Future Ready Combat Vehicle tender

[Suryavanshi]

What tank technology do we actually lack now that is the question?

 

[aditya10r]

What tank technology do we actually lack now that is the question?

Nothing.

________________________________________

We have armour technology,gun barrel technology, engine, APS, communication, BMS everything.

It's Army's reluctance and corruption that stops indigenous products.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Nothing.

________________________________________

We have armour technology,gun barrel technology, engine, APS, communication, BMS everything.

It's Army's reluctance and corruption that stops indigenous products.

Sad state really, I for one know that we have no lack of talent its the bureaucracy that is holding us back

 

[sayareakd]

In my life time, I never heard anything like ' Future ready ' ..

Sir it is smartly worded to keep competition out, "Future Ready" means its ready with them for future, para 8 says it should be inducted and operational in an army, that means if you don't qualify para 8 you are out of the RFI.

Next they know that T14 is heavy and in terms of Arjun MK1, but they don't know the actual weight as it's still secret, 48 Tons are mentioned in open source, but it looks heavy, so they asked 50 tons plus minus 15%, which reaches 57.5 Tons that is almost the same weight as Arjun MK1.

They have made "Future Ready" and para 8 inducted and operational with army, to kill FMBT of Indian army.

They were well aware that FMBT is also weighted about 50 tons (combat weight), so they tried to kill the project by giving outrageous requirement, with minimum standards as per GSQR, including APU (BTW just reading reviel that these standard don't support T90S). Even if DRDO, somehow comes with 50 tons FMBT in record time, which DGMF guys, think drdo will come out, i also hope that. So they purposefully put in this clause, to keep it out. Their past experience even with comparative trial and earlier sabotages (plug in with data logger) shown that, whatever they come up with, it will be countered, by the sarkari salary wala DRDO and duly supported by the patriotic internet warriors.

So basically they want all that is standard in Arjun series from T14, in the name of FRCV.

 

[Vinod DX9]

Each and every details of FRCV
http://thestrategictimes.com/frcv-a-complete-details/

 

[Vinod DX9]

Each and every details of FRCV. And it's not killing Arjun
http://thestrategictimes.com/frcv-a-complete-details/

 

[sayareakd]

What tank technology do we actually lack now that is the question?

Actual question is what IA is looking at the when they have issued RFI, if you read the RFI they are asking for information about FRCV, with basic requirement given, no one fulfil that except T14.

Now what is most important, you have to have tank doctrine, that is based on what is your geographical location, where you want to fight your tank battlers, what enemy has, what they will get in future, etc etc, lot of things.

based on this info you will make your requirements, (not minimal, but advance including the future tech you want, like manned, unmanned, unmanned turret, etc) it will be tailor made solution.

Now when FMBT was suggested to IA by DRDO, DGMF didn't have any GSQR (they still don't have any), so DRDO want ahead and worked on its own to come up something based on their knowledge of technology of future.

DGMF did even better they went in and asked others to give them info on their FRCV, "Ready" is what they want, now they expect others to give them, their most prized info They think they are out to get ready made tank for their need, its like going to buy a shirt, they forget that it should be based on their tank doctrine, not size 42 shirt.

Now coming back to your question, we don't lack any of the tech in infact ,we are better then what ever was offered to us, we prove it in comparative trial , in fact i am looking at unmanned tank in big way, being controlled from the line of sight, with auto loader, that is way superior to what is fielded by T14. Best part, we could use existing T72m ad T90s for this :biggrin2:

Tech is maturing, they are not saying, but you know that is the ultimate objective :biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[aditya10r]

Sir it is smartly worded to keep competition out, "Future Ready" means its ready with them for future, para 8 says it should be inducted and operational in an army, that means if you don't qualify para 8 you are out of the RFI.

Next they know that T14 is heavy and in terms of Arjun MK1, but they don't know the actual weight as it's still secret, 48 Tons are mentioned in open source, but it looks heavy, so they asked 50 tons plus minus 15%, which reaches 57.5 Tons that is almost the same weight as Arjun MK1.

They have made "Future Ready" and para 8 inducted and operational with army, to kill FMBT of Indian army.

They were well aware that FMBT is also weighted about 50 tons (combat weight), so they tried to kill the project by giving outrageous requirement, with minimum standards as per GSQR, including APU (BTW just reading reviel that these standard don't support T90S). Even if DRDO, somehow comes with 50 tons FMBT in record time, which DGMF guys, think drdo will come out, i also hope that. So they purposefully put in this clause, to keep it out. Their past experience even with comparative trial and earlier sabotages (plug in with data logger) shown that, whatever they come up with, it will be countered, by the sarkari salary wala DRDO and duly supported by the patriotic internet warriors.

So basically they want all that is standard in Arjun series from T14, in the name of FRCV.

Guys how about a tianmen square kind of protest to get India embargoed by every goddamn country for and purchasing arms???

I have started to like this idea.

 

[aditya10r]

Actual question is what IA is looking at the when they have issued RFI, if you read the RFI they are asking for information about FRCV, with basic requirement given, no one fulfil that except T14.

Now what is most important, you have to have tank doctrine, that is based on what is your geographical location, where you want to fight your tank battlers, what enemy has, what they will get in future, etc etc, lot of things.

based on this info you will make your requirements, (not minimal, but advance including the future tech you want, like manned, unmanned, unmanned turret, etc) it will be tailor made solution.

Now when FMBT was suggested to IA by DRDO, DGMF didn't have any GSQR (they still don't have any), so DRDO want ahead and worked on its own to come up something based on their knowledge of technology of future.

DGMF did even better they went in and asked others to give them info on their FRCV, "Ready" is what they want, now they expect others to give them, their most prized info They think they are out to get ready made tank for their need, its like going to buy a shirt, they forget that it should be based on their tank doctrine, not size 42 shirt.

Now coming back to your question, we don't lack any of the tech in infact ,we are better then what ever was offered to us, we prove it in comparative trial , in fact i am looking at unmanned tank in big way, being controlled from the line of sight, with auto loader, that is way superior to what is fielded by T14. Best part, we could use existing T72m ad T90s for this :biggrin2:

Tech is maturing, they are not saying, but you know that is the ultimate objective :biggrin2::biggrin2:

Okay what does armata have apart from its 2 person crew that FMBT or Arjun mk2/mk3 can't deliver????

Autoloader,upgrade for 140mm gun?????

What???

 

[Bhoot Pishach]

Guys how about a tianmen square kind of protest to get India embargoed by every goddamn country for and purchasing arms???

I have started to like this idea.

Just do Pokhran - III, and you have it all.

Assured improved TN + All Indigenous produced weapons.

 

[aditya10r]

Just do Pokhran - III, and you have it all.

Assured improved TN + All Indigenous produced weapons.

Nice.

Just a megaton bomb would do it all.

________________________________________

 

[Bahamut]

By your logic India should stop inducting Arjun because it is not 100 % indegeneous but induct Armata which is 100 % foreign and even after paying TOT to Russia for Armata we have to make use of Technology developed for Arjun mk2 in Armata because Russia will not give it even after taking money.
Also how do you come to conclusion that after posessing Armata in 2025-27 timeframe it will allow us to have a pyschological advantages of our enemies. I am not a future predictor but I can foresee a scenario where in by 2020 China definately will make a copy of Armata type MBT and sell downgraded export models of it to Pakistan by 2025. Again Russia sold Su-30 mki to India and Su-35 to China in limited numbers,hence your conclusion that they won't sell to China if offered money is wrong.
Also have any other nations deployed such tanks other than Russia?
From a technological point of view lets see that that you think give a technological advantage to Armata and see where our indegeneous solution stand:

1. Remote unmanned turret: very much within our reach given the expertise in Robotics by CAIR lab of DRDO and CVRDE which recently came up with Muntra-s an unmanned tank on BMP platform.
2.Armour: Kanchan armour is already one of the best composite armour in the world. Expertise in manufacturing of Al,Ti alloys,Fibre reinforced glass/polymer composite,graded functionally graded armour of type Ti/TiB2 etc, advanced ceramics like boron carbide etc as well as Cnt and metal matrix composites,ultrahigh hardness steel have been acheived by DMRL which will find its place in Arjun mK2, Fmbt.
3.Active armour: Work on NERA and ERA is progressing well in DMRL and they have been inducted and future work is being researched.
4. APS: As I previously posted in Arjun thread a UWB radr based APS is being developed.
5. Suspension: work on semiactive suspention in going on in CVRDE
6. Engine: 1500 hp engine is in protyping stage.

All this work apart from FMBT vehicle configuration design and simulation work is being pursued in CVRDE based on revolutionary design
Now tell me what is the advantage do we have by not inducting Arjun mk2 and FMBT and go for T-14?

T-14 is almost a robot, a crew from one T 14can control a group of another T 14 plus it has a inbuilt quad copter to help give better awareness.
Plus T 14 has a 360 AESR and it can all ready identify, track, lock and fire on a enemy target in autonomous mode.
That said we should not buy T 14 but develope a similar system. But the emphasis should on situational awareness.

 

[sayareakd]

Okay what does armata have apart from its 2 person crew that FMBT or Arjun mk2/mk3 can't deliver????

Autoloader,upgrade for 140mm gun?????

What???

T14 has 3 persons crew, I think with all the tech we have made we could have 2 member crew. It will drive by wire, both crew could do, lot of other things.

FMBT will have 3 man crew.

With respect to gun, we have gun tech and we are good at it, Arjun MK1 gun was found to be supper kills in both static, moving target and both moving target and tank.

 

[Bahamut]

Okay what does armata have apart from its 2 person crew that FMBT or Arjun mk2/mk3 can't deliver????

Autoloader,upgrade for 140mm gun?????

What???

Armata is a platform for all tracked vehicles. They will have a light and heavy tank based on platform along with engineering vehicles, spg etc. Thus will reduce cost of spares.
The main thing in the platform is the situational awareness and automation.

 

[sayareakd]

.......................................................................................................

 

[sayareakd]

its so so strange.........................................

 

[sayareakd]

just for records....................................... since this was always abused by the Arjun haters..........

Devil in details

We are watching closely

 

[Vinod DX9]

Several mysterious things I noticed
1) 50T+-15% ???Means it can be from 42 T to 58 T? If we are happy to procure 58T then what's the fault of Arjun? Oh...in Arjun without ERA and APS but in FRCV all of them are included, ok coming to this point later
2) The characteristics statistics differ in two places. As an example at the begining the KE of main gun reffered as 650 mm RHAe and at the end changes to 800 mm! Same case with lethality of HEAT, ATGM and protection level too. Why infos are differed ?
3) Protection level said 1200 mm RHA ....but Lethality 800 mm? Means Pakistan and China have such ammo which can cross 800 mm in lethality but lacks good armour vulnerable at 800 mm just?
4) In 50T+- 15% , 1-1.5 T possibly will be reducted if we strip of ERA and APS system. So it is being believed such an armour can be made which will give huge protection even at just 40T weight if min is considered . And if max is considered then at 56T. At 40T weight giving 1200 mm RHAe is impossible now. And if we use max, then again what was wrong with Arjun? Or FRCV will have better protection in less thickness than Kanchan Armour?
5) Indian FRCV RFI says ...
i) it will be used in mountain warfare
ii) it will be used in desert warfare
iii) it will be used in marshy land , capable of crossing waterbody
How T-14 is capable of doing all of these? T-14 is so big, as Anup sir showed, neither can be used in mountain nor in urban warfare. T-14 is only MBT from Armata UCP. So if not T-14, Armata too should not be considered as they don't fit in it.
6) And Biggest Question
HOW MANY TIMES RFI OF LIGHT TANKS WILL BE PUBLISHED?
After cancelling all old, again recently Army said they want one in 22T category. And in FRCV , again Light Tank has been mentioned. So from how many sources Light Tank will be procured?

 

[Bahamut]

Japanese can win this if they allow export of Type 10
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_10#/search

 

[mayfair]

Each and every details of FRCV. And it's not killing Arjun
http://thestrategictimes.com/frcv-a-complete-details/

Just like the SE Fighter procurement "is not killing Tejas"...