France, Russia, and the Mistral Saga

[jouni]

Re: French officials said they will not deliver the first Mistral ship

They have managed so far without your good luck, two of them since the 1980s, but thanks nonetheless. Is this supposed to be related to your excuse about people not going to Finland because it is freezing out there?

Just wanted to be polite, knowing the hard times ahead in Russia. Economy in Finland is not booming now, that is why not so many people are coming.

 

[sgarg]

Re: French officials said they will not deliver the first Mistral ship

Don't become the new Myanmar of your region, and you will be fine with the French.

You are on the wrong discussion board. Let me make a few points:

1. Finland is NOT important to India.
2. You have no idea of India. You write just for the sake of writing. I am not able to understand the purpose of your posts.
3. You think Finland can take on Russia. You should get your head examined.

Rafale or not - it simply does not concern Finland. Why you worry??

 

[pmaitra]

Re: French officials said they will not deliver the first Mistral ship

Just wanted to be polite, knowing the hard times ahead in Russia. Economy in Finland is not booming now, that is why not so many people are coming.

Two of my relatives have lived through the collapse of the USSR, and are still there in Moscow. They are more Russian than Indian, today. My friend's sister went in the early 2000s. She showed me pictures of her playing football on the Volga. She loves Tver.

My college friend got a job in Nokia, and lived in Finland for a few years. I am not in touch with him. When I was, he told me that he liked Finland.

 

[sgarg]

Re: French officials said they will not deliver the first Mistral ship

The Mistral issue is between Russia and France.

There is no consideration in India based on Mistral issue. However reputation of a supplier (in this case DCNS) is important. If the supplier is affected by political pressure, then the reputation of that supplier goes down.

 

[tarunraju]

Re: French officials said they will not deliver the first Mistral ship

The next French gas bill to Russia will be 1.2b EUR more than it should be, I guarantee it.

 

[Razor]

Re: French officials said they will not deliver the first Mistral ship

The Mistral issue is between Russia and France.

There is no consideration in India based on Mistral issue. However reputation of a supplier (in this case DCNS) is important. If the supplier is affected by political pressure, then the reputation of that supplier goes down.

DCNS is French government owned. Not reliable.

 

[josh67]

Re: French officials said they will not deliver the first Mistral ship

I has done that now....pls check

 

[pmaitra]

First Mistral helicopter carrier may set out for Russia on November 15 to 20 — source

PARIS, October 28. /TASS/. First Mistral-type helicopter carrier for Russian Navy may set out to the country between November 15 and 20, a source in French delegation told TASS at the international naval show Euronavale-2014 on Tuesday.

"The Vladivostok helicopter carrier may leave Saint-Nazaire and go to Russia between November 15 and 20," the source said.

France denies Russia warship delivery reports

France has denied reports that it is ready to go ahead with the controversial delivery of a helicopter carrier to the Russian navy.

Dmitry Rogozin, a senior Russian defence official, tweeted earlier that an invitation had been received to a November handover ceremony.

Dmitry Rogozin tweeted an image of an apparent invitation to the handover of the Vladivostok

 

[pmaitra]

NATO has no money, capability to buy out Russia-bound Mistral warships – source

NATO doesn't have the necessary funds to meet the demands of US lawmakers and purchase French-built Mistral warships in order to prevent Russia from getting the vessels, a military source said.

"NATO's budget is too small to not only purchase Russia-ordered Mistral helicopter carriers, but to even compensate France half of the penalties in accordance with the contract," a military source in Brussels, Belgium told TASS news agency.

NATO's military and civilian budget for 2014 amounts $ 1.6 billion, while the penalty for non-delivery of the two Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia could reach $ 3 billion, the source explained.

"Moreover, NATO simply doesn't have a structure that that could receive the ships. The Alliance has almost no military equipment of its own. So there would be no use in the helicopter carriers even if the money to purchase them is found," the source said.

The idea of buying the Mistral vessels is "absurd from a military point of view" because the ships are "custom-built in accordance with Russian standards, which makes their use by NATO highly problematic and will require additional, expensive refitting," he stressed.

The source has called the proposal by the US senators "a purely political project, in which NATO as an organization is physically unable to participate."

Many of the lawmakers in the US appear to say things they have little understanding about.

 

[sorcerer]

French invitation for Russia to attend Mistral warship handover on November 14 still valid


A French invitation for a Russian official delegation to attend the delivery ceremony of the Vladivistok helicopter carrier in France on 14 November has not been voided, Russian Minister of Industry and Trade Denis Manturov said Sunday, implying that the handover could still take place soon.

Answering a journalist's question on the situation around the Mistral-class warship, the minister said that "the invitation has not been withdrawn, and the man [responsible for the delivery] has been dismissed. What to make of it? It is up to you."

It was reported earlier that French arms industry company DCNS dismissed Yves Destefanis, a project director responsible for the handover of the Mistral helicopter carrier to Russia.

He was sacked after French Finance Minister Michel Sapin claimed that conditions for the handover of the first of two Mistral carriers to Russia had not been met. Herve Guillou, the CEO of DCNS, made an official statement regarding the dismissal on October 31, saying Destefanis had allegedly "caused damaging consequences" to the company, according to the French newspaper Les Echos.

Russian Deputy Minister Dmitry Rogozin said earlier that Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport had been invited to France to attend the official handover ceremony of the first Mistral carrier in mid-November.

Russia and France signed the €1.2 billion ($1.5 billion) deal for the two Mistral-class ships in June 2011. Since then, the deal has been in jeopardy after the West started implementing economic sanctions against Russia over the Ukrainian crisis.

source:French invitation for Russia to attend Mistral warship handover on November 14 still valid - News - Politics - Russian Radio

 

[asianobserve]

French-Built Mistral Ships For Russia Could End Up In Canadian Hands

The Canadian military has emerged as a potential destination for the controversial French-built Mistral helicopter carrier ships, built for Russia and now at the center of an international row after France indicated it would not hand them over, in response to international indignation over Russian actions in Ukraine.

The possibility of a Canadian solution appeared in French media after French President François Hollande began a state visit to Canada this week. While Hollande has yet to make a decision on whether Russia has met the criteria to receive the ships, the presence in the French delegation to Canada of the diplomatic advisor to the chairman of DCNS, the company that manufactures the ships, offers the first indication that France could actively be seeking an alternative buyer.

These ships would be marvelous in Indian Navy's hands...

 

[sorcerer]

US Lawmakers Press NATO Secretary General To Buy Ships Meant for Russia

WASHINGTON — Eight US lawmakers are pressing NATO's new secretary general to purchase French warships currently bound for Russia.

France has faced pressure to cancel a transaction that would deliver two Mistral-class amphibious and helicopter carrier ships to Moscow since Russia seized the Crimea region of Ukraine and territory in that former Soviet state's eastern half. French President François Hollande is set to decide the fate of the deal this month.

As he reaches a decision, eight US House members are trying to sell him on an alternative.

"Sensitive to the financial burden that France may incur should it rightly refuse to transfer these warships to Russia, we renew our call that NATO purchase or lease the warships as a common naval asset," the lawmakers wrote to alliance Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg.

"Such a decisive move by NATO is not without precedent and would show [Russian] President [Vladimir] Putin that our rhetorical resolve is matched by our actual resolve and that this Alliance will not tolerate or abet his dangerous actions in Europe," states the Nov. 4 letter.

The lawmakers had sent a similar letter to Stoltenberg's predecessor, and said Russia's actions since have only strengthened their call for the West to buy the ships.

"Russian government actions have only heightened our concern over this potential transfer and strengthened our resolve to oppose it while exploring creative and constructive options to promote unity among our allies at a time when, to quote "¦ Hollande, Russia's actions 'contravene the fundamental principles of European security'," they wrote.

Because of continued Russian aggression in Ukraine, the US members told Hollande that "such a transfer should be unthinkable, at the moment, and for as long as Russia's government maintains its threatening posture toward NATO and occupies territories in neighboring European countries in gross violation of international law."

House Foreign Affairs Committee ranking member Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y.; House Armed Services Tactical Air and Land Forces subcommittee Chairman Rep. Mike Turner, R-Ohio; HASC Strategic Forces subcommittee Chairman Rep. Mike Rogers, R-Ala.; as well as Reps. Bill Keating, D-Mass.; Gerry Connolly, D-Va.; Steve Chabot, R-Ohio; Steve Cohen, D-Tenn.; and Jim Gerlach, R-Pa., signed the letter.

In Ukraine, political parties keen to boost ties to Western Europe were returned to parliament by electors on Oct. 26, and talks are being held to form a coalition government, Reuters reported. More than 3,700 lives have been lost since April, as Ukrainian and pro-Russian forces fight for control in the eastern region, the news agency reported.

Hollande has set two conditions for the handover: a cease-fire in Ukraine and a political settlement between Kiev and Moscow.

Source:US Lawmakers Press NATO Secretary General To Buy Ships Meant for Russia | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[sorcerer]

The Mistral anatomy

 

[sgarg]

Good riddance Mistral. Useless for Russia anyway. A refund is better option.

 

[Neil]

These ships would be marvelous in Indian Navy's hands...

India wont buy it even if we get a discount. Geo politics...

Good riddance Mistral. Useless for Russia anyway. A refund is better option.

elaborate please? !

 

[sgarg]

@Neil, big surface ships are no use to Russia. Where will Russia use them???

This ship was for showoff. The period of showoff is over for Russia.

Russia will go back to the Soviet strategy that was formulated in the closing years of USSR.

 

[sorcerer]

Mistral class amphibious assault ship Almost 60% of French Citizens in Favor of Mistral Delivery to Russia: Poll

Over 76,000 of French citizens have taken part in an online public opinion poll on Mistral-class helicopter carriers delivery to Russia.

PARIS, November 15 (Sputnik) — Fifty-eight percent of French citizens, who have been questioned by French newspaper Le Figaro, say that Paris should meet its obligations under a contract to deliver two Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia.

According to Le Figaro website, over 76,000 people have taken part in an online public opinion poll so far.

Russia and France signed a 1.2 billion euro ($1.5 billion at the current exchange rate) deal for two Mistral-class ships in June 2011. The first carrier, the Vladivostok, is expected in Russia by the end of 2014. The second ship, the Sevastopol, is supposed to arrive in 2015.

The completion of the deal has been at risk since the West started implementing targeted economic sanctions against Russia over the Ukrainian crisis. French President Francois Hollande threatened to suspend the deliveries of the ships, citing alleged involvement of Russia in the Ukrainian conflict – a claim that Moscow repeatedly denied.

Moscow stated that if the contact was cancelled, Paris would have to pay a large penalty. Russia also said that if anything went wrong, the country would be able to build an analogue to the Mistral by itself.


Source:Almost 60% of French Citizens in Favor of Mistral Delivery to Russia: Poll / Sputnik international

 

[Virendra]

This deal was soaked in hurdles, politics and controversies from the start. As if the apprehension and history between Europe and Russia wasn't enough, that the US/NATO had to meddle in.
By the way, almost every word on that Ship is written in Russian. Whoever wants to buy it, have got their hands full of the linguistic riddle.
And does France really have a reliable alternate buyer? If not, is the deficit French economy ready to pay penalties and see prospective jobs in France fiddle away?

As for the use of Mistrals for Russia, it is not actually the amphibious assault capability that they're looking for; but the latest command and control systems plus the modular ship building technologies that they intend to learn from the JV building of these ships at Russian shipyard. The real value lies in re-use i.e. re-application of that elsewhere.
Mistral is not an amphibious capability building project for Russia, but an opportunity for Technological leap in areas where they've stagnated.

Ball lies in the french court, torn between international pressure and local economic aspirations.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[cobra commando]

France postpones Mistral delivery to Russia over Ukraine 'until further notice'

 

[jouni]

France postpones Mistral delivery to Russia over Ukraine 'until further notice'

Pursuing aggressive foreign policy and use of force again neighbors, and had to do it with foreign sourced weapons. Russia has sinken really low. Russian has no capacity to produce high tech weaponry at the scale its politics needs, too much of the arms industry has disappeared or are obsolite. France is showing some backbone, Vive la france!