France formally recognises Libya's rebels

pmaitra

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Gaddafi prefers pitching a tent wherever he goes.

In any event, the last time Sarkozy did anything half useful was prevent a total breakdown of NATO-Russia relations after the Russo-Georgian War. However, I admire him for netting Bruni.
 

civfanatic

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Gods knows what goes on in those tents between Gadaffi and his Amazon bodyguards.
 

badguy2000

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it is stupid for France to provide open support to either one of two sides in one civil war,when the final of the civil war can not be clear yet.....

France would regret to do so soon,if rebel were to be defeated.

At that time, China would be happy to take over all unfinished investment and oil fields left by France...
 

sandeepdg

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Yes, after the embarrassing incident with the SAS, its clear that there are no foreign hands as yet in the revolt. Whatever leadership and organization they have is because a substantial number of the armed forces have joined the war against Gaddafi in eastern Libya, and I believe they are doing all the organization with the help of many senior government officials in Gaddafi's government who have switched over to the opposition side. If there had been foreign hands, then the rebels would have been much better armed than they currently are, and would have given a good fight at holding the key towns in the east of Libya. But their falling back, shows they lack organizational support on a mass scale as well as shortage of weapons.
 

sandeepdg

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it is stupid for France to provide open support to either one of two sides in one civil war,when the final of the civil war can not be clear yet.....

France would regret to do so soon,if rebel were to be defeated.

At that time, China would be happy to take over all unfinished investment and oil fields left by France...
It is a dangerous proposition, yes. But they are doing it since everybody else is just sitting on their a***s and discussing what to do. Its better to start helping the rebels so that they are not defeated, and Gaddafi is overthrown. Its stupid for the others to just sit around and keep deliberating when 6000 people have already lost their lives and many more will follow if Gaddafi forces are not controlled. You can forget about Chinese investments for the time being, because if the NATO intervenes, then they will make sure they take the cake and leave nothing for others. And what do you mean by the final of civil war is not clear ?? If you keep waiting to decide what to do, Gaddafi forces will find it easy to massacre more people and take back all rebel held regions, and the last hope of the Libyan people to see their country come out the rule of this tyrant.
 

pmaitra

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Gaddafi troops move into heart of key oil port

Gaddafi troops move into heart of key oil port

Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38am GMT
Reuters


By Michael Georgy and Maria Golovnina

TRIPOLI (Reuters) - Forces loyal to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi entered the oil port of Ras Lanuf in tanks and boats overnight as they intensified their counter-attack into the insurgent heartland.

Contacted by Reuters in the early hours, rebel fighter Ibrahim al-Alwani said he and comrades still in Ras Lanuf had seen government troops in the town centre.

"I saw maybe 150 men and three tanks," he said. "I can hear clashes."

Another rebel reported clashes with Gaddafi troops who had landed in Ras Lanuf by boat.

West of Tripoli, street fighting was reported in Zawiyah, which has changed hands several times in recent days. Residents described scenes of carnage, with women and children among the dead.

Gaddafi's son Saif al-Islam told the rebels on Thursday they faced a full-scale assault to crush their three-week-old uprising.

"It's time for action. We are moving now," he told Reuters in an interview. "Time is out now ... we gave them two weeks (for negotiations)."

As the military momentum appeared to turn against the rebels, foreign powers were at odds over how to end the turmoil and force Gaddafi out.

Gulf Arab countries said Gaddafi's government was no longer legitimate and France and Britain jointly called on the European Union to recognise the rebel council based in Benghazi.

Despite a flurry of meetings, foreign governments came no closer to deciding on action. The United States and NATO's chief expressed doubt over the wisdom of imposing no-fly zones without full international backing and a legal justification.

The African Union rejected any form of foreign intervention but said it was sending a delegation of five heads of state to Libya soon to try to arrange a truce in the hostilities.

"THE LONG HAUL"

In a sobering view of the bloodiest of the uprisings now shaking the Arab world, U.S. National Intelligence chief James Clapper said in Washington that Gaddafi was "in this for the long haul" and was likely to prevail.

London-educated Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, previously seen as a potential reformer, said in the interview that Libya would defeat the rebels even if Western powers intervened.

"We will never ever give up. We will never ever surrender. This is our country. We fight here in Libya," he said, speaking in a compound in Tripoli. "Libya is not a piece of cake."

Rebels in Ras Lanuf reported clashes with Gaddafi forces who landed by boat.

"Four boats carrying 40 to 50 men each landed there. We are fighting them right now," Mohammed al-Mughrabi, who described himself as a spokesman for the rebels, told Reuters by phone.

In the west, Gaddafi's troops laid siege to Zawiyah to try to starve out insurgents clinging to parts of the shattered city after see-saw battles this week.

One fighter said rebels had retaken the heart of Zawiyah from the army overnight. Authorities have kept journalists away from the town, about 50 km (30 miles) west of Tripoli.

FRENCH RECOGNITION

The rebels received a boost in their quest for international legitimacy when France recognised their Libyan National Council. An aide to President Nicolas Sarkozy said an ambassador would go to Benghazi and a Libyan envoy would be received in Paris.

Sarkozy and British Prime Minister David Cameron said Gaddafi and his clique had lost legitimacy and must step down.

In a joint declaration sent to the president of the European Union Council, they said plans must be made to help the insurrection, including a no-fly zone over Libya. They urged the European Union to recognise the rebel national council.

EU foreign ministers meeting in Brussels could not agree whether the bloc as a whole should recognise the Benghazi-based rebel council, although they did decide to tighten sanctions on Gaddafi's government.

In separate talks, NATO foreign ministers discussed imposing a no-fly zone over Libya to stop the government using air power against the outgunned rebels.

NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said this could happen only with a demonstrable need, a clear legal basis and firm regional support, not all of which now apply. This would require evidence of war crimes against civilians.

The United States, scarred by costly and controversial wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, appeared to be backing away from military action in another Muslim country.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said international consensus was needed for the next steps on Libya.

In Geneva, the International Committee of the Red Cross said Libya had descended into civil war with increasing numbers of wounded civilians arriving in hospitals in the east.

The Greek government said three Dutch marines arrested in Libya had been released and were being evacuated aboard a Greek military plane early on Friday.

The marines were arrested last week while trying to evacuate European citizens.

Source: http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE72A04L20110311?sp=true
 

pmaitra

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NATO to move warships closer to Libya, resists military action

NATO to move warships closer to Libya, resists military action

ARAB WORLD | 10.03.2011
Deutsche Welle



The warships are to increase monitoring of the violence

NATO has taken a cautious approach to action in Libya, opting for increased coastal monitoring rather than a no-fly zone. But France has taken a lead, recognizing rebel leaders as Libya's legitimate government.

The violence in Libya dominated a meeting of NATO defense ministers in Brussels on Thursday, as the military alliance agreed to move its warships to the central Mediterranean to monitor the situation.

NATO already has radar aircraft currently monitoring Libya's airspace, but the defense ministers agreed that the continuing violent confrontations between government forces and rebels warranted even more surveillance.

The warships will "improve NATO's situational awareness, which is vital in the current circumstances, and they will contribute to our surveillance and monitoring capability," Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen told reporters after the meeting.


Rasmussen said more planning was needed for a no-fly zone

Rasmussen backed away from the possibility of using military force, saying such action would require a strong legal basis and support from regional partners. He added that the alliance was not yet prepared to institute a no-fly zone.

"We considered ... initial options regarding a possible no-fly zone in case NATO were to receive a clear UN mandate," he said. "Ministers agreed that further planning will be required."

France blazes ahead

Meanwhile France became the first country to formally reject the government in Tripoli and recognize the Libyan National Council, a group of rebel leaders based in the east of the country which aims to present a political face to the opposition.

France has also led the push for a no-fly zone, co-drafting a resolution with the United Kingdom that was to be presented to the UN Security Council.

Politicians and analysts framed France's aggressive push as an attempt to redeem itself for being slow to respond to the uprising in its former colony Tunisia, which ousted President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali in mid-January.

"From the start we've been absent from this extraordinarily positive movement in North Africa," said Dominique Paille, a member of President Nicolas Sarkozy's ruling UMP party. "We started very badly ... and since then we have been a little afraid. We must take a certain leadership again."


Government forces have launched an assault on the rebel-held eastern town of Ras Lanuf

Assets frozen

Germany said Thursday it had frozen accounts belonging to the central bank and the sovereign wealth fund. More than 100 accounts at 14 German banks were targeted, blocking billions in funds, according to government sources.

The European Union also planned to reallocate an aid package worth 4 billion euros ($5.7 billion) designed to support the growth of democracy and boost business across the region.

On the ground, street-to-street fighting has turned the center of Zawiyah into a "ghost town" where rebels are tensed for the next assault by forces loyal to leader Moammar Gadhafi, who have cut off supplies to the western Libyan city.

The British daily The Guardian said one of its correspondents had disappeared in the city. The press freedom group Reporters Without Borders said the man had been arrested along with a Brazilian colleague.

Rebels in retreat

Pro-Gadhafi troops were said to have launched a major offensive on rebels in the eastern oil town of Ras Lanuf, forcing them to retreat.

A hospital source said at least four people had been killed and 35 wounded. Hundreds of rebel fighters were said to be fleeing further eastwards after coming under intense mortar and rocket fire.

Author: Andrew Bowen (Reuters, dpa)
Editor: Rob Turner

Source: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,14903856,00.html
 

badguy2000

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It is a dangerous proposition, yes. But they are doing it since everybody else is just sitting on their a***s and discussing what to do. Its better to start helping the rebels so that they are not defeated, and Gaddafi is overthrown. Its stupid for the others to just sit around and keep deliberating when 6000 people have already lost their lives and many more will follow if Gaddafi forces are not controlled. You can forget about Chinese investments for the time being, because if the NATO intervenes, then they will make sure they take the cake and leave nothing for others. And what do you mean by the final of civil war is not clear ?? If you keep waiting to decide what to do, Gaddafi forces will find it easy to massacre more people and take back all rebel held regions, and the last hope of the Libyan people to see their country come out the rule of this tyrant.
whoever will win and come into power in Lybia will have to need Chinese engineers ,technians and workers to restore the broken infrastructures and unfinished projects there.

the existence of China's influence in Lybia is not politics-driven,but market-driven....

BTW,

according to the west medias today, Lybian rebels seems to collapse soon and the Government troops are marching to Benghazi....

So, France might find that it has made a stupid decision and will be ass-kicked out of Lybia soon.


And after supressing the rebel, Gaddafi will be extremely hostile to West countries and be more friendly to China and Russia.
 
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JBH22

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it is stupid for France to provide open support to either one of two sides in one civil war,when the final of the civil war can not be clear yet.....

France would regret to do so soon,if rebel were to be defeated.

At that time, China would be happy to take over all unfinished investment and oil fields left by France...
X2 i agree but then European want to have so called moral superiority over others. India should also do the same wait and party with the winners by winning oil and gas contracts:) after all each country national interest primes.
 
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whoever will win and come into power in Lybia will have to need Chinese engineers ,technians and workers to restore the broken infrastructures and unfinished projects there.

the existence of China's influence in Lybia is not politics-driven,but market-driven....

BTW,

according to the west medias today, Lybian rebels seems to collapse soon and the Government troops are marching to Benghazi....

So, France might find that it has made a stupid decision and will be ass-kicked out of Lybia soon.


And after supressing the rebel, Gaddafi will be extremely hostile to West countries and be more friendly to China and Russia.
Good move by China, defeating the west politically again and accessing the resources.
 

pmaitra

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Deutche Welle was perhaps right in saying 'France blazes ahead' (see post #27)!

 
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Armand2REP

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whoever will win and come into power in Lybia will have to need Chinese engineers ,technians and workers to restore the broken infrastructures and unfinished projects there.

the existence of China's influence in Lybia is not politics-driven,but market-driven....

BTW,

according to the west medias today, Lybian rebels seems to collapse soon and the Government troops are marching to Benghazi....

So, France might find that it has made a stupid decision and will be ass-kicked out of Lybia soon.


And after supressing the rebel, Gaddafi will be extremely hostile to West countries and be more friendly to China and Russia.
When Gaddafi is overthrown, the rebels are going to reward those who helped them the most. That isn't going to be China. Even if Gaddafi holds out, he has no money and those mercenaries are not going to be too happy when they don't get paid.
 

pmaitra

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^^ It is not a question of when, but if.

The bigger 'if' is that how far is the West willing to go to help the rebels?

With every passing day, it is no more a good (protesters) vs evil (Gaddafi), but between rebels vs government forces.
 
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pmaitra

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S.Africa orders freeze on Gaddafi's assets

S.Africa orders freeze on Gaddafi's assets

Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:49am GMT
Reuters


JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) - South Africa's President Jacob Zuma has ordered the Treasury to freeze assets linked to Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his associates, a government official said on Friday.

"The process is underway and we are writing letters informing them that no money will be allowed to leave South Africa," foreign ministry spokesman Clayson Monyela, said without offering further details.

Local daily Business Day said the money is invested through the $5 billion Libya Arab Africa Investment Co (Laaico), through Libya Oil Holdings, Libya African Investment Portfolio and Libyan Foreign Investment Company (Lafico).

In South Africa, it owns Ensemble Hotel holdings, including the luxury Michelangelo Hotel in Johannesburg.

Libya holds billions of dollars in assets in Africa through subsidiaries of its $70 billion sovereign wealth fund.

The South African presidency said on Wednesday that Gaddafi called Zuma "to explain his side of the story".

The statement said: "South Africa has openly condemned the loss of life and attacks on civilians and reported violations of human rights in Libya."

Source: http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE72A06S20110311

Commentary:

So now even S. Africa is acting the policeman? Wow. Quam dramatic!

Hopefully, these properties will be restored to the people of Libya when this war ends. Ditto for the bigger Global Policemen.
 

Armand2REP

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^^ It is not a question of when, but if.
After looking at how poorly Libya's most elite soldiers performed, it is a question of when the rebels get organised. They hold the East (oil and gas fields) and Gaddafi can't take it back. There is plenty of time to get them running for a proper offensive.

The bigger if is that how far is the West willing to go to help the rebels?
Supply of weapons most likely.

With every passing day, it is no more a good (protesters) vs evil (Gaddafi), but between rebels vs government forces.
There was a video the other day of dozens of (unarmed) protesters mowed down in Zawiya. The US/EU/GCC says Gaddafi must go. All we need is the full Arab Council and NATO has the support they need to make it legitimate to act. I know China wants to keep their dictator, but they don't really have any access to him now.
 

badguy2000

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When Gaddafi is overthrown, the rebels are going to reward those who helped them the most. That isn't going to be China. Even if Gaddafi holds out, he has no money and those mercenaries are not going to be too happy when they don't get paid.
well, do'nt take it granted that " the helped would reward the helpers most naturally",espeically when its comes to international politics...such a idea is quite naive.......

For example:
the current goverment of Iraq and Afghan are both in fact "set up" by "armed force" led by USA,but it doesn't stop the both give most valuable oil gase and mines to CHina.

:confused1:
 

pmaitra

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After looking at how poorly Libya's most elite soldiers performed, it is a question of when the rebels get organised. They hold the East (oil and gas fields) and Gaddafi can't take it back. There is plenty of time to get them running for a proper offensive.
I think Gaddafi was going rather soft on the rebels which allowed them to capture so much territory in the first place. So, I would not consider this to be a poor performance, because when attacking, there is always a higher casualty among the attackers than the defenders. The fact that Gaddafi had superior weapons falls in line with more casualties among the rebels in the recent offensives.

If Gaddafi wanted, he could have done this long time back. Instead, he offered peace talks. Had the rebels accepted those offers, there would have been a transitional government, many of the rebels' demands could have been met and there would have been much less bloodshed. The rebels, bolstered by the diplomatic support, and perhaps material help, from the West has been adamant enough to keep this trouble simmering. None will emerge morally superior in this.

Eventually, we come back to the same point, control of resources, oil in this case, at least theoretically. Any pro-active effort from the West to support the rebels will only add legitimacy to this theory.

Supply of weapons most likely.
Is it not already happening? I think so, although I have no proof. Just my opinion.

There was a video the other day of dozens of (unarmed) protesters mowed down in Zawiya. The US/EU/GCC says Gaddafi must go. All we need is the full Arab Council and NATO has the support they need to make it legitimate to act. I know China wants to keep their dictator, but they don't really have any access to him now.
If you have the link, please share with us.

I have said this before that Gaddafi is no Saint and can be rightfully be blamed for human rights abuses over the years he ruled. However, Sirte, Gaddafi's native place, was a target of the rebels! Why? Gaddafi is in Tripoli. People in Sirte are pro-Gaddafi. So why were the rebels targeting Sirte? For some reason, this does not behove of noble intentions; especially after the rebels rejected Gaddafi's peace offer.

Finally, you mentioned US/EU/GCC. Cool. What about UN? Are we staring at yet another North African Yugoslavia?
 
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pmaitra

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well, do'nt take it granted that " the helped would reward the helpers most naturally",espeically when its comes to international politics...such a idea is quite naive.......

For example:
the current goverment of Iraq and Afghan are both in fact "set up" by "armed force" led by USA,but it doesn't stop the both give most valuable oil gase and mines to CHina.

:confused1:
Good point BadGuy2000. I guess Sarkozy should hire you as his advisor. :D
 

Armand2REP

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well, do'nt take it granted that " the helped would reward the helpers most naturally",espeically when its comes to international politics...such a idea is quite naive.......

For example:
the current goverment of Iraq and Afghan are both in fact "set up" by "armed force" led by USA,but it doesn't stop the both give most valuable oil gase and mines to CHina.

:confused1:
They don't give them away... China paid up the ass for them. I am talking about them paying.
 

badguy2000

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well ,what takes place in Lybia has nothing to do with "good vs evil",but a civil war ,which driven by the tribe politics,politics ambitions and west interferaton.
 

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