Frontier Infrastructure: Loopholes, Scenarios, etc., and Solutions

pmaitra

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Frontier Infrastructure: Loopholes, Scenarios, Contingencies, Plans, Programmes, and Solutions

This thread is for discussing the Western and Eastern Sectors of the Indo-Tibetan Border and LAC, as well as the LAC with PoK.

Kindly discuss the weaknesses, loopholes, and India's current scenario about troop movement. We must also discuss weapons systems that can be used specifically in these regions, in case of a future war, which could be either defensive, or if we start a campaign to capture more territory to gain diplomatic leverage.

You are encouraged to post anecdotal evidence of similar events in the past in any part of the world, and what India can learn from this.

Finally, we should also discuss how India can reach a position of strength, like PRC has, that it is able to afford belligerent actions.

Related thread for PRC or Chinese side: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...ure-whats-up-prc-chinese-side.html#post749317
Related thread: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/defence-strategic-issues/54139-weasel-tibetan-plateau.html
 

pmaitra

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Placeholder for maps and references (Indo-Tibet LAC, Eastern Sector)

I will be editing this post, again and again, as we get more information about specific locations on the LAC.

 

pmaitra

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Placeholder for maps and references (Indo-Tibet LAC, Western Sector)

I will be editing this post, again and again, as we get more information about specific locations on the LAC.

 

pmaitra

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Placeholder for maps and references (Indo-PoK LAC, All of J&K)

I will be editing this post, again and again, as we get more information about specific locations on the LAC.

 

hit&run

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@pmaitra; I was going to open the same thread with title , 'PLA out from Indian territory; future strategies for India' but you were quick.

My answer to your post, I directed a post at Ray Sir.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...to-indian-territory-ladakh-29.html#post720977

Sir, InA can have 24 x 365 clocks presence at Siachen because of hostile Pakistan, We can station InA with same strength or better at DBO as well. If it will be costlier in terms of budget then the same nation can afford scams worth billions by politicians; I see no problem having few such frontiers along LAC as well. We have such presence at nathula pass sikkim.
We must develop and maintain few more frontiers at LAC like we are at Siachin. DOB will be more better with air strip which should be now accommodating all types of military planes/jets.
 
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SamwiseTheBrave

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@pmaitra; I was going to open the same thread with title , 'PLA out from Indian territory; future strategies for India' but you were quick.

My answer to your post, I directed a post at Ray Sir.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...to-indian-territory-ladakh-29.html#post720977



We must develop and maintain few more frontiers at LAC like we are at Siachin. DOB will be more better with air strip which should be now accommodating all types of military planes/jets.
is the terrain actually so harsh that we cannot build all-weather roadways there ?
 
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SamwiseTheBrave

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@pmaitra; I was going to open the same thread with title , 'PLA out from Indian territory; future strategies for India' but you were quick.

My answer to your post, I directed a post at Ray Sir.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...to-indian-territory-ladakh-29.html#post720977



We must develop and maintain few more frontiers at LAC like we are at Siachin. DOB will be more better with air strip which should be now accommodating all types of military planes/jets.
how about starting with the basics like having a unified org. structure all get ITBP under the Army ? IA needs to put its foot down and get this done ! obstinate babus need to be told in plain and simple terms that this is non negotiable !
 
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Kunal Biswas

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ITBP is acting like BSF in those area, No harm there..

In War they will automatically work with Army..
 

pmaitra

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We must develop and maintain few more frontiers at LAC like we are at Siachin. DOB will be more better with air strip which should be now accommodating all types of military planes/jets.
Not all types, at least now. Take for example the Ilyushin-76; in those heights it will need 3 km of runway. DBO won't support that. The only place long enough for this is the Chusul airfield.
 

Kunal Biswas

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What is needed there is a Chain of sophisticated all weather Bunkers, With enough surveillance ( Optical as well as Radar ) and enough defensive capabilities and communications..

Also need helipads near these posts, Hili-pads design to land Light class Helos..

All these requirements for now..
 

ladder

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Unsecured frontiers: Is there an LAC?

Itanagar (Arunachal Pradesh), May 6 (ANI): The Chinese Army's withdrawl from the Daulat Beg Oldie sector in Ladakh Sunday after a 20-day tricky incursion, may have served Beijing's purpose well ahead of Premier Li Keqiang's visit to India towards the end of this month, but it raises a pertinent question mark on whether India's frontiers are secure?

The Ladakh, Sikkim and Tawang sectors are always in limelight, as the People's Liberation Army (PLA) resorts to such misadventures to draw international attention and keep the Sino-India border row alive.

It is a fact that most of the 1,080-kilomter-long border with China along Arunachal Pradesh is completely porous, unsecured and without any perception of a Line of Actual Control (LAC), as the concrete posts demarcating the border between both nations is covered by thick shrubs, making it impossible even for the security forces to identify the LAC.

Right from the defence and external ministers to the top rungs of the Army, border incursions are repeatedly played down, attributing such moves to 'different perception' of the LAC.

The Keyala Pass is the best example. In October 2000, a team of adventurers led by Kumar Mihu had ventured into that sector in Dibang Valley district with the help of Assam Rifles guarding the border. The team was shocked to find tell tale signs of Chinese beer bottles, cigarettes and eatable packets strewn all along the Indian border that had prompted the then chief minister Mukut Mithi to accuse China of intruding into Indian territory.

The story filed by me was flashed all over by PTI giving the best opportunity to then defence minister George Fernandes to nullify his statement 'China is our enemy number one' by air-dashing to Itanagar to deny the intrusion and announcing improved bilateral ties between the two Asian giants.

Sadly, six months later, Fernandes had admitted in the Rajya Sabha that China had intruded 50 metres into Indian territory.

South Block mandarins, including the political bosses, without any knowledge of the ground realities, issue statements based on feedbacks provided through sketch maps.

The entire area from Kaila Pass to the inhabited Indian areas is about 150 kilometers long, which means no one knows the status of those uninhabited areas. Some Assam Rifles personnel and intelligence men used to undertake months-long patrolling from the last Indian border post to reach the pass and vice versa.

Chinese smugglers of high value animal organs used in Chinese medicines with feedback from the PLA used to walk into Indian territory in search of Kasturi (Mrig navi) and precious medicines like Mishmi Tita during the intervening period of the Indian patrol party's return.

Kasturi Mrig, scientifically known as Moschus Chrysogaster, is an endangered wild species living in the Himalayas. Kasturi (musk), an aromatic fluid produced by a gland present near its naval, is used in approximately 150 Ayurvedic and allopathic medicines for which this beautiful animal is killed.

Arunachal Pradesh swears by the wonders of Mishmi Teeta or Coptis Teeta, a herb that can't be found anywhere else on earth. The bitter plant, locals claim, can cure almost anything.

But when her mother Gutitun was diagnosed with cancer in 2009, Basamlu Krisikro went beyond the herb – that derives its name from her ethnic group Mishmi. She began giving her mother a daily cup of organic green tea sourced from a niche estate near Roing town in Lower Dibang Valley district. But it wasn't always convenient for her to travel miles to get the chemical-free beverage. So Basamlu, 39, decided to grow tea in the backyard of her house at Wakro, writes journalist Rahul Karmakar.

The porous Tama Chung Chung sector in Upper Subansiri district is equally unsecured as civilians complain about border incursions.

The Indian Army is not aware of 1962 hero rifleman Shere Thapa of 2 JK Rifles, who had killed numerous PLA soldiers in the Tama Chung ridge on Oct 18, 1962. The Subansiri River had failed to carry the huge corpses of PLA men before Thapa was killed by a Chinese soldier wounded by his bullet.

His mortal remains buried respectfully by PLA soldiers with a small note praising his bravery, were brought by the villagers to build his memorial, which stands tall today as a testimony to his gallantry.

The great soldier is highly revered in the area for his act of gallantry, but none bothered to honour him posthumously.

Last year, the Indian Government made amends, when Defence Minister A K Antony paid tribute to him at the Amar Jawan Jyoti in New Delhi. Why is there reservation about recognising Shere Thapa's bravery in the face of adversity and certain death?

After announcing that there is no fear for the eastern frontier during the Arunachal Pradesh Statehood Day celebration at Itanagar, Antony did a U-turn by directing the Army to fortify the border during his first meeting with new Army Chief General Bikram Singh.

"By and large, the border is peaceful, and at the same time, India is taking care of strengthening its capabilities to protect our national interest from any kind of challenges from any quarters. The Eastern border is safe and we will make it safer, (and) for that, whatever is needed to strengthen our security apparatus, we are taking care of it continuously in a systematic manner," Antony said.

"We are also taking care of the socio-economic development of the people living in border areas. I want to make it amply clear that our security forces are capable of protecting our national interests," he said.

Besides developing defence capabilities, he said, infrastructures like roads and airfields are also being built for defence and civilian operations as the GoI wants Arunachal to develop fast as true partner in India's development.

How prepared we are?

The foot track to Khinzemane, the last army post along the India-China border in the Tawang sector, is in a dilapidated condition and the log bridges along the Nyamjang Chu river are equally in a ramshackle condition.

This clearly reflects the preparedness of our forces.

Will those concerned for the securing frontiers accept the hard truth and take adequate steps instead of indulging in political rhetoric.

Attn: News Editors/News Desks: The views expressed in the above article are that of Mr. Pradeep Kumar, Editor-in-Chief of the Arunachal Front newspaper By Pradeep Kumar(ANI)
Unsecured frontiers: Is there an LAC? | TruthDiveTruthDive
 

ladder

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The current guiding principle for India-China border dispute is the 2005 agreement.
Pasting here the agreement as it appeared in THE HINDU.
We can discuss the salient points and debate whether it is biased.

Monday April 11, 2005
Text of India-China agreement

This is the text of the agreement between the Government of the Republic of India and the Government of the People's Republic of China on the Political Parameters and Guiding Principles for the Settlement of the India-China Boundary Question

The Government of the Republic of India and the Government of the People's Republic of China (hereinafter referred to as the two sides),

Believing that it serves the fundamental interests of the peoples of India and China to foster a long-term constructive and cooperative partnership on the basis of the Five Principles of Peaceful Co-existence, mutual respect and sensitivity for each other's concerns and aspirations, and equality,

Desirous of qualitatively upgrading the bilateral relationship at all levels and in all areas while addressing differences through peaceful means in a fair, reasonable and mutually acceptable manner,

Reiterating their commitment to abide by and implement the Agreement on the Maintenance of Peace and Tranquillity along the Line of Actual Control in the India-China Border Areas, signed on 7 September 1993, and the Agreement on Confidence Building Measures in the Military Field along the Line of Actual Control in the India-China Border Areas, signed on 29 November 1996,

Reaffirming the Declaration on Principles for Relations and Comprehensive Cooperation between India and China, signed on 23 June 2003,

Recalling that the two sides have appointed Special Representatives to explore the framework of settlement of the India-China boundary question and the two Special Representatives have been engaged in consultations in a friendly, cooperative and constructive atmosphere,

Noting that the two sides are seeking a political settlement of the boundary question in the context of their overall and long-term interests,

Convinced that an early settlement of the boundary question will advance the basic interests of the two countries and should therefore be pursued as a strategic objective,

Have agreed on the following political parameters and guiding principles for a boundary settlement:

Article I

The differences on the boundary question should not be allowed to affect the overall development of bilateral relations. The two sides will resolve the boundary question through peaceful and friendly consultations. Neither side shall use or threaten to use force against the other by any means. The final solution of the boundary question will significantly promote good neighbourly and friendly relations between India and China.

Article II

The two sides should, in accordance with the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence, seek a fair, reasonable and mutually acceptable solution to the boundary question through consultations on an equal footing, proceeding from the political perspective of overall bilateral relations.

Article III

Both sides should, in the spirit of mutual respect and mutual understanding, make meaningful and mutually acceptable adjustments to their respective positions on the boundary question, so as to arrive at a package settlement to the boundary question. The boundary settlement must be final, covering all sectors of the India-China boundary.

Article IV

The two sides will give due consideration to each other's strategic and reasonable interests, and the principle of mutual and equal security.

Article V

The two sides will take into account, inter alia, historical evidence, national sentiments, practical difficulties and reasonable concerns and sensitivities of both sides, and the actual state of border areas.

Article VI

The boundary should be along well-defined and easily identifiable natural geographical features to be mutually agreed upon between the two sides.

Article VII

In reaching a boundary settlement, the two sides shall safeguard due interests of their settled populations in the border areas.

Article VIII

Within the agreed framework of the final boundary settlement, the delineation of the boundary will be carried out utilising means such as modern cartographic and surveying practices and joint surveys.

Article IX

Pending an ultimate settlement of the boundary question, the two sides should strictly respect and observe the line of actual control and work together to maintain peace and tranquillity in the border areas. The India-China Joint Working Group and the India-China Diplomatic and Military Expert Group shall continue their work under the Agreements of 7 September 1993 and 29 November 1996, including the clarification of the line of actual control and the implementation of confidence building measures.

Article X

The Special Representatives on the boundary question shall continue their consultations in an earnest manner with the objective of arriving at an agreed framework for a boundary settlement, which will provide the basis for the delineation and demarcation of the India-China boundary to be subsequently undertaken by civil and military officials and surveyors of the two sides.

Article XI

This Agreement shall come into force as of the date of signature and is subject to amendment and addition by mutual agreement in writing between the two sides.

Signed in duplicate in New Delhi on 11 April, 2005, in the Hindi, Chinese and English languages, all three texts being equally authentic. In case of divergence, the English text shall prevail.

For the Government of the Republic of India

For the Government of the People's Republic of China

New Delhi
April 11, 2005
Text of India-China agreement
 

W.G.Ewald

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China and India withdraw troops from Daulat Beg Oldie, Ladakh, ending standoff | GlobalPost

Following a three-week standoff, China and India have withdrawn their respective forces from a disputed area of Daulat Beg Oldie, Ladakh, along their shared border.

The agreement was reached after intense negotiations during a flag meeting between Indian and Chinese commanders on Sunday, according to media reports.

Both sides withdrew to their respective pre-incursion positions near the so-called "Line of Actual Control" (LAC).
 

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