France, Russia, and the Mistral Saga

[TrueSpirit1]

@Neil, big surface ships are no use to Russia. Where will Russia use them???

This ship was for showoff. The period of showoff is over for Russia.

Russia will go back to the Soviet strategy that was formulated in the closing years of USSR.

sea-denial, you mean ?

 

[Gabriel92]

The russian sialors left ST Nazaire without the mistral. :thumb:

 

[pmaitra]

So, the Russian sailors left St. Nazaire without the Mistral. I hope France has enough money to pay the fine.

Looks like the French defence minister also left Delhi without the Rafale deal.

I suppose India realized the risks of dealing with a country that has surrendered its sovereignty. This isn't the first time France bent over. Last time it was with Argentina.

Rafale Deal Nosedives in Negotiation Combat - The New Indian Express
Rafale deal deadlock

 

[Gabriel92]

So, the Russian sailors left St. Nazaire without the Mistral. I hope France has enough money to pay the fine.

Do not worry for us,we'll have to give to them the 800 millions that they already paid,and 250 millions in case of non delivery.
And not 3-10 billions like russian medias crap said. :thumb:
Canceling the Mistral deal will have no influence over India buying 126 Rafale aircrafts,that's just BS.
And if we cancel that deal,it would open doors for 13 billion tenders in Poland. :thumb:
We prefer lose even 2 billions than 13 billions. :thumb:

 

[pmaitra]

Do not worry for us,we'll have to give to them the 800 millions that they already paid,and 250 millions because we canceled the deal.
And not 3-10 billions like russian medias crap said. :thumb:

What is the source of your numbers?

 

[Gabriel92]

What is the source of your numbers?

I will try to re-find them.
Also,Putin said that Russia will just ask for the money that they already paid. :thumb:

BPC/Russie : M. Poutine demandera seulement le remboursement des sommes déjà payées en cas de non livraison - Zone Militaire

 

[pmaitra]

I will try to re-find them.
Also,Putin said that Russia will just ask for the money that they already paid. :thumb:

BPC/Russie : M. Poutine demandera seulement le remboursement des sommes déjà payées en cas de non livraison - Zone Militaire

Ok, so that means Mistral will be up for sale to other countries for rock bottom prices. Who will buy it? It is built to Russian specifications and with everything written in Russian.

I like the possibility of India acquiring it, but India can build one of its own in India.

 

[Gabriel92]

Ok, so that means Mistral will be up for sale to other countries for rock bottom prices. Who will buy it? It is built to Russian specifications and with everything written in Russian.

I like the possibility of India acquiring it, but India can build one of its own in India.

We can easily modify the specifications of these ships.
They will probably be for sale with discount... and we will probably find some buyers.

 

[Meriv90]

I will try to re-find them.
Also,Putin said that Russia will just ask for the money that they already paid. :thumb:

BPC/Russie : M. Poutine demandera seulement le remboursement des sommes déjà payées en cas de non livraison - Zone Militaire

Also,De Gaulle refused to deliver ships and Mirages to Israel,and it didn't affect anything.

And strangely your intelligence services couldn't stop them from copying it...

 

[Gabriel92]

Lol,here's a "little version" of the mistral.... 'Ivan gren',
Construction on the first Ivan Gren, built in Russia's Yantar Shipbuilding plant, began in 2004 and after several delays is expected to enter service with the Russian navy in 2015.
they have been building it for 10 years (lol) now and it is still not ready, looks crappy and rusty. Its technology is surely completely outdated now. On the other side, Russia, to put pressure on France claims that it can easily build a Mistral right now and does not really need the French one. :thumb:

 

[Meriv90]

my solution would have been selling them the minstral and using the money earned to donate to baltic countries MBDA anti ship missiles.

So you don't loose money you double the jobs created by nullyifing the vantage.

 

[Gabriel92]

What is the source of your numbers?

Une rupture de contrat, cela entraîne aussi des frais de pénalité : 251 millions d'euros en l'occurrence.

Annuler le contrat d'armement du Mistral, combien �a co�te ? - Economie - MYTF1News

+800 millions that they already paid.

 

[Ray]

Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

Sputnik News

In-Depth Coverage
17:08 01.01.2015(updated 17:55 01.01.2015)

A respected ceasefire and a political roadmap in Ukraine could break the impasse in the Russia-France Mistral deal.

MOSCOW, January 1 (Sputnik) – A stable ceasefire and a political roadmap for crisis settlement in Ukraine are needed for the delivery of Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia, French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said Thursday.

'This [Mistral delivery] is not possible in view of the conflict, the difficulties encountered in Ukraine. There needs to be in this part of Europe"¦ a respected ceasefire and a political roadmap,' Le Drian told Europe-1 radio station.

According to the terms of the $1.5-billion contract signed in June 2011, Paris was due to deliver the first of the two Mistral-class helicopter carriers, the Vladivostok, to the Russian Navy by November 14. However, French President Francois Hollande put the transfer on hold, citing Russia's alleged role in the ongoing Ukrainian crisis.

Moscow has repeatedly denied its involvement in the Ukrainian conflict and warned Paris that it would face large penalties should it fail to deliver on its contractual obligations.

The current Ukrainian crisis escalated in April 2014 when Kiev launched a military operation to suppress the independence supporters of Luhansk and Donetsk Regions who refused to recognize the coup-imposed central government.

A much-awaited ceasefire agreement, brokered by Russia and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, was signed between the conflicting sides in September. Following the implementation of the ceasefire, both Kiev and the DPR and LPR authorities have repeatedly accused each other of violating the truce.
Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

One has to be careful getting into deals with France.

 

[Gabriel92]

Re: Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

We will never deliver them,i don't know why some people are still dreaming.
If Russia didn't invade/attack Ukraine,those mistrals would have been delivered ...
They can just blame themselves..
Didn't russia refuse to deliver S300s to Iran/Syria ? Lol. That's the same thing.

 

[Ray]

Re: Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

We will never deliver them,i don't know why some people are still dreaming.
If Russia didn't invade/attack Ukraine,those mistrals would have been delivered ...
They can just blame themselves..
Didn't russia refuse to deliver S300s to Iran/Syria ? Lol. That's the same thing.

I hope you understand something about contracts.

Failing to deliver is a BREACH in contract.

Since France appears to be unreliable basing issues on whims, the Rafael deal with India is being re-considered.

$30 billion loss for France and unemployment in the French defence sector will soar in an already chaotic and down-sliding economy of France.

Russia cancelled S 300 to Syria and Iran because of UN arms embargo.

What excuse does France have? Their own dreamt up vision of morality? Since when was France moral?

 

[Otm Shank2]

Re: Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

I don't see how anyone who has a choice would pick french equipment over any other after this. It's a pattern of behavior since the falklands episode...

 

[jouni]

Re: Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

Mistral is great example of united Europe. Russians have served the wind, now they will reap the whirlwind. Poland has shown example, from one of the poorest countries in Europe to holder of top EU post of President of the European Council Donald Tusk. Same path can be possible to Ukraine also. ( And for Russia, if their people wake up, which I doubt they will ).

I wonder what will happen to Chinas and Indians support to poorer Russia. When they have to choose between one billion rich consumers of west for their products and 140 million poor Russians. Choise is easy.

 

[Gabriel92]

Re: Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

I hope you understand something about contracts.

Failing to deliver is a BREACH in contract.

Since France appears to be unreliable basing issues on whims, the Rafael deal with India is being re-considered.

$30 billion loss for France and unemployment in the French defence sector will soar in an already chaotic and down-sliding economy of France.

Russia cancelled S 300 to Syria and Iran because of UN arms embargo.

What excuse does France have? Their own dreamt up vision of morality? Since when was France moral?

Workers from the shipyard should not worry as the order book of their company is full until 2020.
On December 4,Two additional cruise ships representing a total of 11 million hours of work were added to the STX's list of orders.
The last two years, 250 jobs have been created. Only a small part of the STX workers are still working on finishing the second Mistral. ,thanks to new huge American orders for civil ships,RCCL has also two ocean liners beeing built right now in St Nazaire: Oasis III and IV. St nazaire has no concerns about employment.
Thank you for caring.

 

[tarunraju]

Re: Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

We will never deliver them,i don't know why some people are still dreaming.
If Russia didn't invade/attack Ukraine,those mistrals would have been delivered ...
They can just blame themselves..
Didn't russia refuse to deliver S300s to Iran/Syria ? Lol. That's the same thing.

Let me get this straight. You don't want to deliver a WARship which you took money for, because you fear it will be used for....war?

 

[Ray]

Re: Firm Truce in Ukraine Needed for Mistral Delivery to Russia: Paris

30 billions ? What did you smoke ?
Also,workers from the shipyard should not worry as the order book of their company is full until 2020.
On December 4,Two additional cruise ships representing a total of 11 million hours of work were added to the STX's list of orders.
The last two years, 250 jobs have been created. Only a small part of the STX workers are still working on finishing the second Mistral. ,thanks to new huge American orders for civil ships,RCCL has also two ocean liners beeing built right now in St Nazaire: Oasis III and IV. St nazaire has no concerns about employment.
Thank you for caring.

I smoke Wills if that helps you.

Are you Quickgun Murugun?

Yes, $ 30 billion.

Since it appears that there are ants in your pants, you have failed to see the context and instead jumped to be a wiseacre. The line above that figure in that post states Rafael deal.

It was in reply to your

We will never deliver them,i don't know why some people are still dreaming.
If Russia didn't invade/attack Ukraine,those mistrals would have been delivered ...
They can just blame themselves..
Didn't russia refuse to deliver S300s to Iran/Syria ? Lol. That's the same thing.

Here is the report on the Rafael deal with France

To be sure, the most significant aspect of the Rafale deal is the cost. Originally pegged at $10 billion, the size of the deal has climbed to a stratospheric $30 billion.
http://in.rbth.com/blogs/2014/10/26/why_india_needs_to_rethink_the_rafale_deal_39297.html