France, Russia, and the Mistral Saga

[asianobserve]

ofcourse its because of the Tasarist physche of the Russians, the US is such a peace loving country, it wouldn't EVER think of invading weak nations like Iraq, Libya, Vietnam , Korea, Iran, Cuba, Afghanistan, Serbia...........let alone other nations which challange them, and are the sole choice of other weaker countries to buy defence eqpt to defend themselves

Another's wrong does not justify the commission of a wrong.

But in all those instances that the US has been gung ho the US did not annex any of those countries. Russia on the otehr hand invades to add to their territory, worse they invade their neighbors that they call brothers... But for a closer look at your list:

1. Iraq - We'll after Iraq (Saddam) invaded Kuwait it has become a clear danger to its neighbors. Practically everybody from Iran to Saudi to minorities within Iraq wants (privately, publicly they were against American meddling in the region) the US to remove Saddam. In fact the biggest beneficiary of the removal of Saddam is? Yes, Iran.

2. Libya - It was the French that spearheaded the effort to remove Gaddafi. The Americans simply went along with it.

3. Vietnam - It was the height of the Cold War between the US and USSR. The Americans mistakenly thought they were containing the spread of communism in Vietnam when in fact they were fighting an independence movement.

4. Korea - The same, it was the start of Cold War and naturally the Western powers will resist and advance of communist regimes. And knowing now how crude, pathetic, unstable and dangerous the Kims' cult in North Korea has grown I think Asia owes the US and UN a lot for containing North Korea.

5. Iran - The US did not invade Iran.

6. Afghanistan - What would you want the US to do when Afghanistan's Taliban was protecting Al Qaeda as the latter plots and executes terror operations in America? You'll be the most irresponsible American leader if you do not act to neutralise Al Qaeda in Afghanistan seeing what happened in 911 when you have the capacity to do so (but I doubt you care about 911, you might be one of those who believes that it was a false flag ops of the CIA).

7. Serbia - Again, what will America do when Europeans cannot stop the genocide that is happening in Europe? Help. Blame it on Melosevic and Mladic why the Western powers have to intervene in Serbia. Anyway, you seem to be carrying a lonely crusade here since even Serbians seem to agree with the actions of the Western powers against Melosevic in the 90's as Serbia is now set to join the EU.

 

[Mad Indian]

4. Korea - The same, it was the start of Cold War and naturally the Western powers will resist and advance of communist regimes. And knowing now how crude, pathetic, unstable and dangerous the Kims' cult in North Korea has grown I think Asia owes the US and UN a lot for containing North Korea.

This is something even the hardcore commies have to accept as truth!

 

[Mad Indian]

The USSR became a superpower by expanding and annexing other countries (territories, people and resources of other countries). It also had a powerful ideology in communism on its rise to superpowerdom. Now Russia has neither satellites (or countries forcibly held under its sphere like POland, etc.) and ideology. It's population is decreasing and a lot of its young and talented people are migrating to other countries.

So Communism helped USSR becoming a superpower?

A Democratic capitalist USSR would have out spent and overpowered US anyday with its raw power! USSR could never realise its full potential because of communism and its resultant bureaucratic mess. It certainly did not become a superpower because of it!

 

[asianobserve]

So Communism helped USSR becoming a superpower?

It's not that I agree with communism, we share the same attitude/understanding against it. What I was saying was that communism provided a very convincing ideology to Russians in expanding their Soviet Empire into a superpower. It provided the political, economic and social structure within which all the countries that were brought under it (stealthily and forcibly in a lot of cases) were oriented to. Unlike during Soviet times, Russia now do not have a compelling ideology or excuse if you will to use in its expansion or even the maintenance of an "imperialist sphere." Russia right now is closest to imperial times (with the people closest to Putin, and Putin himself, getting the lion share of the wealth from Russia's natural resources) than Soviet model or liberal democracies.

 

[AbhishekDas]

India also should go for Mistral class LHD as it matches all criteria of Indian Navy's Multi-Role Support Vessel Programme.

 

[Gabriel92]

We exported military stuff for more than €8 billions
And this year seems to begin well,with probably the contract with Egypt (Rafales,Fremm for more than €5 billions).....

Les exportations françaises d'équipements militaires ont progressé de 17,3% en 2014 - Zone Militaire

 

[Sylex21]

Lol you seem excited. Congratulations

 

[Gabriel92]

Lol you seem excited. Congratulations

Sure i am,and because some members here were saying that with the Mistral SAGA,this will have an impact on our military exports. LOL,where are @sgarg @pmaitra ?

 

[Gabriel92]

We should make a decision as quick as possible,Yes or No.

If no,we should give the 1st to our navy and try to sell the 2nd.

Conditions Still Not Satisfied for Mistral Deliveries - Hollande

BRUSSELS (Sputnik) – French President Francois Hollande has announced that conditions for the delivery of Mistral helicopter carriers to Russia are still not right.
"The conditions [for Mistral deliveries] are still not satisfied. I hope they will be one day," Hollande told reporters Thursday, after an informal summit of EU leaders in Brussels.

Earlier on Thursday, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius announced that the implementation of the Mistral contract was still on hold.
In 2011, Russian state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and French shipbuilder DCNS agreed a $1.5 billion deal on the delivery of two Mistral-class helicopter carriers to Russia.

Paris was to deliver the first helicopter carrier last November, but the delivery did not take place. Hollande said the shipment was suspended due to Russia's alleged involvement in the Ukrainian crisis.
Russia now expects France to either deliver the warships or return the money.
Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu announced in January that Moscow could file a court case against France in the next six months over the failure of Paris to deliver the first Mistral ship.

Conditions Still Not Satisfied for Mistral Deliveries - Hollande / Sputnik International

The Mistral-Class Helicopter Carrier [InfoGraphic]

The Mistral-Class Helicopter Carrier / Sputnik International

 

[Gabriel92]

Russia Sees Little Chance of Getting Mistral Warships From France – Report


The probability of two French-built Mistral-class warships being delivered to the Russian navy remains low, but discussions between Paris and Moscow are ongoing, an unidentified source in Russia's Defense Ministry told Interfax on Friday.

"From the character of these communications it is clear that there is practically no hope that the situation will be resolved and Russia will receive the Mistrals after all. I would put the odds at 99 to 1," Interfax quoted the source as saying.

"This is absolutely not a tragedy for us "¦ The combat readiness of our fleet will not suffer from such a 'sequestration'," the source added.

Over recent months, scores of Russian officials have claimed that the loss of the Mistral carriers will not be a major blow to the Russian navy, but that France needs to pay up for failing to make good on the 1.2 billion euro ($1.3 billion) contract.

The first Mistral warship was supposed to be delivered to the Russian navy last November, but France in September chose to suspend the deal in response to Moscow's support for separatist rebels in eastern Ukraine.

Russia Sees Little Chance of Getting Mistral Warships From France – Report | Business | The Moscow Times

 

[Gabriel92]

France will hand back the payment to Russia in case of non delivery of the Mistrals

"All assumptions" regarding the delivery of the Mistral will be discussed during his meeting with Putin, says Francois Hollande.
To an exit in the crisis of Russian Mistral? "All assumptions" regarding the delivery of the Mistral will be discussed during his meeting with Putin in Yerevan scheduled for Friday, Hollande said Tuesday at a joint press conference with his Ukrainian counterpart Petro Poroshenko.
"And for the moment I said, Mistral of delivery is not in the context that we know possible." "If the ships do not come, I do not see how they can be paid, it's a simple concept (...) According to the different assumptions, you will pay or hand back the money" he added.

No compensation

France has suspended last year for an indefinite period of delivery of the first of the two buildings Projection and Command (BPC) bought by Russia under a contract of 1.2 billion euros, due to the Moscow's role in the Ukrainian crisis.

On the Russian television, Putin described the refusal to deliver the Mistral "bad sign." "The French are well-educated people, they will give us back the money. We will not charge fines, extravagant compensation. But the money spent must be repaid," he added.

Mistral : la France remboursera la Russie en cas de non-livraison, Aéronautique - Défense

 

[Gabriel92]

France and Russia are close to an agreement to cancel the contract for the delivery of two Mistral

YEREVAN, April 24 (Reuters) - France and Russia are close to an agreement to cancel the contract for the delivery of two Mistral ships and repayment of amounts already paid, according to Russian source close to the talks.

Mistral-Paris et Moscou proches d'une annulation du contrat | Reuters

 

[The enlightened]

France and Russia are close to an agreement to cancel the contract for the delivery of two Mistral

YEREVAN, April 24 (Reuters) - France and Russia are close to an agreement to cancel the contract for the delivery of two Mistral ships and repayment of amounts already paid, according to Russian source close to the talks.

Mistral-Paris et Moscou proches d'une annulation du contrat | Reuters

So what did France gain from this. (in exchange for now having an unfinished, possibly incompatible ship, which ultimately came from its own pocket)

 

[jouni]

So what did France gain from this. (in exchange for now having an unfinished, possibly incompatible ship, which ultimately came from its own pocket)

They gained respect and pride.

 

[Zebra]

http://www.english.rfi.fr/economy/20150515-france-offers-russia-refund-undelivered-mistrals-report

France offers Russia refund on undelivered Mistrals, report
By RFI
Friday 15 May 2015


France has offered to pay Russia 785 million euros to scrap a contract for two Mistral helicopter carriers, whose sale has been suspended over the Ukraine conflict, on condition that it can sell them to another country, a Moscow newspaper reported Friday.

The documents are now "being studied" by the Russian government, defence ministry and other relevant parties which participated in the 2011 deal, Russian defence sources told Kommersant newspaper.

Paris is ready to pay back almost 785 million euros if Moscow gives a written agreement that they can be sold to a third party, the paper reports.

But the same sources said that the Kremlin claims that it would lose 1,163 billion euros on the deal and is refusing to agree to the resale until it has been paid.

The contract, estimated to be worth 1.2 billion euros, was agreed in 2011 under the presidency of Nicolas Sarkozy and one of the boats, Vladivostok, should have been delivered last November.

Paris announced that month that delivery had been put off indefinitely because of Russia's involvement in the Ukraine conflict.

The Vladivostok and the other boat, the Sebastopol, are currently in the French port of Saint-Nazaire.

 

[Armand2REP]

So what did France gain from this. (in exchange for now having an unfinished, possibly incompatible ship, which ultimately came from its own pocket)

Well, the Navy always wanted 4 Mistrals but the +1 got cut in the last White Paper. Both these are reinforced for Arctic operations and increased hanger height for taller helos... i can see some advantages to taking one in. The other would have to be sold or we could swap the original Mistral and sell that at a discount. If we did that the entire amphibious fleet would only average 5yrs old.

 

[The enlightened]

Well, the Navy always wanted 4 Mistrals but the +1 got cut in the last White Paper. Both these are reinforced for Arctic operations and increased hanger height for taller helos... i can see some advantages to taking one in. The other would have to be sold or we could swap the original Mistral and sell that at a discount. If we did that the entire amphibious fleet would only average 5yrs old.

Didn't your Navy COS say you don't want another?

Edit: I see the Canadians as a possible buyer with all the mods.
OR
Maybe the Penguins can take it. They certainly need some amphibious assault capability.

 

[Armand2REP]

If we can sell both, we will sell them. If not we will have to take them into service. No way would we scrap new superior vessels to our own.

 

[sob]

This thread is 6 years old and is rotting. Closing this thread.

@Casper and @Armand2REP please open new thread if we have anything new to discuss.

 

[sorcerer]

France may sell to China naval ships built for Russia


During the course of a visit by the French Navy to Shanghai between May 9-15, France may try to sell its Mistral-class amphibious assault ship to China, according to Duowei News, an overseas new outlet run by overseas Chinese.

The official microblog of the PLA Navy said that the French task force visiting China consists of two warships including the Dixmude, a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship, and Aconit, a La Fayette-class frigate. Dixmude is the third and last Mistral-class vessel designed for the French navy. It is the first time for a Mistral-class amphibious assault ship to visit a Chinese port.

Russia signed a contract with France to purchase two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships but the deal was scuttled due to sanctions imposed over the Ukraine crisis, even though construction of both vessels — named the Vladivostok and, fittingly if ironically, Sevastopol — had been completed.

The French Navy is unlikely to commission the two new ships and one option choice would be to try to sell them to other potential buyers including Brazil, Canada, China, Egypt or India. Even though China already has plans to develop its own amphibious assault ship, the country may still purchase the Vladivostok and Sevastopol as models to copy.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150510000011&cid=1101