French military developments

[Longewala]

Because they know they'll never be able to fight a land war as it is.
Those 300 are to keep up the expertise of the land force, so if the need arises for them to act as a lieutenant to the US in some country in middle east, they can show off their over expensive junk.

Well that's the typical force level for all major European countries
Germany, Italy, France, UK combined have less than 1000 MBTs

 

[BON PLAN]

Because they know they'll never be able to fight a land war as it is.
Those 300 are to keep up the expertise of the land force, so if the need arises for them to act as a lieutenant to the US in some country in middle east, they can show off their over expensive junk.

Not really.
Our MBT Leclerc was made to fight 1 vs 10 against Warsaw pact tanks.
With the collapse of USSR, the number fall from an intended 1500 to nearly 400. Now 300 and in a next future 200+.
But 200 world top class, able to fight against more numerous ennemy thanks to a very effective weapon system, upgraded often, and the most precise gun when used from a moving tank against a moving target, with a rate of fire of a shell every 6 seconds. Any T72, T90 can be destroyed at 4000m with a 90% assured shoot.
Not too bad for a "expensive junk".

PS : Jaguar EBRC is not a MBT (just to be sure).

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Not really.
Our MBT Leclerc was made to fight 1 vs 10 against Warsaw pact tanks.
With the collapse of USSR, the number fall from an intended 1500 to nearly 400. Now 300 and in a next future 200+.
But 200 world top class, able to fight against more numerous ennemy thanks to a very effective weapon system, upgraded often, and the most precise gun when used from a moving tank against a moving target, with a rate of fire of a shell every 6 seconds. Any T72, T90 can be destroyed at 4000m with a 90% assured shoot.
Not too bad for a "expensive junk".

PS : Jaguar EBRC is not a MBT (just to be sure).

Quantity have it's own advantages.......
And in tank warfare condition of the battle field also play important role.

 

[BON PLAN]

Quantity have it's own advantages.......
And in tank warfare condition of the battle field also play important role.

Sure.
But the actual battlefield order is filled to the probable low intensity conflicts, with emphasis on special forces, light to medium vehicules, air support...
A huge conflicts against russia is highly unlikely, because the two sides are nuclear equipped, and because russia has a huge amount of tanks, but few of them are really a hard nut, and main of the crews are poorly trained, except few regiments.

 

[Armand2REP]

Heckler and Koch is now owned by a French investor related to Napoleon

Nicolas Walewski was apparently able to secure over 50 percent of the company's shares with his family's private assets.


https://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/ind...n-investor-nicht-fuerchten-muss/25352120.html

 

[asianobserve]

Sure.
But the actual battlefield order is filled to the probable low intensity conflicts, with emphasis on special forces, light to medium vehicules, air support...
A huge conflicts against russia is highly unlikely, because the two sides are nuclear equipped, and because russia has a huge amount of tanks, but few of them are really a hard nut, and main of the crews are poorly trained, except few regiments.

But T-90 is better than Cold War era Soviet tanks and T-14, if produced in sufficient numbers, which is unlikely, will be an overmatch to existing Western MBTs. So NATO countries now have to invest to maintain their qualitative edge.

 

[nongaddarliberal]

But T-90 is better than Cold War era Soviet tanks and T-14, if produced in sufficient numbers, which is unlikely, will be an overmatch to existing Western MBTs. So NATO countries now have to invest to maintain their qualitative edge.

France and Germany have no intention of going to war with Russia, and vice versa. They dont put too much of a priority on Baltic countries or Poland. The Americans are the ones who are obsessed with containing Russia. There's a clear divergence of interests between western Europe and the US.

 

[asianobserve]

France and Germany have no intention of going to war with Russia, and vice versa. They dont put too much of a priority on Baltic countries or Poland. The Americans are the ones who are obsessed with containing Russia. There's a clear divergence of interests between western Europe and the US.

The best way to not go to war is to prepare for it ---- ironic isn't it? Why do you think France and Germany are investing billions in dollars for a new fighter, new radars, missiles, IFVs, nuke subs, etc? To fly on airshows, display on military parades, or play around the World's deep oceans? I thought you're a military observer...

 

[Assassin 2.0]

The best way to not go to war is to prepare for it ---- ironic isn't it? Why do you think France and Germany are investing billions in dollars for a new fighter, new radars, missiles, IFVs, nuke subs, etc? To fly on airshows, display on military parades, or play around the World's deep oceans? I thought you're a military observer...

Then why French President is claiming that NATO is brain dead organization?
( Russia with it's constant propaganda is claiming that it's not a threat for Europe. Even if countries are not at war strong armed forces are required to have a strong global image.)

 

[Bleh]

The best way to not go to war is to prepare for it ---- ironic isn't it? Why do you think France and Germany are investing billions in dollars for a new fighter, new radars, missiles, IFVs, nuke subs, etc? To fly on airshows, display on military parades, or play around the World's deep oceans? I thought you're a military observer...

Americans have a pathological need to fight losing wars!
They go in pompously, then drag on the war years, then they run away with abandoning their local allies & leaving the country they were trying to "help" in a war-torn shithole.
They did in it Korea... They did it in Vietnam... they did it in Somalia... they did in Libya... they did in Syria... they're preparing to do it in Afghanistan... now they want to do it in Ukraine.

Why the fuck would French or Germans want to follow them again.

 

[asianobserve]

Then why French President is claiming that NATO is brain dead organization?
( Russia with it's constant propaganda is claiming that it's not a threat for Europe. Even if countries are not at war strong armed forces are required to have a strong global image.)

Macron is just trying to out-Trump Trump. Besides, Macron's stand is another cynical French move to profit from Russia. French are the most corrupt powers in its time. No wonder they've been kicked out forcibly from most of their colonies.

French just want 1 thing, money. Macron would even sell the hyde of his mother to Putin and Salman. No wonder the German's are feeling uneasy wofking with French in FCAS.

 

[asianobserve]

Americans have a pathological need to fight losing wars!
They go in pompously, then drag on the war years, then they run away with abandoning their local allies & leaving the country they were trying to "help" in a war-torn shithole.
They did in it Korea... They did it in Vietnam... they did it in Somalia... they did in Libya... they did in Syria... they're preparing to do it in Afghanistan... now they want to do it in Ukraine.

Why the fuck would French or Germans want to follow them again.

You win some and you lose some. Nobody or country is invincible. But French has lost all major wars since WW2 that it was at the helm, from losing to Hitler quiet embarassingly to losing its 3rd World colonies in wars of independence.

Korea was a stalemste, although looking at NoKor it definitely looks like a win for America and SoKor. Then America may have lost Vietnam, blame it on the French who treated the Vietnamese like dirth bahs, but it ultimately defeated the mighty USSR. And just ask Saddam and the likes of what they think of American war machine.

As to Ukraine, well it's Ukraine versus Russia. And Russia is universally hated in its neighborhood care to ask why? (While South and Central Americans are rosking limbs and lives to illegally migrate to America. What a contrast!)

Afghanistan is a win in so far as defeating Al Qaeda there is concerned. But in so far as turning Afghanistan into a civilized country, well America is no closer than USSR was in the 70's.

And French are the most ingrateful of allnpowers. America saved its ass in WW2, paid for its ass as it tries to stave off the independence of its colonies. But when America objective to France invading Suez all of a sudden France wants to have independent FP.

 

[Bleh]

You win some and you lose some. Nobody or country is invincible. But French has lost all major wars since WW2 that it was at the helm, from losing to Hitler quiet embarassingly to losing its 3rd World colonies in wars of independence.

America may have lost Vietnam, blame it on the French who treated the Vietnamese like dirth bahs, but it ultimately defeated the mighty USSR. And just ask Saddam and the likes of what they think of American war machine.And French are the most ingrateful of allnpowers. America saved its ass in WW2, paid for its ass as it tries to stave off thebindependence ofvits colonies. But when America objective to France invading Suez all of a sudden France wants to jave independent FP.

Except they haven't really won anywhere since WW2... If you count their overall campaign at Iraq, then not even Gulf.
List of countries they have tried to "help" but then ran away from, continuous streak:

1. Korea,
2. Vietnam,
3. Somalia,
4. Libya,
5. Iraq,
6. Afghanistan (Fun fact: Taliban controls more of the country today, than they did before NATO intervention)
7. Syria (taken over by Russia & Iran allied forces)
8. Ukraine (coming soon)

This is still true.

Americans have a pathological need to fight losing wars!
They go in boasting pompously, then drag on the war for years, then runs away abandoning their regional allies & leaving the country they were trying to "help" as a war-torn shithole.

If USA had any self-respect it would bring home the troops deployed all over the ungrateful Europe who shits on them everyday. Just Japan & S.Korea deserve to be protected by them. Let Russia fuck Ukraine, which they will the moment NATO stops aiding.

And French don't owe Americans shit... It was the Americans who owed them a liberation.

Any T72, T90 can be destroyed at 4000m with a 90% assured shoot.
Not too bad for a "expensive junk".

Excuse me, but this is not true either... New T-90 & T-72B3 are just as capable as LeClerc. They have ATGMs too that outrange it by atleast 2000m, their new armour are good enough to survive hits beyond 1000m unless a lucky shot catches a weak point.

 

[asianobserve]

Except they haven't really won anywhere since WW2... If you count their overall campaign at Iraq, then not even Gulf.
Countries countries they have tried to "help" but then ran away from, continuous streak:

1. Korea,
2. Vietnam,
3. Somalia,
4. Libya,
5. Iraq,
6. Afghanistan (on waiting list)
7. Syria (on waiting list)
8. Ukraine (coming soon)

This is still true.
If USA had any self-respect it would bring home the troops deployed all over the ungrateful Europe who sits on them everyday. Just Japan & S.Korea deserve to be protected by them.

And French don't owe Americans shit... It was the Americans who owed them a liberation.

I suggest you read your history.

1. In Korea it was the NoKor's that lunched a surprise attack against Sokor with Soviet and Chinese support to unify SoKor under NoKor. The SoKors were routed until America mustered a defensive stance. The US, Sokors and allies (including India and the Philippines although I must say that the Philippine BCT kicked more Chinese asses than Indian forces) pushed backed. A see-saw ensued pitting qualitative power of US and allies versus vast numerical advantage of Nokors, Chinese and Soviets. But in the end, NoKor went nowhere than back to the line that it first crossed.

Is that a loss for America?

2. Blame the French in US' Vietnam debacle. Actually, Ho Chi Min was supported by America against Japan in WW2 and had close ties to America. But when forced to choose between Ho Chi Min and caucasian (ingrate) De Gaulle the Americans preferred its European ally. Now, look at how Vietnam welcomes America?

In any case, while America lost the war in Vietnam, it never lost a battle there. But in the end the American public could not anymore stomach the senseless violence against a people (Vietnam) who just wants i dependence.

3. Somalia was not a US war. It was a peace keeping operation that the US military objected to in the first place. The Americans could have simply annihilated every sibgle crazy Somalian there but that country then had no strategic importance to America. So America simply stopped its peace keeping role.

4. Lybia, well ask Gaddafi.

5. Iraq, were you hybernating these last 20 years?

6. Afghanistan (explained above)

7. Syria, before the Syrian civil war Asssd was in control of whole Syria. But now US has bases all over Syria with its allies. The Americans can easily keep these bsses where it not for crazy Trump.

8. Ukraine, well, Ukraine is now 100% anti-Russia save for some parts in the East. I would say, if Ukraine is planned by America, its a f#cking brillant move without America getting its hands dirty. Russia hss lost its most powerful and biggest ally in Ukraine!

So again, please read, read, and read more. Stop watching RT.

 

[Bleh]

I suggest you read your history.

1. In Korea it was the NoKor's that lunched a surprise attack against Sokor with Soviet and Chinese support to unify SoKor under NoKor. The SoKors were routed until America mustered a defensive stance. The US, Sokors and allies (including India and the Philippines although I must say that the Philippine BCT kicked more Chinese asses than Indian forces) pushed backed. A see-saw ensued pitting qualitative power of US and allies versus vast numerical advantage of Nokors, Chinese and Soviets. But in the end, NoKor went nowhere than back to the line that it first crossed.

Is that a loss for America?

2. Blame the French in US' Vietnam debacle. Actually, Ho Chi Min was supported by America against Japan in WW2 and had close ties to America. But when forced to choose between Ho Chi Min and caucasian (ingrate) De Gaulle the Americans preferred its European ally. Now, look at how Vietnam welcomes America?

In any case, while America lost the war in Vietnam, it never lost a battle there. But in the end the American public could not anymore stomach the senseless violence against a people (Vietnam) who just wants i dependence.

3. Somalia was not a US war. It was a peace keeping operation that the US military objected to in the first place. The Americans could have simply annihilated every sibgle crazy Somalian there but that country then had no strategic importance to America. So America simply stopped its peace keeping role.

4. Lybia, well ask Gaddafi.

5. Iraq, were you hybernating these last 20 years?

6. Afghanistan (explained above)

7. Syria, before the Syrian civil war Asssd was in control of whole Syria. But now US has bases all over Syria with its allies. The Americans can easily keep these bsses where it not for crazy Trump.

8. Ukraine, well, Ukraine is now 100% anti-Russia save for some parts in the East. I would say, if Ukraine is planned by America, its a f#cking brillant move without America getting its hands dirty. Russia hss lost its most powerful and biggest ally in Ukraine!

So again, please read, read, and read more. Stop watching RT.

My original point: They go in boasting pompously, then drag on the war for years, then runs away abandoning their regional allies & leaving the country they were trying to "help" as a war-torn shithole.
I am sure you agree that Iraq, Syria, Libya are all shitholes now that they've received America's "help". Before there was much more stability. Taliban controls most of Afghanistan today and N.Korea still... well, exists. Thus USA failed what USSR eventually achieved in Vietnam, unification under allied govt.

US is too large force to be crushed & come back home like whipped dogs. But what's the point winning battles, if they're gonna fail the long-term objective in every single war.
If they go to war in Ukraine, Donbass will ultimately be under complete Russian control as Crimea already is.

 

[asianobserve]

My original point: They go in boasting pompously, then drag on the war for years, then runs away abandoning their regional allies & leaving the country they were trying to "help" as a war-torn shithole.
I am sure you agree that Iraq, Syria, Libya are all shitholes now that they've received America's "help". Before there was much more stability. Taliban controls most Afghanistan today and N.Korea still... well, exists.

US is too large force to be crushed & come back home like whipped dogs. But what's the point winning battles, if theyre gonna fail the long-term objective in every single war.
Is going to win in Ukraine Donbass will ultimately be under complete Russian control, as Crimea already is.

Pompously? Runaway? Sounds like RT.

Anyway, America is still in SoKor after 70 years. It's back in Vietnam; back in Somalia with bases (but not anymore as s UN peacekeeper); still working with allies to salvage Lybian peace; still in Iraq and had just defeated ISIS there; still in Syria despite Trumps attempts to pull out; still in Afghanistan (but admittedly this one is a hard and very expensive commitment for US); and definitely now in Ukraine busy turning the Ukrsinian militsry into a US-NATO compatible force.

And FYI, American forces are also in former Warsaw countries in the Baltics, Poland and other slavic Eastern European countries.

So please get your facts straight. And please stop watching RT!

 

[Bleh]

Sounds like RT.

What is RT?

I was talking mostly about the end result. Only Vietnam & South Korea are stable nations today... Rest had gone to shit (not the Baltic countries, the ones that saw war).

 

[asianobserve]

BTW, it's funny how RT echochambers are falsely claiming Russia is winning or won in Ukraine. Russia 5 years ago still had an iron grip over the whole Ukraine. Now it has patches of territoroes in the east while the rest of mainstream Ukraine has gone full American.

 

[Armand2REP]

French just want 1 thing, money. Macron would even sell the hyde of his mother to Putin and Salman. No wonder the German's are feeling uneasy wofking with French in FCAS.

The German left doesn't want to make weapons at all. They are the reason the German MIC is crumbling before their eyes. KSA and Turkey are two of their largest arms importers and with the arms embargo, German defence companies are losing money. French investors are coming in to save them from extinction. H&K is now French, Thyssenkrupp Marine will be next. The golden egg is MTU. German export policy has really hurt both and being taken over by the French would help them sell more products.

 

[asianobserve]

What is RT?

I was talking mostly about the end result. Only Vietnam & South Korea are stable nations today... Rest had gone to shit (not the Baltic countries, the ones that saw war).

Well America helped stabilize Syria or atvpeast parts of it after ISIS took advantage of its civil war (although I'm not entirely sure America wants Syria stabilized like before the civil war). Somalia is getting better slowly. Lybia is a mess but it's civil war. Ukraine is rebuilding.

But Poland, the Baltics and some Eastern European countries who went to the US are definitely doing a lot better than under Russia.