Full blown "ARMSGATE"

anoop_mig25

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
5,804
Likes
3,151
Country flag
Well we should have law germany has. they have legalised bribe /comission paid to agent in case their product is sold in other countries
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

Detests Jholawalas
Ambassador
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
7,114
Likes
7,761
In the whole debate we are missing the basic economics argument. Look at the tradeoffs:
There is a scam and someone made fortunes.

Case 1) Lets say you go ahead and still seal the deal. So we purchased things at a high cost(or slightly bad stuff). The extra cost of this deal is x.

Case 2) You do not seal the deal and buy similar stuff 5 yrs down the line at much high cost or do not buy at all. The extra cost in this case be y.

In any case, y > x(most of the times). So, even if there is a scam, the govt. keeping this calculation in mind should finalize the deal immediately and hunt for those who received the kickbacks.
 

Yusuf

GUARDIAN
Super Mod
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
24,324
Likes
11,757
Country flag
No freaking way dude. Don't you get it? We need a home grown functional defence industry. Not run from one liability to the next.
Off course. I said this first up in the thread on the chopper scam. But till the time we have a good MIC, we have to import
 

average american

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,540
Likes
440
Not much is said about the military leadership of another country by the USA unless we are at war,, but on the rate occasions that it happens what has slipped out , it seems that Indias military leadership mindset is much like the mind set of the people in this forum. I guess thats to be expected. Comments I have come across are preoccupied with weapons rather then systems and stratgy. a go slow mindset, a little crooked,old thinking and preoccupied with Pakistan. Army Chief, top generals wasted crores, shows Defence Ministry audit - India - IBNLive
 

average american

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2012
Messages
1,540
Likes
440
One of the things Indians have difficutly understanding is the concept that military equipment in the USA is not manfactured by the goverment.....McDonnell Douglas wants to sell F18s to India because McDonnell Douglas wants to make a profit for its stockholders and bonuses for its executives. Its not because we feel we owe India any thing, that we are a charity, that we like little people. The Military and the US Goverment only approves or disapproves and applies restrictions on miltiary sales. They may take into consideration national stratgy and geopoltical considerations. .
 

sayareakd

Mod
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
17,734
Likes
18,951
Country flag
First is that, we want reliable supplier and past record of US to other countries has show it otherwise.

Second is the fact that if we pay top $$$ for weapons then we will use it way we want it. That also means no inspection. Current US stupid agreement dont allow this.
 
Last edited:

trackwhack

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
3,757
Likes
2,589
One of the things Indians have difficutly understanding is the concept that military equipment in the USA is not manfactured by the goverment.....McDonnell Douglas wants to sell F18s to India because McDonnell Douglas wants to make a profit for its stockholders and bonuses for its executives. Its not because we feel we owe India any thing, that we are a charity, that we like little people. The Military and the US Goverment only approves or disapproves and applies restrictions on miltiary sales. They may take into consideration national stratgy and geopoltical considerations. .
MCD can shove their outdated platform that failed to meet minimum mmrca specs, up where the sun don't shine. Go play stupid somewhere else.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,132
Likes
23,834
Let more scams happen, it worries none of those involved.

The CBI will 'investigate' and then it will all go into what Hindi channels call as 'thanda basket'.

None will be wiser.

HDW and Bofors did have money involved.

But the bribe takers been caught?
 

sob

Mod
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
6,425
Likes
3,805
Country flag
@sayreakd, US past record is checkered when you look at countries like Paksitan, Iran and some other more colourful countries.
Whereas countries like Israel, Japan, Australia and even Turkey have no complaints.

Even if I were somewhat in charge of supplies of weapons to Pakistan I would be keeping safety checks. With India the US has a different relationship. First of all we have to rise up above our old mindset and assert ourselves. We have to have the confidence in ourselves to negotiate with the Americans as equals not as a client state. A superb example is the Jaswant -Strobe Talbott talks in the aftermath of the nuclear explosion which led the path for lifting of sanctions and the subsequent Nuclear Deal.

Today we talk to the Americans on weapons when we have no choice and need force multipliers. Of course they will extract their pound of flesh because all the manufacturers are in Private Sector and want to make profit. We need to enter into a strategic dialogue with the Americans and engage them on a broad front. They are not our enemies but one of the largest trading partners and let us not forget that in WB/IMF their vote is always for India for disbursing loans.

There will be cases like Iran where we will have disagreement but that does not mean that we are enemies or rivals. In over 90% of the cases our interests merge and we have to focus on them.
 

sob

Mod
Joined
May 4, 2009
Messages
6,425
Likes
3,805
Country flag
Let more scams happen, it worries none of those involved.

The CBI will 'investigate' and then it will all go into what Hindi channels call as 'thanda basket'.

None will be wiser.

HDW and Bofors did have money involved.

But the bribe takers been caught?
Sir, were we interested in catching the guilty. The Congress wanted to shield the royal family and the opposition wanted to keep the issue alive for their political benefit. Catching the guilty was never in anybody's interest.
 

SPIEZ

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
3,508
Likes
1,021
Country flag
We are doomed. All weapons purchases will come into question and further stop or delay future acquisitions
On the other hand a very good opportunity for both private sector and public sector industries to rise.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
Government is reluctant to spend on National Defense Industry, Reasons are endless scams..

India have everything for Research and Development so does Mass Production, But why things are not coming out of it ?
 

SPIEZ

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
3,508
Likes
1,021
Country flag
Government is reluctant to spend on National Defense Industry, Reasons are endless scams..

India have everything for Research and Development so does Mass Production, But why things are not coming out of it ?
Seems like the army has to the answer that question.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
No matter what, US is not keen of transferring TOT, Javelin is an example, Without TOT there is no support for National defense research..

C-130J and P8-I have Indian Component which US refuse to give, US trade comes with strings and demands so does Inspections..

Indian Armed Forces are huge, Buying 10 - 20 wont do, We need thousands..


Today we talk to the Americans on weapons when we have no choice and need force multipliers.
 

Kunal Biswas

Member of the Year 2011
Ambassador
Joined
May 26, 2010
Messages
31,122
Likes
41,042
If you talk about Army, Army is the largest user of Indian Made Stuff, From small arms to its logistic chain so does critical instrument in medical and engg corps..

There is corruption Indeed under Political influence, That show very much deals

Seems like the army has to the answer that question.
 

SPIEZ

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
3,508
Likes
1,021
Country flag
If you talk about Army, Army is the largest user of Indian Made Stuff, From small arms to its logistic chain so does critical instrument in medical and engg corps..

There is corruption Indeed under Political influence, That show very much deals
Who get's a say in GSQR?

Why are we going for a foreign gun?
Why are we going for a foreign tank?
Why are the INSAS being faded out?
Why were the Nags never inducted?

Maybe for the actions of a few, the whole army faces heat in more ways than one. They end up having no weapons?
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top