he responded like any leader who didn't want to lose the next war did.

    A 15% increase in CAPEX is a substantial one unless I slept through the time when India discovered new massive oil fields and gold mines and can now buy whatever it wants.
     
  9. nongaddarliberal

    nongaddarliberal Senior Member Senior Member

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    Again, one cannot compare defence budget as a percentage of GDP with western countries, because our tax to GDP ratio itself is much lower. Ours is 15%, whereas theirs are 35% on average. So a more appropriate measure would be to see what percent of total government expenditure goes to defence. And in that regard India spends a decent amount. We cannot start spending 25-30% of budget on defence, because we still have a LOT to do in education, healthcare and infrastructure.

    In fact, even with our low tax to GDP ratio, we have a higher percentage defence spending than many European countries.
     
  10. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    That's outdated info bro, in the last 2 years the mil hasn't returned ANY unspent CAPEX to the Fin Min- Parrikar put the fear of god into them by saying "either use it or lose it".
     
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  11. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    The key point is whether the sums allocated for CAPEX are enough to address the key needs for the coming year?

    What major purchases are planned and how long will they take to be inducted into the system?
     
  12. sthf

    sthf Senior Member Senior Member

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    "Needs", maybe, "Wants" certainly not because IAF wants 189 Rafales and 144 FGFA , IN wants conventional submarines that costs nearly $1.5 billion each and IA is unsure of what it wants but is certain that it wants tanks that should NOT weigh more than 50 tons, +-15% (because that is how IA rolls).

    You can double the budget next year and the services will claim it to be insufficient because "two front war".
     
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  13. Akshay_Fenix

    Akshay_Fenix Member Senior Member

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    Maake it to 3% of gdp and our dalals will just go on an import spree, ditching our indigenous products.

    This budget will force the Armed forces to for home made products or they could just wait for 2019 ( since peeps are ready to kick this gov out)..
     
  14. mayfair

    mayfair Elite Member Elite Member

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    I want to have a house on Prthviraj road and drive a Bentley, but what I need would be amply fulfilled by a well designed 2/3BHK reasonably affordable house in Dwarka, not far from the Metro station and perhaps a Baleno.
     
  15. sthf

    sthf Senior Member Senior Member

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    Exactly, this is what reasonable minds think and we know that MOD is one of the last places where you can find one.

    Wait for a couple of years and you are looking at the "need" for exoskeletons with shoulder mounted lasers.

    To answer your primary question, services want more than the total current budget of India within the next five years.
    ==============================

    Did anyone find the defence R&D budget for 2018? I tried but couldn't.
     
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  16. abingdonboy

    abingdonboy Senior Member Senior Member

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    There will never be enough CAPEX as the babudom, govt and services between them see to it that procurements are a painful and slow process drawn out for as long as possible with every possible twist and turn along the way.

    List is long and growing day by day:

    C295
    AAR
    MCMV
    Shallow water ASW vessels
    MRCBF
    Minesweepers
    NMRH
    NUH
    MGS
    Small arms (assualt rifles, sniper rifles, carbines etc)
    SSKs
    MMA
    LRMPA (P-8I, follow on)
    C-17 (follow on)
    FICV
    ATGMs
    UAVs (micro, MALE, HALE)
    Rafale (follow on)


    The list above easily ammounts to >$200bn USD and it is the deals that have NOT been signed but there is an open requirement for, ongoing Indian projects like SSN, SSBN LUH, LCH, IMRH, QRSAM, Nirbhay etc that still need funding haven't in addition to the above been included. And this is a very rough list that lists only the top most "headline grabbers", there are masses of "less sexy" equipment that will be needed also

    Over the next 7 years CAPEX needs will be close to $500bn just to fund the above, hard to see that being granted with the defence spending actually contracting each year vis a vis GDP.



    This is sadly true, one of the (few) things to cheer about under NDA has been the huge ramp up in Made in India defence equipment purchases (LCA, LCH, AKASH, QRSAM etc), give the military more and surely FOREX is going to fly out of the door faster than you can blink.

    Not really sure what the solution to this is, DPP-2016 has provision to favour "IDDM" (Indian designed devloped and made) but DPP-2016 has gone absolutely NOWHERE, almost no new deals have been launched or signed under NDA, almost all are carried over from UPA era.
     
  17. tharun

    tharun Patriot Senior Member

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    Before everyone going gaga over defense budget we need to understand that our tax collection is 16+% to gdp ratio when compared to USA 25%.
    We need to keep our deficit in control otherwise we will end up like greece with debt.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Armand2REP

    Armand2REP CHINI EXPERT Veteran Member

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    Or you could raise tarrifs like China, actually raise tarrifs on China for illegal dumping and counterfeit goods.
     
  19. Mikesingh

    Mikesingh Senior Member Senior Member

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    If all those above 20 and below 80 pay Rs 100 each one time for the financial year 2018-19 for a 'defence pool' we could end up with a whopping Rs 5000 crores, enough to buy 12 more Rafales! Or 20 SU-30s!! :biggrin2:

    Just saying.
     
  20. tharun

    tharun Patriot Senior Member

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    We already increased the customs duty on import of electronic items.
    To increase the tax to gdp ratio we need to get rid of subsidies and inefficiencies in the govt.
     
  21. tharun

    tharun Patriot Senior Member

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    I like your idea.I'm ready to give 1000 rs.
    How about 100/- per month?
     
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