Future of Kolkata

pmaitra

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Point me to a good example where socialism worked for the good of all and was equitable?
USSR, Scandinavia.
The so called exploitation by capitalist few of the larger masses is myth.
Take no offense, but I gotta say this, Indians need to come out of this narcissism.
Anyways we have seen socialism as a cover for suppressing the masses and mass murder #Stalin #Mao #Kims etc etc
Mass murderers are not limited to socialism.
Western capitalist have better social security than any socialist system can think of.
Ipso facto, a capitalist country cannot have socialist system.
Western systems are practising populism, not socialism.
 

TrueSpirit1

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^Capitalism seems to be fine because our current global scenario is being dominated by it but, as a system capitalism is very much exploitive. A few people get advantage while the mass rots. Current global disparities both economic and social has a lot to do with capitalism. Whose development when farmers are doing suicide and labors working under sub-human conditions in factories? Handful of people enjoying life by engaging others in bloody wars. Behind all these evils lie the treacherous system of Capitalism.
You have not traveled much around W.Bengal, right ?
 

TrueSpirit1

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USSR, Scandinavia.

Take no offense, but I gotta say this, Indians needs to come out of this narcissism.

Mass murderers are not limited to socialism.

Ipso facto, a capitalist country cannot have socialist system.
Western systems are practising populism, not socialism.
Social Democrats ?

AFAIK, Scandinavian countries have learned all there was to, from Socialism. Now, the system they follow have all the good elements from Capitalism & Socialism. It is the closest to perfection we have at the moment.
 

pmaitra

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Social Democrats ?

AFAIK, Scandinavian countries have learned all there was to, from Socialism. Now, the system they follow have all the good elements from Capitalism & Socialism. It is the closest to perfection we have at the moment.
In general, I agree. There are a few things where there could be disagreement, but that is only a matter of deep detail.
 

Yusuf

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USSR, Scandinavia.

Take no offense, but I gotta say this, Indians need to come out of this narcissism.

Mass murderers are not limited to socialism.

Ipso facto, a capitalist country cannot have socialist system.
Western systems are practising populism, not socialism.
USSR's demise considered as victory of capitalism over socialism.

Let's count how many capitalist system since WWII oppressed their ppl, killed them?

I didn't say capitalist countries have socialist system. I said they have good social security.
 

pmaitra

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USSR's demise considered as victory of capitalism over socialism.
By whom? People who are ignorant about USSR's history before Brezhnev.
Let's count how many capitalist system since WWII oppressed their ppl, killed them?
Why since WWII? Why not go past that? You now who'll win. :p
I didn't say capitalist countries have socialist system. I said they have good social security.
Social Security is one example of socialism. You just did not explicitly say "socialist system," buy say, you implicitly did.
 

nrupatunga

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^Capitalism seems to be fine because our current global scenario is being dominated by it but, as a system capitalism is very much exploitive. A few people get advantage while the mass rots.
The underlined sentence is true. Whether is socialism or capitalism wealth is controlled by the 1%'ers everywhere. Even in 1000 B.C, even in 1000 A.D or even 2200 A.D.

But relatively capitalism is much better than socialism. Capitalism allows wealth creation by outsiders as well (best example in india is IT industry. Its another thing that now most of IT majors have been co-opted)
Whereas in socialism/communism state decides everything thus strangulating everyone else.
 
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nrupatunga

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Point me to a good example where socialism worked for the good of all and was equitable?
USSR, Scandinavia.
Scandinavia?? Yes, people are heavily taxed over there. Govt subsidizes many things. Takes care of elderly people/young children. But what about wealth creation?? The saab's, nokia's, volvo's, ABB's, electrolux's, skf etc have generated wealth. Socialism(as in govt taking care of citizenry) worked there because wealth generation by citizens was allowed.Government did not regulate who has to do what, how much, where etc etc

WRT USSR, am not sure if communism worked at all. Large % of masses suffered. Though for many, state did ensure a certain level of lifestyle but it also ensured that, that level of threshold was not crossed as well.
 

Menhit

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Point me to a good example where socialism worked for the good of all and was equitable? The so called exploitation by capitalist few of the larger masses is myth. Anyways we have seen socialism as a cover for suppressing the masses and mass murder #Stalin #Mao #Kims etc etc

Western capitalist have better social security than any socialist system can think of.
We are yet to see the most devastating impact of capitalism. Capitalist countries have given bad name to socialism of USSR which was more beneficial to masses compared to capitalism of US. West copied Soviet system of welfare and included in their policies but, still there are thousands of homeless people in US. Public schools of US are no where near to the standards of private schools resulting in only a very few people going to University from public school also the University itself is very costly in US.
If you think poors in west has no problem then the reason is their problem has been shifted to developing countries. Western countries have transferred their manufacturing and services to be done at low cost in developing countries where workers suffer. Millions of people in India and China are victims of modern slavery. It is the reason for our low HDI.
What capitalism has done to present world? It engaged half of the world in Africa and middle-east in war and it made rest of the half world its labour market for manufacturing, services and last but not least a dumping ground of all its dangerous E and nuclear wastes. Forests are depleting and even water is getting privatized. Just a few days ago in an article Nestle's CEO talking about water to remove from human rights. Very soon we would be buying packaged air too for breathing fresh air too lol. But, this perhaps won't go that further because if we see a large scale war of discontent against current market economy then it would change everything we see in this world and there would be a gross change in whole system. So, I would say it is too early to crown Capitalism as the winner.
 

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