France India Strategic Relations With Naval Agenda

Bhoot Pishach

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It's a done deal....... only official confirmation and documentation will be done during French President visit now. Work already started and near completion...
Come on man !!!

Where is the sign on dotted lines?????

The tweets you posted are old before the memorandum was signed.

Just go through POSTS above.

They are still negotiating, nothing finalised till now.

I dont understand what they have to negotiate about the obligation which they have to fulfill for OFFSET CLAUSE.
 
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WolfPack86

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Is Eurocopter H 225M helicopter have been finalised for Indian Coast Guard?.
 

indus

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I dont understand what they have to negotiate about the obligation which they have to fulfill for OFFSET CLAUSE.
As far as I know we need tech support in the engine core only. Safran may not be willing to share sensitive tech like blade designs and metallurgy of alloys used which will make us independant in long run. ToT is given for screwdrivergiri only.
 

Bhoot Pishach

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As far as I know we need tech support in the engine core only. Safran may not be willing to share sensitive tech like blade designs and metallurgy of alloys used which will make us independant in long run. ToT is given for screwdrivergiri only.
Sir, my post which I replied some post little earlier, may suffice you.
Kindly also note!!!

We are not asking for any technology transfer. We are just asking for fine tuning of Kaveri which is almost complete, and having some issues with reheat oscillation issue with after burner.
Kindly note that Safran has said that Kaveri is almost there only 20% work has to be done.

Now what happened??
We were asking for help in fine tuning and some LAST MILE CONCEPTUAL DESIGN. Which we were ourselves not able solve, because of inexperience.

If we keep pursuing with our research we may solve the issue some year down the line.

The DSC and Blisk can be added latter when we able to develop them. These will help in increasing LIFE and PERFORMANCE of the engine.

Right now we need to DEBUG and CERTIFY the engine, hence need of Safran.

French very well know if they resolve the issue in OFFSET Clause there will be no $$$$.

They are trying to make some dollars by coming up with jargon "SAFRANISED KAVARI", with M88 core. But core of Kaveri is OK it has no issues, the issue is with AFTER BURNER (reheat oscillations), which we are not able to solve.
 
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WolfPack86

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France eyes two major military deal with India worth around 8 Billion

1) VSHORADS

Indian quest for Very Short Range Air Defence System where MBDA Mistral has been shortlisted for final trials along with Swedish SAAB RBS 70NG and Russia’s Igla-S.

2) 1500 155mm/52cal TGS where NEXTER TRAZAN is in crucial field trials against Elbit's offer
https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamINDRA/photos/?ref=page_internal
 

sthf

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There is no harm in subtle signaling. It helps counter the propaganda; like you said has been going on unchecked.
Actually there is quite a lot of harm. Russian ambassadors have to come out routinely in front of the media and remind Indians of the Russian contribution and it visibly pisses them off.

As far as Pakistan in Russian inner circle is concern then it is a reality. The stronger relationship may be in gestation and Russians will deliver it in installments or may be not, depending on overall situation.
As I said, there is no tangible evidence that suggests that unless you count sale of 4 outdated choppers as sign of an upcoming relationship.

Do you remember the sky high amount of bakchodi that happened over the unadulterated bullshit sale of Su-35s to Pakistan not just in media or social circles but the hysteria on this forum as well. The so called defence enthusiasts were cussing and abusing Russia for shit they didn't do without doing basic maths.

I am not being judgemental about Russian diplomacy as they will always follow their own interest but Indian must plan ahead vis a vis Pakistanis cosying up with Russians or vice versa.
Most major countries are playing the balancing game. Russia is well within its right to play the same. If they think they can get something out of Porkis then good for them.

French presidents like to take credit about Airbus contracts but that is just PR.
I think that's because Chancellor of Germany is busy creating a mosque construction industry in the country and nobody knows who Spain's president is (no offense to Spaniards). :yo:
 

hit&run

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Actually there is quite a lot of harm. Russian ambassadors have to come out routinely in front of the media and remind Indians of the Russian contribution and it visibly pisses them off.
What has India or Indian Government done against Russia that they are pissed off (according to you) ?

I have already mentioned nation control flow their friendship. The so called Friendships are numerical equations for them. It's never one lifetime done deal.

Russians look pissed off because they want to look pissed off. The reasons best known to them. Maybe they are justifying their relationship on China's call with Pakistan using an excuse that India is tilting towards USA.

There is another conspiracy theory that Sonia Gandhi is KGB tool and since she is ousted from the power, Russia started 'Ring-Fencing' its relationship with India.

Also one can clearly see the dichotomy post Crimea invasion Russia that now it has started to look less pragmatic who used to be sensitive for India's interests.

Post sanctions they have made strategic alliance with China whom they opposed their access to central asia, heck they even opposed TAPI but now themselves selling hydrocarbons to China and in return China is demanding Pakistan's entry into their fold.

As I said, there is no tangible evidence that suggests that unless you count sale of 4 outdated choppers as sign of an upcoming relationship.
It's in gestation. I said earlier.

Calling Mi-35M gunships outdated is nothing but an attempt to downplay the start of a relationship which was not there at all.

Do you remember the sky high amount of bakchodi that happened over the unadulterated bullshit sale of Su-35s to Pakistan not just in media or social circles but the hysteria on this forum as well. The so called defence enthusiasts were cussing and abusing Russia for shit they didn't do without doing basic maths.
The talk of Pakistan's poor economy by Indians has become sickeningly monotonous. It may be relevant adjudging Pakistan's many policy decisions but there is visible intent on part of Pakistan to embrace Russia at any cost.

Also my position is consistent. Either you show credible evidence that Pakistan never contemplated or Russia never discussed about SU-35 or learn to take things on their face value.

Any good strategist take claims made by an advisory seriously and start planning ahead. This is the best way out, if they are bluffing they just made the opponent alarmed unnecessarily.

TBH I had no remedy before for my concerns of Russia cosying up with Pakistan as I repeatedly asked Indian analysts to prepare for it. @Armand2REP talked about it but I couldn't understand that comment sans this reasoning but thought only it as Transactional. This particular article that you are opposing has the best title I have read in last few months.

Again I am not being censorious about Russians neither in awe of French strengthening the strategic partnership I am just trying to explain the fluidity of diplomacy.

Most major countries are playing the balancing game. Russia is well within its right to play the same. If they think they can get something out of Porkis then good for them.
Now you are contradicting your own point.
 
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aarav

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What has India or Indian Government done against Russia that they are pissed off (according to you) ?

I have already mentioned nation control flow their friendship. The so called Friendships are numerical equations for them. It's never one lifetime done deal.

Russians look pissed off because they want to look pissed off. The reasons best known to them. Maybe they are justifying their relationship on China's call with Pakistan using an excuse that India is tilting towards USA.

There is another conspiracy theory that Sonia Gandhi is KGB tool and since she is ousted from the power, Russia started 'Ring-Fencing' its relationship with India.

Also one can clearly see the dichotomy post Crimea invasion Russia that now it has started to look less pragmatic who used to be sensitive for India's interests.

Post sanctions they have made strategic alliance with China whom they opposed their access to central asia, heck they even opposed TAPI but now themselves selling hydrocarbons to China and in return China is demanding Pakistan's entry into their fold.



It's in gestation. I said earlier.

Calling Mi-35M gunships outdated is nothing but an attempt to downplay the start of a relationship which was not there at all.



The talk of Pakistan's poor economy by Indians has become sickeningly monotonous. It may be relevant adjudging Pakistan's many policy decisions but there is visible intent on part of Pakistan to embrace Russia at any cost.

Also my position is consistent. Either you show credible evidence that Pakistan never contemplated or Russia never discussed about SU-35 or learn to take things on their face value.

Any good strategist take claims made by an advisory seriously and start planning ahead. This is the best way out, if they are bluffing they just made the opponent alarmed unnecessarily.

TBH I had no remedy before for my concerns of Russia cosying up with Pakistan as I repeatedly asked Indian analysts to prepare for it. @Armand2REP talked about it but I couldn't understand that This particular article that you are opposing has the best title I have read in last few months.

Again I am not being censorious about Russians neither in awe of French strengthening the strategic partnership I am just trying to explain the fluidity of diplomacy.



Now you are contradicting your own point.
I agree with you ,Soviet Union prominent KGB defector Vasili Mitrokhin has published book about KGB operations around the world ,in his second edition he talks about Indian operations and said KGB operations in India were largest in Asia everyone from Politician,Babu, Diplomat and Army ,KGB agents were present ,its not a conspiracy theory ,you need to read about books published by Vasili Mitrokhin and he jokingly saying that anyone could be corrupted in India but after Modi ji accession to power ,Roos and its agents are pissed off not the other way around, I think the book's name is KGB and the battle for the third world
 
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sthf

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I have already mentioned nation control flow their friendship. The so called Friendships are numerical equations for them. It's never one lifetime done deal.
I didn't disagree with your statement. You are spot on with your assessment.

Russians look pissed off because they want to look pissed off. The reasons best known to them. Maybe they are justifying their relationship on China's call with Pakistan using an excuse that India is tilting towards USA.
What has India or Indian Government done against Russia that they are pissed off (according to you) ?
There is a long list why Russians are not feeling the love they think they deserve, rightfully or not.

Here is one point but do go through the interview.

The value of our business in military hardware with India is over USD 30 billion, more than India has with all other foreign partners put together.
https://www.rbth.com/economics/cooperation/2015/09/28/ties-with-pakistan-not-against-india_443441


There is another conspiracy theory that Sonia Gandhi is KGB tool and since she is ousted from the power, Russia started 'Ring-Fencing' its relationship with India.
Never found these conspiracy theories credible enough but can't ask you to not believe in them.

Also one can clearly see the dichotomy post Crimea invasion Russia that now it has started to look less pragmatic who used to be sensitive for India's interests.
Post sanctions they have made strategic alliance with China whom they opposed their access to central asia, heck they even opposed TAPI but now themselves selling hydrocarbons to China and in return China is demanding Pakistan's entry into their fold.
Baap bada na maiyya sabse bada rupiyya.

Russians have a lot oil & gas, Chinis wants a lot of oil & gas. Russians don't have much money, Chinis have a lot of it.

Russians are still trying to play the balancing game. Let's see how far it goes.

t's in gestation. I said earlier.

Calling Mi-35M gunships outdated is nothing but an attempt to downplay the start of a relationship which was not there at all.
Mi-35s are outdated. Trust me I am not downplaying anything. Mi-35s were superb but no major air force is looking forward to buying them in numbers including Russia's. If you

The talk of Pakistan's poor economy by Indians has become sickeningly monotonous. It may be relevant adjudging Pakistan's many policy decisions but there is visible intent on part of Pakistan to embrace Russia at any cost.
Also my position is consistent. Either you show credible evidence that Pakistan never contemplated or Russia never discussed about SU-35 or learn to take things on their face value.
Both are two different things.

1) Pakistan is free to contemplate QE class carriers too but reality comes in the way of wet dreams.

2) Did Russia contemplate selling Su-35s to Pakistan.

Russia is not engaged in negotiations on Su-35 fighter jets supply to Pakistan, Anatoly Punchuk, the deputy director of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), said Wednesday.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201610191046502648-su35-russia-pakistan/

I am open to be corrected.
Any good strategist take claims made by an advisory seriously and start planning ahead. This is the best way out, if they are bluffing they just made the opponent alarmed unnecessarily.
Bluffing is Pakistan's bread and butter. Please don't take this away from them.
TBH I had no remedy before for my concerns of Russia cosying up with Pakistan as I repeatedly asked Indian analysts to prepare for it. @Armand2REP talked about it but I couldn't understand that comment sans this reasoning but thought only it as Transactional. This particular article that you are opposing has the best title I have read in last few months.

Again I am not being censorious about Russians neither in awe of French strengthening the strategic partnership I am just trying to explain the fluidity of diplomacy.
Again. I didn't disagree.

Now you are contradicting your own point.
Am I? Please elaborate.
 

prohumanity

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Leave all other arguments aside...Just one fact ..that India-Russia can do trade of magnitude of 15 to 20 times compared to Paki-Russia trade.
As Russian economy is not doing that well these years...any Russian leader with any common sense will not choose Paki .
And what's the use of Paki except pissing off India. US did that for 60 years and regrets it now.

If that happens, Rusia loses a huge market for weapons and other trade , therefore ..rest assured Russia India partnership alive and well.

For Russia, it will not be India OR China...it will be India AND China!!!!
 

indiatester

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Leave all other arguments aside...Just one fact ..that India-Russia can do trade of magnitude of 15 to 20 times compared to Paki-Russia trade.
As Russian economy is not doing that well these years...any Russian leader with any common sense will not choose Paki .
And what's the use of Paki except pissing off India. US did that for 60 years and regrets it now.

If that happens, Rusia loses a huge market for weapons and other trade , therefore ..rest assured Russia India partnership alive and well.

For Russia, it will not be India OR China...it will be India AND China!!!!
Exactly.
During arguments people forget that nation states don't behave like individuals in relationships. The relations are complex as in the sale of Mi35 to Pakistan. It only only involves cultivating a relationship with Pakistan but maintaining a relationship with India as well.
Russians clearly know who buys their hardware and where the bigger market it. Its not just about the market also. Pakistanis have acted against (and are still quite proud of that fact) USSR and Russia in Afghanistan, Chechnya, former Yugoslavia and even now in CARs.
No one in Russia would think they would get a strategic advantage by alienating India and pandering to Pakistan. Russians are not that immature or stupid and you need to be both to make such a tilt.
 

aarav

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Macron in Delhi: Russia appears to be cooling towards India, can France replace it?
Published March 12, 2018 | By admin
SOURCE: TNN BLOG



French President Emmanuel Macron’s India visit has helped highlight a bilateral relationship that is far too understated for its own good. It is worth remembering that France was the only western nation that unambiguously supported India after its Pokhran II nuclear tests, refusing to impose any bilateral sanctions on New Delhi.

As of now, Macron has emerged as a key force behind the European Union and is looking to increase French heft in the international arena. Moreover, he does not appear to have the same kind of zero sum view of international relations that President Donald Trump or the Chinese might evince.

In this regard, the joint strategic vision for cooperation in the Indian Ocean Region reinforces each country’s desire to create a free and open architecture in the Indo-Pacific that secures maritime security and upholds freedom of navigation and overflight. Adding teeth to this strategic convergence is the agreement on reciprocal logistics support that will allow Indian and French forces to access each other’s ports and bases in the Indian Ocean Region.

After the Logistic Exchange Memorandum of Agreement with the US, the pact with France will increase options for Indian maritime operations in the Indo-Pacific, countering the threat of a potential Chinese encirclement of India. Macron did sound a discordant note in hard selling Rafale fighter jets to India, of which India has already agreed to buy 36 despite doubts in the country about the expense of the deal. He is a man of ideas and one hopes he sees more in the relationship with India than a transactionalist view where India is merely a market for expensive fighter jets or nuclear power plants.

In that regard the memorandum of understanding on mutual recognition of academic qualifications with India is an encouraging step, as is Macron attending the founding conference of the International Solar Alliance in Delhi with Prime Minister Narendra Modi. One hopes this can lead to transfer of technology and joint production deals in renewable energy and other high tech fields, as well as in stepped up trade and investment ties. With Russia seeming to cool its strategic partnership with India and warming up to China, it is worth exploring whether France might fill this gap in India’s international relations.
 

aarav

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Now Even Mainstream Media started talking of what I have been saying that Roos has acknowledged cheen as their partners and we need to accept and have a move on with others especially France ,MSM only talks like that when they sniff a policy change.
 

aarav

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Safran to set up unit in Telangana
Published March 12, 2018 | By admin
SOURCE: THE HINDU



Safran Electrical & Power, a global leader in electrical systems in aeronautics, would set up a unit for electrical wiring interconnection systems in Telangana.

The manufacturing facility, to be set up with an investment of ?52 crore in the Special Economic Zone of Hyderabad airport, is expected to create over 250 employment opportunities, said an official release on an MoU the firm and the Telangana government signed on Saturday.

Safran CEO Philippe Petitcolin and Telangana Industries Secretary Jayesh Ranjan signed the MoU in the presence of French Foreign Affairs Minister M.Le Drian, Union Commerce Minister Suresh Prabhu and Telangana IT and Industries Minister K.T. Rama Rao, at the Indo-French Economic Partnership signing ceremony in New Delhi.

“In the next twelve months, Safran Electrical & Power will deliver the first LEAP electric harnesses made in India and destined for the flourishing of narrow-body aircraft market,” the Safran Group said in a separate release. The Hyderabad facility would be an integral part of the Group’s strategy to establish itself in India to serve an “extremely buoyant local market as well as the existing European and American markets”.

Mr. Petitcolin said, “The new facility reasserts our commitment to products made in India and it completes our industrial grid in the region with a new, high performance production site.” Employing more than 13,000 people in 12 countries, Safran Electrical & Power is a part of the EUR 16.5 billion French multinational Safran Group that operates in the aircraft propulsion and equipment, space and defence markets.

The announcement on opening of the factory in India came in the backdrop of the visit of French President Emmanuel Macron. “The factory’s production will also make it possible to meet any potential needs of the programmes in which the Group is involved in, in the region,” the release said.

The State government would be facilitating Safran E&P and its affiliate Safran Electrical & Power India to obtain necessary permissions, registrations, approvals and clearances as per the existing facilities, rules and regulations.
 

Compersion

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i dont know the why someone i know keeps mentioning treaty of versailles, french recognition, and even contemporary frameworks of today, and other related inferences when they talk about India and France relations. we are getting closer and closer and the one action point i am looking at the is the level of TOT that do and collaborate on together in nuke, space, jet engine, car manufacturing (ev), car manufacturing (h-fuel), rocket engine, fighter jet production, naval forces and more. france has a aircraft carrier. fascinating.
 

prohumanity

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There is no major policy change as far as India's weapons procurement policy goes. Just today report from SIPRI says that in 2017, Russia was number one supplier of weapons to India with 62% of the total arms bought by India.

The new thing is that USA is now at second spot with 24% of India's arms import....Still far behind Russia.
Other difference is that Russia is supplying combat weapons whereas US is supplying mostly non combat weaponry such as transport planes like GlobeMaster etc.

Israel is at 3rd spot.

And remember ..this is the most recent SIPRI report available till date. Watch the hard facts and number and ignore the propaganda news.
 
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aarav

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There is no major policy change as far as India's weapons procurement policy goes. Just today report from SIPRI says that in 2017, Russia was number one supplier of weapons to India with 62% of the total arms bought by India.

The new thing is that USA is now at second spot with 24% of India's arms import....Still far behind Russia.
Other difference is that Russia is supplying combat weapons whereas US is supplying mostly non combat weaponry such as transport planes like GlobeMaster etc.

Israel is at 3rd spot.

And remember ..this is the most recent SIPRI report available till date. Watch the hard facts and number and ignore the propaganda news.
You can't change you armaments right away ,its a Soviet legacy and changing your armaments is gradual look at the other way round as till 2008 Russia was hovering around 90% and it has come down to 62% it is a gradual change and it only happens like that
 

prohumanity

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The real reason India did not have weapons from any other nation except Russia before 2008 is because no other nation was willing to sell to India or they were asking very high price.
Those nations were busy supplying outdated weapons to Pakistan either free or subsidized price. The hired Paki army had a use and that was to keep India against the wall.
Now,in last few years, India has grown strong and Paki has grown weak and poor. Paki does not serve those nations interest anymore so all those nations are now ready to sell weapons to India albeit second rate weapons.
Is anyone else ready to sell equals of S-400, Su30MKI, Nuclear Subs etc. Not yet. Therefore, in 2017 almost 62 percent weapons came from Russia.
 

aarav

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France’s Macron Wants Strategic Paris-Delhi-Canberra Axis
Published May 4, 2018 | By admin
SOURCE : REUTERS



French President Emmanuel Macron on Wednesday called for the creation of a new strategic alliance among France, India and Australia to respond to challenges in the Asia-Pacific region and the growing assertiveness of China.

On the second day of a visit to Australia, where he hopes to cement defence ties following the 2016 signing of a $38 billion megadeal to supply submarines to the Australian navy, Macron said the like-minded democracies should forge closer ties.

“We’re not naive: if we want to be seen and respected by China as an equal partner, we must organise ourselves,” Macron said in a speech at an Australian naval base.

Macron visited China in January, where he warned Beijing that its new “Silk Road” initiative should not be “one-way”.

He then flew to India in March, where he committed to strengthen a defence partnership that has already seen New Delhi buy French warplanes in 2016.

“This new Paris-Delhi-Canberra axis is absolutely key for the region and our joint objectives in the Indian-Pacific region,” Macron said.

His visit to Australia, only the second by a French president, comes amid heightened tensions in the Pacific, where France has numerous interests.

France has island territories spanning the Indo-Pacific: Reunion and Mayotte in the Indian Ocean, and Noumea, Wallis and Futuna and French Polynesia in the Pacific.

Australia and New Zealand have each separately warned that China is seeking to exert influence in the Pacific through its international aid programme, an allegation Beijing denies.
 

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