German official blames China for Somalia's famine

[thinktwicegood]

You Indian do not have the guts to admit that indian companies together with USA should be responsible for the famine in Ethiopia if """Ray""" believes that Land investments from foreigners are the main reason for famine

Because, you know, indian companies with wallstreet fat cats are the biggest foreign land investors in Ethiopia. Just check the Ethiopia Land Investment Report (Page 22 and 23) by USA based thinktank Oakland Institute from the following link

Understanding Land Investment Deals in Africa: Ethiopia | oaklandinstitute.org


You can also check the interview from German National broadcasting company Deutsche Welle's website (chinese version). This interview was in Chinese. You can translate it into English using google or Bing. The link is as follows:


中国是否为要为非洲之角的饥荒负责? | 新闻报道 | Deutsche Welle | 2011.07.28

 

[no smoking]

It is an inherently weak and pessimistic mentality to think that you cannot develop without suppreessing others. While this is not the first and last act of this kind in the world history; to try justify it in your manner is even more painful. Sad to know you have such mindset and no thanks we don't want to join you in this bath of tyranny. Don't you dare put me down at your level. We have our own path and will walk it as always have.

Regards,
Virendra

I don't think using "suppressing" is the right word to discribe China's action in africa. They don't suppress these africans, they used these african's weakness as every western country is doing. You can call it immoral: after China didn't point a gun to their head. We paid a higher price for everything we get than any western country.

I didn't put you at our level because you are still on the lower level. The fact is inidan manufacturing scale and level is still far behind.
Let's see what india will do in next 20 years to satisfy your demand.

 

[asianobserve]

No! It's the fault of the U.S.A.! Actually, all problems happeneing around the World now are US' fault...

 

[Ray]

chinese buy resources from africa with money while westerners from EU bomb africa with bombers.......the difference to some extent is just as simple as that.

Like China does in Zimbabwe and Sudan?

By resources with money?

Or buy resources with money selling first Chinese weapons so that they can kill each other, even though there is a UN embargo?

Ship with weapons for Zimbabwe blocked

The An Yue Jiang, anchored off Durban, South Africa, has been blocked from unloading weapons destined for Zimbabwe.

Ship with Zimbabwe weapons blocked - World news - Africa - Zimbabwe - msnbc.com

China's Arms Sales to Sudan

China's Arms Sales to Sudan

Fact Sheet

In the run up to the Olympics, China is engaging in a major
public relations campaign to downplay its arms sales to Sudan,
to belittle the extent of its influence with Khartoum, and to claim
credit for playing a positive role in bringing security to Darfur. But
the facts of China's military support for the government of Sudan
tell a different story.

Sudan's military expenditures have risen dramatically since 1997,
the year of its first oil exports.i

Much of the money for this shopping spree for weapons came
from profits made from oil exports to China. And much of the
money has gone directly back to China, for purchases of small
arms and other military equipment by Sudan.

Small Arms Sales

"Everyone knows that the weapons in Darfur come from different sources "¦ But I can say we have nothing to do with that."
—Li Chengwen, Chinese Ambassador to Sudan, September 2007ii

Sudan's purchases of small arms, small arms parts, and ammunition have risen dramatically since 1999. By 2005, Sudan's small arms imports had risen to more than 680 times their 1999 levels. iii
From 2003 to 2006, the period covering the worst abuses by Sudanese government forces in Darfur, China sold over $55 million worth of small arms to Khartoum.

Since 2004, the year in which the United Nations Security Council imposed an embargo on arms transfers to Darfur, China has been the near-exclusive provider of small arms to Khartoum, supplying approximately 90 percent of Sudan's small arms purchases each year.iv
Observers on the ground in Darfur have reported seeing Chinese weaponry, including grenade launchers and ammunition for assault rifles and heavy machine guns.v

Aircraft and Heavy Weapons

"Images from the parade have revealed to the world that the Sudanese army resembles a second Chinese Liberation Army."
—A defense analyst describing a military parade celebrating Sudan's 52nd Independence Day in 2007vi

In 2003, China sold up to 20 A-5C Fantan fighter-bombers, capable of delivering 4,000 pounds of bombs in a single strike, to Sudan.vii

In 2005, the Chinese company Dongfeng exported more than two hundred military trucks to Sudan. New trucks of a similar type were seen later that year on a Sudanese air force base in Darfur,viii and military trucks have been used to transport Sudanese soldiers to
sites where civilians have been attacked.ix

In 2006, Sudan received six K-8 advanced trainer aircraft, which can be fitted for ground attack combat, from China. x

In 2007, television footage from a military parade celebrating Sudan's 52nd Independence Day showed that Sudan had late-model battle tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, and military trainers from China.xi

Sudan is said to be currently in negotiations with China for the purchase of 12 Chinese FC1 Fighter aircraft.xii
http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/080311-cah-arms-sales-fact-sheet.pdf

 

[Ray]

China does not 'suppress' Africans in Africa.

They merely overwhelm the Africans and then run them out of business through sharp Chinese business methods.

Technically, the Chinese cannot be faulted because after all in business one has to undercut others to take over and then monopolise.

It is easy in Africa since the Africans are very laid back people who are not very ambitious. However, now that they find that the Chinese are getting affluent and they are not being able to compete with the Chinese, it is obvious that the Africans will get angry with the Chinese.

The African countries are now (some of them) cutting down on entry permit for Chinese.

 

[kickok1975]

African countries probably don't have many choice: Take it or leave it, regardless from Chinese, Indian or westerners. If their government and people are smart enough, they should focus on short term pain long term gain to develop the sub-Africa continent to a better place. Otherwise the world is a place where jungle rule is played where if not this predator, other predator will eat them alive. Very few people including Indian will have true sympathy toward African people. Instead their resentments toward Chinese are mainly originated from envy, hate due to the fact there is less meat left for them to eat.

 

[tony4562]

Blaming China for Africa's poverty? Is there anything more ridiculous than this? India alone accounts for 40% of the world's absolute poor, and 40% of indian children are undernourished, is China also responsible for that?

 

[debasree]

No, you get them wrong. They never thought that is right either. They regard it as neccessary evil: develop themselves at the cost of others. After generations, people will forget it. That is the lessons they learned from west.

And I am sure india would join them very soon.

why name india ,u moron.

 

[Ray]

African countries probably don't have many choice: Take it or leave it, regardless from Chinese, Indian or westerners. If their government and people are smart enough, they should focus on short term pain long term gain to develop the sub-Africa continent to a better place. Otherwise the world is a place where jungle rule is played where if not this predator, other predator will eat them alive. Very few people including Indian will have true sympathy toward African people. Instead their resentments toward Chinese are mainly originated from envy, hate due to the fact there is less meat left for them to eat.

It is not envy that generates hate.

It is when one, in his own country, is driven into poverty because one is driven into bankruptcy by foreigners (like the enterprising Chinese) by undercutting, even if the product is shoddy.

I am sure the Chinese would not find it delightful, if foreigners took over their industry and the Chinese found that they cannot compete with them in China itself and were going bankrupt and unemployed!

The blame is not entirely of the Chinese. It is more so on the African govts, who are corrupt and greedy to build up their personal wealth!

Blaming China for Africa's poverty? Is there anything more ridiculous than this? India alone accounts for 40% of the world's absolute poor, and 40% of indian children are undernourished, is China also responsible for that?

Your post is disingenuous and indicates a disconnect with intelligence and logic.

How can China be responsible with India's poverty? Is China participating in Indian foodgrain, vegetable production or animal husbandry? But yes, cheap, though shoddy stuff of China is, like in Africa, contributing to poverty as such stuff is encroaching on Indian petty manufacturers.

In Africa, China is not only flooding the African market with cheap and shoddy products (as the video indicates), but also populating Africa with Chinese and driving the local industry into bankruptcy. China is also into agriculture that will be taken to China to feed the teeming millions at the cost of the Africans. Therefore, China is contributing to Africa's poverty and hunger.

 

[asianobserve]

Blaming China for Africa's poverty? Is there anything more ridiculous than this? India alone accounts for 40% of the world's absolute poor, and 40% of indian children are undernourished, is China also responsible for that?

Of course NOT! it is US' fault.

 

[amoy]

Of course NOT! it is US' fault.

I love your sarcasm. Blame-others is easier than introspection. Typical of Somalia - After so many years of 'independence' what has it achieved? Endless civil wars btwn different warlords, tribes or religions. Now Somolian pirates have made this country known worldwide, and given Chinese navy a good motive to cruise Indian Ocean (*_*) as a would-be bluewater navy.

Now Chinese are found to be new scapegoats for Somolia's plight. But what if Chinese exploiters pull out? Would that make Somolian life any better?

Driving the African industry into bankruptcy? or 'encroaching on Indian petty manufacturers'? - does Africa (precisely Somalia) have an 'industry'? so what's the root cause of incompetitiveness of such 'industries'? Why not simply shut India's door off outside competition? Would it be in the longterm good of Somalia or India?

 

[Syd]

I find this whole thread hilarious. The famine in Somaila is due to lack of rain!

How does Chinese or Indians or even Americans doing land deals in Ethiopia cause famine in Somalia?

I was born in Nairobi, Kenya (neighbouring Somalia and Ethiopia) and lived there until I was seventeen. In that time there were two huge famines affecting these three countries that I recall. The main benefactor sending famine relief was the USA. I am not a fan of the US but give credit where it is due. The African politicians, of course, got rich by selling the food relief to their starving countrymen!

Since I left Africa some forty five years ago there have been famines about every seven or eight years. Besides the unreliable rainfall, the other driver of these famines is sheer population pressure. Most Kenyan and Somali families are large - seven or eigh children is average. The population of Kenya was 6.5 million when I left; it is now about 40 million.

Somalia has always been semidesert as is the NW of Kenya (mainly populated by Somali speakers) and the SW province of Ethiopia, Ogaden - also populated by Somalis. However the Somalis continue th have huge families and trust that Allah will provide.

By the way Ray, your claim that Indians were well integrated with the host Africans is incorrect. Indians lived very separate lives from the Africans and totally dominated the economy. You may recall the expulsion of Asians (ie Indians and Pakistanis) from Uganda in 1972.

Just in case you are not aware I am of Indian descent.

 

[no smoking]

why name india ,u moron.

Because with the development of india, in next 2 decades india will face the same problem as China today: hugh growth in demand of resources, market and employement.

So, tell me how india is going to answer these, u moron!

 

[Armand2REP]

It will be interesting to see how long these starving African countries will let China export their food. It WILL come to breaking point one of these days.

 

[nimo_cn]

Isn't it Angela Merkel of Germany, not Hilary ?

You are right, I just checked, it was Angela Merkel, chancellor of Germany, should she also be counted as a German official?

Isn't it ironical? When Indians are celebrating some ridiculous accusation agaisnt China by Germans, they must forget the same Germans made fun of them by accusing them of causing the rise of food price by having three meals a day.

Surely the German chancellor believed Indians are only allowed to have two, or one, or no meal each day, and it was a crime for Indians to have three meal a day. But I didn't see any Indians talking about this before, does that mean most of you guys agree with Angela Merkel on this?

Maybe I should write a report with a title like "German official blames India for causing the rise of food price by having the extra third meal".

 

[tony4562]

Because with the development of india, in next 2 decades india will face the same problem as China today: hugh growth in demand of resources, market and employement.

So, tell me how india is going to answer these, u moron!

Because India in reality is poorer than most of sub-sahara Africa, a fact the jingoists here rarely want to talk about. If one could link Africa's poverty and famine with China, he/she could probably link the huge mess that is India today with China as well.

 

[huaxia rox]

Like China does in Zimbabwe and Sudan?

By resources with money?

Or buy resources with money selling first Chinese weapons so that they can kill each other, even though there is a UN embargo?

ur piece of info is neither here nor there....when china sold weapons and when was the embargo???and what embargo r u talking about??specificlly...........

china would not force any1 to buy our goods nor weapons....they pay the money they get the things.....if they dont like chinese they can ask us to fuk off....tehy can not buy things from china.....we dont have problems with that and if they want to sell things to PRC we have money so we buy..........we would not be like westerner (colonizers)......getting and then staying in a nation by guns and warships......nor would we sink some african fishing boats by force..........

 

[Armand2REP]

ur piece of info is neither here nor there....when china sold weapons and when was the embargo???and what embargo r u talking about??specificlly...........

The UN arms embargo on Sudan and Zimbabwe... are you daft?

 

[huaxia rox]

Because India in reality is poorer than most of sub-sahara Africa, a fact the jingoists here rarely want to talk about. If one could link Africa's poverty and famine with China, he/she could probably link the huge mess that is India today with China as well.

what actually makes me ponder is this....why india is that poor.......actually its very interesing coz if most of the things r normal....india should be a much more rich and advanced nation than current PRC that suffered some major setbacks before 1980s. next 3 r some of the main reasons i reckon.

1 indians failed to predict the disastrous consequences of invading kashmir which resulted in the unstable situations in india it self with hindus and muslims having barely no reasons to get along very well and the unstable situations in the whole sub continent that absord indian attentions from building its economy.

2 poor people like naxal supporters and lower caste people cant get fair treatments from the nation so many of them chose to go against india unfortuately via unpeaceful means by some.

3 the westerners (UK rulers) exploited so much from india before 1947 and indians were left so little so that they had a bad start...which i guess is 1 of the most important reasons to the poverty of current india.

but what i again failed to understand is why indians as the victims of wester colonizers whould jump in the bandwagon to denounce PRC that has been constantly adverse to western colonization policy and supporting africans to seek their independencies and doing business with africans that would be benificial to both sides.......which of coz would be the eyesore of some of the westerners that can no longer invade africa like what they did in the 20th centry........

 

[huaxia rox]

The UN arms embargo on Sudan and Zimbabwe... are you daft?

did u drink too much? UN arms embargo on Zimbabwe???u made that happen??

in terms of sudan. there were weapons sold before the embago (so i raise the question of WHEN)and some china made weapons were even not sold by PRC....who knows who did that?