Gaddafi's Rein of Terror

pmaitra

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Sarko came and Medvedev stopped, you figure it out...

French President Sarkozy Brokers Peace Talks Between Georgia - YouTube

We are not responsible for the retard's actions. We just lay down the peace.

This thread has nothing to do with Russian soldiers and you don't even know one tenth what I know about them. How many Russian soldiers or ex-soldiers do you personally know? Stay on topic or go to the Russian thread. :laugh:
Sarko timed it well. Once Russian military objectives were met and Russia declared end of hostilities, Sarko arrived so that he does not look like a fool. Yet, when the hostilities were on, just look at the statements emanating from Paris. Sarko and most of NATO were looking like helpless fools, with the exception of Germany and Italy, the two remaining sensible European countries IMHO. I must say, though, Bush looked like the biggest fool, Miliband looked like a close second and Sarko was just a little closer to sanity.

Russian military objectives (blue) and helpless protestations from the West (red), see below:
Russian intervention

2008 August - Tensions between Georgia and Russia escalate into a full-blown military conflict after Georgia tries to retake South Ossetia by force after a series of lower-level clashes with Russian-backed rebels.

Russia launches a counter-attack, ejecting Georgian troops from both South Ossetia and Abkhazia. After more than a week of hostilities, the two sides sign a French-brokered peace agreement, but Russia subsequently recognises the two breakaway regions as independent states - a move that draws protests from Georgia and the West.

Russia says it will keep a military presence in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/country_profiles/1102575.stm
I think we should open a thread named, 'Bullying of weaker countries by NATO.'
 
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Tronic

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Sarko came and Medvedev stopped, you figure it out...

French President Sarkozy Brokers Peace Talks Between Georgia - YouTube

We are not responsible for the retard's actions. We just lay down the peace.
Russia is not a threat to France but a dependent on our technology. We already stopped the Russian invasion of Georgia by mediating the ceasefire.
Easy with the chest thumping.

France is a tiny minnow in front of Russia.

It is amusing that you believe France can boss around Russia. 300 nukes against 11,000. I know where to put my money.

Russia is not a threat to France for the simple reason that it chooses not to be a threat to France.
 

Tronic

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Tronic Pra, hypocrisy is part of diplomacy. Kootniti!!

I know that Yusuf. I am merely pointing out that India and Indians should not be jumping onto this Western bandwagon. It is harmful to India's neighbourhood. The West is merely looking after its own interests. Saddam, Gaddafi, Mosaddegh, Nasser, Najibullah, Asad, Ismail, however they were, they were our men. Men with socialist leanings and men we need ruling the middle east.

By no means are we "natural allies" with the West. They are in bed with religious fanatics and support the right wing the world over.

Let us topple the real dictators, the Sauds, Sabahs, Sayids, Khalifas and the Thanis!

Nothing is more evil than the terrorists and the hate ideology funded and supported by the West's buddies such as these!
 
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Ray

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A medical source said Col Gaddafi's body also had a bullet in the abdomen, Reuters reported.

There has been international alarm that the deposed dictator was apparently shot by his captors in a frenzied attack after he was seized alive near Sirte.

A video circulating on the internet shows a crowd gathering around a man who claimed to have fired the fatal bullet.

This contradicts the claims of the National Transitional Council (NTC) interim leadership that Col Gaddafi was fatally wounded in crossfire while being transported to hospital.....

Post-Mortem Confirms Gaddafi Shot In Head - Yahoo!
 

Ray

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One has to watch the events as they unfold.

Maybe Libya may not turn out democratic.

Maybe the Islamists would take charge.

Maybe there will be infighting and more chaos.

Libya has many tribes.
 

Armand2REP

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What did Sarko say we will bomb Moscow?
Ceasefire or you will be sanctioned was the gist of the conversation. All this showboating of nukes never came into the picture. What Russia displayed in Georgia was an obsolete force that was bloodied by one of the weakest militaries in the world. France on the other hand ran two campaigns to overthrow dictators without a single loss of life showing what modern air power can achieve. The qualitative level of the two forces are not even in the same category.
 

W.G.Ewald

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More interesting than the video, are the comments below it.

Some "revolution" this.

Libya was a victim of Western aggression and Western imperialism.

When it comes to Bahrain, the West's bed buddy dictators, these chaps sanction armies to crush the people rising for democracy, and blame Iran for "stirring things up".

When it comes to Libya, the country is bombed day and night and tribals are armed to wage a war against the Libyan government for 10 months straight.

That is called an artificial revolution.
Anything to make Hillary laugh.
 

W.G.Ewald

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A medical source said Col Gaddafi's body also had a bullet in the abdomen, Reuters reported.

There has been international alarm that the deposed dictator was apparently shot by his captors in a frenzied attack after he was seized alive near Sirte.

A video circulating on the internet shows a crowd gathering around a man who claimed to have fired the fatal bullet.

This contradicts the claims of the National Transitional Council (NTC) interim leadership that Col Gaddafi was fatally wounded in crossfire while being transported to hospital.....

Post-Mortem Confirms Gaddafi Shot In Head - Yahoo!
Did anybody believe the NTC at any point?
 

Ray

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Did anybody believe the NTC at any point?
I am a bit confused about Libya.

Gaddafi had become a western ally.

And yet the US and NATO supported NTC, what appeared then and appears even now, as a rabble.
 
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Singh

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I am a bit confused about Libya.

Gaddafi had become a western ally.

And yet the US and NATO supported, what appeared then and appears even now, as a rabble.
Most importantly he had turned anti-Saudi and anti-AQ.
 

Ray

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Remembering The Colonel
Krishnan Srinivasan


When i arrived in Tripoli as charge d'affaires in early 1969 to open the embassy, the name of Muammar Gaddafi was completely unknown. Libya was under the mainly non-resident, benign and remote monarch King Idris, who preferred to reside in Tobruk near the Egyptian border, or in Italy. On September 1 that year, there were sounds like fireworks, and news that some young army officers had staged a bloodless coup.

After days of ambiguity, this group turned out to be a 12-member self-styled Revolutionary Command Council (RCC), comprising lieutenants and one captain, Gaddafi. The public face of the Council, who dealt with foreigners, was the putative 'thinker' of the group, Abdusalam Jalloud. The 11 promoted themselves to major and, in Gaddafi's case, colonel.

Changes were swift. Arabic replaced other languages, in street signs, shops, banks, post offices, everywhere. The American Wheelus airbase outside Tripoli was closed. Retail traders were suspected of profiteering. The large Italian community was expropriated and expelled. The cathedral was converted to a mosque. Alcohol was banned. Jalloud 'negotiated' unilaterally with oil companies and increased oil price from about $2 to $5, then considered a gigantic increase. Later, Jalloud and the Shah of Iran competed with each other to raise the price to still giddier heights.

.............Tripolitania rather than Cyranaica became the favourite province for the new regime. In foreign affairs, Gaddafi was a devoted follower of Nasser and, until Nasser died a year later, Egypt exercised some kind of moderation. Gaddafi offered to unite Libya with any Arab country that would accept this arrangement; only Sudan succumbed, temporarily. When Nasser`s restraint had gone, Gaddafi became autocratic, eccentric and megalomaniac, and the Arab League looked askance at this upstart who dared to assume a leadership position on the strength of money alone.

The Green Book of Gaddafi's 'philosophy' imitated Mao's Red Book. In came the female bodyguards, and ostentatious use of tents and camels to advertise his pastoral background. Pakistan became a favoured country, and was called upon to provide training for the air force. Gaddafi then looked to purchase influence in black Africa through cheque-book diplomacy, though this benevolence led to large promises rather than actual payments. He pioneered the premature move towards an African Union, with himself at the helm, which led to some African nations supporting him to the bitter end.

The foreign ministry in Libya was always impenetrable; under Gaddafi it was distinctly unhelpful towards any agenda other than his own. As the only Indian diplomat in Libya, i was first called to see Gaddafi to be presented a demand for a Libyan mission to visit India to study the condition of Muslims. I demurred. Gaddafi said it was only for fact-finding, there was no Libyan embassy in India, and this information could strengthen bilateral relations. New Delhi predictably refused. I returned to see Gaddafi with the rejection. He proved to be disinterested in the rebuff.

The second time i saw Gaddafi, also at his summons, was in mid-1971 when the Bangladesh war was imminent. He expressed great displeasure at India's support for the independence movement, and was dismissive of arguments about the democratic desires of the East Pakistanis. I pointed out that almost the entire international community supported the separatist movement, whereupon he argued that the Commonwealth was a military organisation out to vivisect Muslim Pakistan.

My last meeting with Gaddafi was with incoming ambassador, the late H J H Taleyarkhan. Our egregious ambassador extolled Indira Gandhi and the Congress's achievements to a completely vacant and inattentive Gaddafi.

Each of the three meetings was at the now-notorious Bab al Azzizia barracks, then a simple two-storied structure with a small compound. Security was minimal once the car was admitted into the compound. Gaddafi's office was on the first floor. His own room was small, with an army-style cot along a wall, a desk behind which he sat, a few chairs, and a banner with the Kalima-e-Tayyabah on the wall behind him. He was tall, with curly hair, gaunt face and hollow cheeks, and wore a khaki short-sleeved tunic without badges of rank. He spoke little and without any small talk. The only other person present was the interpreter.

In general, Gaddafi was interested only in Arab unity and African unity, and had little strategy or conception of international politics. As time went on, Gaddafi became harder and harder to meet. Indira Gandhi's special envoy in 1970, Moham-med Yunus, was kept waiting and not permitted access...

Indira Gandhi paid a brief visit to Libya in 1984; Gaddafi never set foot in India ............ Libya asked India for nuclear know-how, which was sidestepped, and our help to lift Security Council sanctions. The number of Indian expatriates rose from 5,000 in 1969 to 20,000 in 2011, but relations were never equable.

The wonder is that Gaddafi continued in power for so long; no one would have anticipated that in 1961. The only member of the original RCC who remained loyal to Gaddafi to the end was Abubakr Younis..........

The writer is a former foreign secretary.
Remembering The Colonel - The Times of India
Gaddafi was never pro Indian.
 

Singh

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Gaddafi was never pro Indian.
Gadaffi never paid attention to people , never looked them eye to eye probably to try and intimidate them.
Gadaffi indeed was never pro-India but then his aim was to become a African, Arab, and Islamic leader.
 

Ray

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Most importantly he had turned anti-Saudi and anti-AQ.
He was very warm with Pakistan during the Bhutto era, but he was downright rude with Nawaz Sharif who Gadaffi called a 'corrupt politician' when Sharif went to Libya. The miffed Sharif returned immediately to Pakistan and expelled the Libyan Ambassador!

That is true that Islam meant a lot to him.
 

The Messiah

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Bodies of Gaddafi supporters 'found executed' in Sirte

The bodies of 53 Gaddafi loyalists have been found at a hotel in the Libyan city of Sirte after apparently being executed, a human rights group says.

Human Rights Watch (HRW) said the victims - some of whom had their hands bound - died about a week ago.

It is the latest accusation of atrocities in Libya committed by both sides during the eight-month conflict.

Libya's new rulers have denied any involvement in abuses and have urged Libyans to forego reprisal attacks.

The discovery comes a day after jubilant crowds across the country took to the streets as the interim government declared national liberation, three days after the death of Muammar Gaddafi.

The National Transitional Council (NTC) has come under pressure to investigate how the former leader died, following accusations he had been executed by NTC troops after his capture in Sirte.

His body is in a cold storage facility in Misrata, which is open for public viewing.

'Hands bound'

The bodies were found on Sunday on the lawn of the abandoned Hotel Mahari in Sirte, which saw heavy fighting last week as NTC forces battled for control of the city.

"Some had their hands bound behind their backs when they were shot," Peter Bouckaert, emergencies director at Human Rights Watch, said in a statement.

"This requires the immediate attention of the Libyan authorities to investigate what happened and hold accountable those responsible."

It is not clear who carried out the killings.

HRW said they believed the hotel had been in the hands of anti-Gaddafi forces from Misrata before the killings, and it remained in their control until the fighting in Sirte stopped on 20 October.

On the entrance and walls of the hotel were the names of several anti-Gaddafi brigades from Misrata, HRW added.

"The evidence suggests that some of the victims were shot while being held as prisoners, when that part of Sirte was controlled by anti-Gaddafi brigades who appear to act outside the control of the NTC," Mr Bouckaert said.

Many of the victims suffered bullet wounds to the head, according to an AFP reporter who saw them.

Human Rights Watch also said the remains of 95 people had been found at the site where Gaddafi was captured. They appeared to have died that same day.

HRW, Amnesty International and other rights groups regularly document incidents of atrocities suspected of being carried out by pro- and anti-Gaddafi forces during the conflict. These include several mass killing sites found in August.

BBC News - Bodies of Gaddafi supporters 'found executed' in Sirte
 

sandeepdg

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Ceasefire or you will be sanctioned was the gist of the conversation. All this showboating of nukes never came into the picture. What Russia displayed in Georgia was an obsolete force that was bloodied by one of the weakest militaries in the world. France on the other hand ran two campaigns to overthrow dictators without a single loss of life showing what modern air power can achieve. The qualitative level of the two forces are not even in the same category.
Another absolute bullshit statement by you !

This was the six point peace plan between Russia and Georgia:


On 12 August, Russian President Medvedev said that he had ordered an end to military operations in Georgia, saying that "the operation has achieved its goal, security for peacekeepers and civilians has been restored. The aggressor was punished, suffering huge losses."[242][243] Later on the same day, he met the President-in-Office of the European Union, French President Nicolas Sarkozy, and approved a six-point peace plan. Late that night Georgian President Saakashvili agreed to the text.[244] Sarkozy's plan originally had just the first four points. Russia added the fifth and sixth points. Georgia asked for the additions in parentheses, but Russia rejected them, and Sarkozy convinced Georgia to agree to the unchanged text. On 14 August, South Ossetia President Eduard Kokoity and Abkhazia President Sergei Bagapsh signed the peace plan as well.

No recourse to the use of force.

Definitive cessation of hostilities.

Free access to humanitarian aid (addition rejected: and to allow the return of refugees).

The Armed Forces of Georgia must withdraw to their permanent positions.

The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation must withdraw to the line where they were stationed prior to the beginning of hostilities. Prior to the establishment of international mechanisms the Russian peacekeeping forces will take additional security measures. (addition rejected: six months)

An international debate on the future status of South Ossetia and Abkhazia and ways to ensure their lasting security will take place. (addition rejected: based on the decisions of the UN and the OSCE)

Russia added the last two points, while Georgian suggested quoted in the parentheses was rejected by Russia and Sarkozy agreed to Russian demands and convinced Georgia to accept to the unchanged text of the Russians.

So what happened actually was Russia secured all its objectives, trashed Georgians relentlessly, occupied two of their towns, Gori and Poti, destroyed their naval vessels and finally after intense bickering by the west, modified a plan by Sarkozy which was totally favorable to them, and had Sarkozy convince the Georgians into accepting it. Even after the ceasefire was signed, Russian troops stayed inside Georgia for 2 months.

2008 South Ossetia war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ceasefire or you will be sanctioned was the gist of the conversation.
Sanctions my ass !! You have habit of bickering unnecessarily over issuse that you don't know a damn thing about !
 
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Armand2REP

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When asked what measures the west could take against Russia in the crisis over Georgia, Bernard Kouchner told a press conference in Paris: "Sanctions are being considered."..It is the first time that France, which prides itself on good relations with Moscow, has raised the possibility of sanctions or other measures in the standoff between the west and Russia.

EU threatens sanctions against Russia | World news | guardian.co.uk
Are you ready to swallow your tongue yet? :laugh:
 

pmaitra

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Are you ready to swallow your tongue yet? :laugh:
Let it go man. Just be realistic. France has 300 nukes, Russia has 11000. France goes under the NATO umbrella, Russia goes alone. France fights from the air while Russia fights on the ground, air and sea, secures assets and confiscates NATO hardware (Hummers and Trucks). Sarkozy was the one who was travelling around and meeting people; not a bad thing rather commendable for being pro-active, but again, it was him who saved Saakashvili from further humiliation and persuaded him to accept Russian demands, knowing fully well that otherwise, there was nothing that could stop Russia from annexing Georgia if it wanted.
 

sandeepdg

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EU, Dependent on Russian Energy, Balks at Georgia War Sanctions


European Union leaders refused to impose sanctions on Russia over the invasion of Georgia, acknowledging their reliance on Russian oil and gas at a time of faltering economic growth.

EU leaders took the symbolic step yesterday of suspending talks over expanded trade ties with Russia, fearing that tougher measures would expose the energy-dependent bloc to Russian retaliation.

Russia is the 27-nation bloc's main supplier of oil and gas and third-biggest trading partner, giving it leverage at a time when the European economy threatens to tip into recession. Europe's determination to maintain business links also undercuts U.S. efforts to line up allies against the reassertive Russia.

"What, beyond rhetoric, do the Europeans have to offer?'' said George Friedman, chief executive of Stratfor, a geopolitical-risk analysis company in Austin, Texas. ``How do you have a diplomatic initiative with a group of Europeans whose primary goal is to avoid a confrontation?"

EU governments yesterday put the trade talks, under way since June, on hold until Russia makes good on pledges to end the military occupation of parts of Georgia.

"We unambiguously condemn Russia's disproportionate reaction, and we are conscious of our responsibility to maintain dialogue with our Russian neighbors," French President Nicolas Sarkozy told a news conference yesterday after chairing an EU summit in Brussels.

Backed by U.K. Prime Minister Gordon Brown, eastern European governments overcame initial resistance by France and Germany to freezing the talks, launched after 18 months of inner-EU wrangling over what kind of deal to seek from Russia.

Unity
"You have an EU of 27 members showing unity of purpose," Brown said.

Stopping the negotiations might work to Russia's advantage, enabling Moscow to play European governments off against each other in energy and business dealings.

"I am not inclined to overdramatize the results of the summit," Vladimir Chizhov, Russian ambassador to the EU, told Interfax. "But if they want to re-evaluate relations with Russia, then we'd have to do that as well."

The EU said it is counting on diplomatic isolation to force Russia to pull troops back from Georgian territory and prevent the Moscow leadership from bullying other ex-Soviet republics such as Ukraine.

"I'm against any kind of escalation," Austrian Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer said. Russia and Europe have "strategic reasons for reasonable cooperation."

Cease-Fire
Sarkozy, holder of the EU's six-month presidency, will lead an EU delegation to Moscow on Sept. 8 to demand that Russia pull back behind the pre-war lines. He defended the cease-fire that he brokered, which was criticized for vague language that allowed the Russian army to remain on Georgian soil. Russia calls its troops in Georgia "peacekeepers" and says they are in a buffer zone allowed by the cease-fire.

Russia went on to recognize the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, another breakaway Georgian republic. The EU condemned the attempt to dismember Georgia and urged the rest of the world not to recognize the two separatist regions.

Opposition to the scaling back of economic ties is widely shared across the western European countries at the heart of the EU, led by Germany, the country with the deepest business connections to Russia.

Europe's weak hand in confronting Russia "could lead to a trans-Atlantic rift, but it would be a pointless rift because both sides are equally powerless," Jan Techau, an EU and security expert at the German Council on Foreign Relations in Berlin, said in an interview.

Growing Clout
In a sign of their growing clout within the EU, eastern European countries once under the Soviet yoke pushed through a harder line. Some 53 percent of Poles favor imposing sanctions on Russia, with only 30 percent against, according to an Aug. 30 survey published today in the Dziennik newspaper.

The EU toughened up its declaration yesterday in a way that "definitely moved toward Poland's position," Polish President Lech Kaczynski said. The EU eyed a Nov. 14 summit with Russia as a deadline for Russian leaders to recommit to good neighborly relations.

Still, no government leader called openly for sanctions against Russia, a sign of Europe's addiction to Russian energy. Russia delivers over 40 percent of Europe's gas imports, a figure that will rise to 60 percent in 2030, the European Commission says. A third of Europe's imported oil now comes from Russia.

Energy Markets
"Russians need our energy markets and we need Russian energy -- it's as simple as that," Finnish Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb said in a Bloomberg Television interview.

Russia said it won't let up until Georgia ousts its president, Mikheil Saakashvili, who has sought closer ties with the U.S. and is bidding for Georgia to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney departs today for Azerbaijan and Georgia, which are crucial to the westward flow of energy via a corridor that bypasses Russia. He also will stop in Ukraine, whose desire to join NATO is opposed by Russia.

Indicating that regime change in Georgia is the ultimate goal, Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov called on Russian television for an arms embargo on "this regime until a different authority turns Georgia into a normal state."

EU leaders pledged to help repair the damage to Georgia's infrastructure, plus more humanitarian aid on top of at least 14 million euros ($20 million) delivered already. The EU will also organize a donors' conference.

"We are very encouraged by the firm statement," Georgian Prime Minister Lado Gurgenidze said in Brussels yesterday.

The bloc also promised to establish a free-trade zone with Georgia and to make it easier for Georgian citizens to travel to Europe. It didn't set a timetable.


EU, Dependent on Russian Energy, Balks at Georgia War Sanctions - Bloomberg
 

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