Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Mission

t_co

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

Not really a tu quoque.

Merely assisting you to understand the enviroment with an example that is close to something that a Chinese would understand, having been in such a situation themselves.

Just an aide-mémoire.

Jiggling your mind with something familiar.

Imagine that bloke Sihanouk playing to the international gallery but so close to the Chinese that he finally copped it in good old beloved China.
I'm actually not familiar with Sihanouk, and I also don't think what happened there is applicable to what's happening in the Maldives. Furthermore, your point has no relation to the original question--why is a governmental change in the Maldives the responsibility of India? Straight answers only, please, no analogies or logical fallacies.
 

amoy

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

Not really a tu quoque.

Merely assisting you to understand the enviroment with an example that is close to something that a Chinese would understand, having been in such a situation themselves.

Just an aide-mémoire.

Jiggling your mind with something familiar.

Imagine that bloke Sihanouk playing to the international gallery but so close to the Chinese that he finally copped it in good old beloved China.
Nasheed is too young to be another King Sihanouk





India shall intervene now to save Maldive's democracy from radicals. :namaste:
 

Ray

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

I'm actually not familiar with Sihanouk, and I also don't think what happened there is applicable to what's happening in the Maldives. Furthermore, your point has no relation to the original question--why is a governmental change in the Maldives the responsibility of India? Straight answers only, please, no analogies or logical fallacies.
If you are not familiar, you may spend time to look up the issue.

One cannot write of all the events where Sihanouk played the international gallery and yet kept his heart close to Peking. That is the essence.

There is no logical fallacy at all for those who have kept themselves abreast with the international events as they have unfolded or have read them up.
 

Ray

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

Nasheed is too young to be another King Sihanouk


India shall intervene now to save Maldive's democracy from radicals. :namaste:
It is not the age that is the factor.

It is the political affinity that governs his move in the same way as it did for Sihanouk.

India cannot and should not intervene except letting the issue pan out diplomatically.

Naseed is popular, while Gayoom and his backers who ruled for a very long time without a democratic setup are worried that Naseed may spring back.

Naseed did many things that were not very Islamic, but it got Maldives richer and he brought in modernisation that was welcomed by the youth. Gayoom and his folks are staunch in their Islamic belief.

Neither Gayoom or Nasheed are totally pro India.
 

t_co

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

If you are not familiar, you may spend time to look up the issue.

One cannot write of all the events where Sihanouk played the international gallery and yet kept his heart close to Peking. That is the essence.

There is no logical fallacy at all for those who have kept themselves abreast with the international events as they have unfolded or have read them up.
@Ray, the question here isn't about Sihanouk. It's about Nasheed and the Maldives. Please stay on topic and offer a clear reason why a governmental change in the Maldives is the responsibility of India.
 
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Ray

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

@t_co

Isn't it so obvious that it is not about Sihanouk!

But Sihanouk was an example to answer your question as to the equation between India and Maldives.

I fail to understand how you could not understand the equation with the example of Sihanouk's relations with China.

However, if you desired a thesis from me, well, the forum does not provide that opportunity in the limited space of a post.

The fact that the equation is self explanatory (for those who are well read in current affairs) seems to have robbed you the opportunity of scamming and hence, it appears, you are peeved and are seeking avenues......! ;)

Good luck and God Bless!
 
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amoy

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

India has to make it attractive for anyone in power to be pro India. When saying Nasheed is too young I tried to infer China was proven trustworthy to His Majesty over time whereas India is yet to show Maldives who's Big Brother.
 

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

One has to remember that the present government itself came to power by a 'coup'. Nasheed was the president who was democratically elected. Hope India sends strong Message to Waheed to conduct free and fair elections where Nasheed has bright chance to become president again.
 

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

India has to make it attractive for anyone in power to be pro India. When saying Nasheed is too young I tried to infer China was proven trustworthy to His Majesty over time whereas India is yet to show Maldives who's Big Brother.
It is right that India should act more proactively and not act as Goody Two Shoes!

India should have assisted in maintaining democracy and not act coy over the coup.
 

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

India has to make it attractive for anyone in power to be pro India. When saying Nasheed is too young I tried to infer China was proven trustworthy to His Majesty over time whereas India is yet to show Maldives who's Big Brother.
Mamoon Abdul Gayoom was pro India. India was big brother till the Islamists Nutjobs got into the picture.
 

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

NEW DELHI/MALE: India on Thursday sought to resolve the "unusual situation" arising from ex-Maldivian president Mohamed Nasheed taking refuge in the Indian high commission in Male, with external affairs minister Salman Khurshid having a "good, very useful and long" conversation with his Maldivian counterpart.

After talking for 40 minutes on phone with Abdul Samad Abdullah, Khurshid voiced the hope that a solution "to the satisfaction of everybody" would be found. But it was still an on-going process, he said.

Meanwhile, 45-year-old Nasheed continued to remain holed up in the Indian mission for the second day in a row. He has taken refuge in the Indian high commission to evade arrest warrant issued by a local court in a case concerning the detention of chief judge of the criminal court during his presidency in January last year.

"I have had a long conversation ... We have discussed in detail the situation as it stands today. We are in the process, we are continuing our conversation.

"May be I would speak to him again later in the day. We are working in the background. I hope we can come to a resolution of the present situation which is to the satisfaction of everybody. But it is still an ongoing process," Khurshid said.

The Minister said both sides have understood the "totality of the circumstances".

Replying to a query on Maldives foreign ministry's strongly worded statement accusing India of undermining its democratic institutions, Khurshid said: "We went through everything. Unfortunately, reports go out which are unauthenticated and which are not accurate reports of how both sides are approaching a situation, which is obviously a situation of an unusual nature".

Terming Maldives as a "valuable friend" of India, Khurshid said "inaccurate reports" should not be allowed to come in the way of this "friendship".

"There is a prevailing situation on which we had, as I said to you, a good conversation, a very useful conversation," he said.

India tries to resolve 'unusual' situation in Maldives - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site
 

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

It will be India's biggest foreign policy blunder if India ditches Nasheed and hands him over to the Nutjobs. India should stay out and act with some balls. Tell the Maldives govt clearly and in no uncertain terms that Nasheed is under Indian protection. India will become a laughing stock if it hands over this person to th nuts.
 

K Factor

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

That argument has nothing to do with answering my question: why is a governmental change in the Maldives the responsibility of India?
Operation Cactus
Maldives has been historically connected to India and falls within India's sphere of influence. When we were asked to save democracy and prevent a coup, it is imperative that we have a say in what goes on there.
Moreover, the premise of your question is faulty. A government change in Maldives is not the responsibility of India, but India's responsibility is to ensure that Indian interests in the Maldives are not damaged (like the GMR fiasco).

Think along the lines of China supporting and using NK regime to go against all logic to prevent a pro-US united Korea and not have refugees streaming into China by the millions. ;)
 

t_co

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

Operation Cactus
Maldives has been historically connected to India and falls within India's sphere of influence. When we were asked to save democracy and prevent a coup, it is imperative that we have a say in what goes on there.
There we go--finally a response to my question--but it raises another two questions:

Why does the Maldives fall within India's sphere of influence?
Is it true that the Maldives is historically connected to India?

There's not really a good answer to the first question. Simply backing one faction in a coup does not give a state a legitimate reason to interfere in another state's affairs--or else you could claim that Iran, for example, falls within the American and British sphere of influence, which most people would find laughable. For the second question, the Maldives was first Dutch, then British, then independent. Nowhere in its political history was it ever tied to India.

In the mid-seventeenth century, the Dutch Empire (Malabar) dominated Maldives for four months. Finally, in the late eighteenth century, on the brink of war, the Maldives became a British protectorate from 1887 until 1965. The Dutch referred to the islands as the "Maldivische Eilanden" (pronounced [mɑl?divis? ??i?lɑnd?(n)]),[citation needed] while the British anglicised the local name for the islands first to the "Maldive Islands" and later to the "Maldives". The islands gained independence from the British in 1965 and became a republic ruled by a sultanate and an authoritarian government.
Ergo, there is no legitimate justification towards the Maldivian people or de jure justification towards the international community for India's meddling in Maldive's internal affairs. However:

Moreover, the premise of your question is faulty. A government change in Maldives is not the responsibility of India, but India's responsibility is to ensure that Indian interests in the Maldives are not damaged (like the GMR fiasco).

Think along the lines of China supporting and using NK regime to go against all logic to prevent a pro-US united Korea and not have refugees streaming into China by the millions. ;)
Of course India has a sovereign right to protect its interests--all nations do. Leaving your tu quoque aside, it is clear that this is a simple exercise in power politics--a simple display of naked influence, no legitimacy involved. The curious thing is: why the attempt by other posters to dress this up as something to "help" the Maldives? Why not just say "we are Athens, you are Melos, you will submit or have 1600 paratroopers rain on your head?" After all, that is the truth of the matter.
 

amoy

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Hushhhhh r u the kid speaking loudly the King is parading naked? Every nation is following rules of the jungle. Some r just too shy to tell so but dress their true intent up in "defending democracy" . Wondering why the chieftain of the islands hasn't invited Unkle to make Gan Port another S'pore?!


Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
 

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

There we go--finally a response to my question--but it raises another two questions:

Why does the Maldives fall within India's sphere of influence?
Is it true that the Maldives is historically connected to India?

There's not really a good answer to the first question. Simply backing one faction in a coup does not give a state a legitimate reason to interfere in another state's affairs--or else you could claim that Iran, for example, falls within the American and British sphere of influence, which most people would find laughable. For the second question, the Maldives was first Dutch, then British, then independent. Nowhere in its political history was it ever tied to India.



Ergo, there is no legitimate justification towards the Maldivian people or de jure justification towards the international community for India's meddling in Maldive's internal affairs. However:



Of course India has a sovereign right to protect its interests--all nations do. Leaving your tu quoque aside, it is clear that this is a simple exercise in power politics--a simple display of naked influence, no legitimacy involved. The curious thing is: why the attempt by other posters to dress this up as something to "help" the Maldives? Why not just say "we are Athens, you are Melos, you will submit or have 1600 paratroopers rain on your head?" After all, that is the truth of the matter.
Based on Chinese logic of using 12 century maps, India can well claim Maldives as its own for your information. Read about Maldives and you will know what I mean.

Just a snippet below

Comparative studies of Maldivian oral, linguistic and cultural traditions and customs indicate that the first settlers were Dravidian people[20] from Kerala in the Sangam period (300 BC–AD 300), most probably fishermen from the southwest coasts of what is now the south of the Indian Subcontinent and the western shores of Sri Lanka. One such community is the Giraavaru people descended from ancient Tamils. They are mentioned in ancient legends and local folklore about the establishment of the capital and kingly rule in Malé. They are considered to be the islands' earliest settler community. A strong underlying layer of Dravidian population and culture survives in Maldivian society, with a clear Dravidian-Malayalam substratum in the language, which also appears in place names, kinship terms, poetry, dance, and religious beliefs. Malabari seafaring culture led to Malayali settling of the Laccadives, and the Maldives were evidently viewed as an extension of that archipelago. Some argue (from the presence of Jat, Gujjar Titles and Gotra names) that Sindhis also accounted for an early layer of migration. Seafaring from Debal began during the Indus valley civilisation. The Jatakas and Puranas show abundant evidence of this maritime trade; the use of similar traditional boat building techniques in Northwestern South Asia and the Maldives, and the presence of silver punch mark coins from both regions, gives additional weight to this. There are minor signs of Southeast Asian settlers, probably some adrift from the main group of Austronesian reed boat migrants that settled Madagascar.[2] There are some signs of Arab inhabitants, mostly in the southernmost atolls, who probably settled in the height of the Islamic era.

In the early 11th century, the Minicoy and Thiladhunmathi, and possibly other northern Atolls, were conquered by the medieval Chola Tamil emperor Raja Raja Chola I, thus becoming a part of the Chola Empire.
 

t_co

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Re: Former President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

Based on Chinese logic of using 12 century maps, India can well claim Maldives as its own for your information. Read about Maldives and you will know what I mean.

Just a snippet below

Comparative studies of Maldivian oral, linguistic and cultural traditions and customs indicate that the first settlers were Dravidian people[20] from Kerala in the Sangam period (300 BC–AD 300), most probably fishermen from the southwest coasts of what is now the south of the Indian Subcontinent and the western shores of Sri Lanka. One such community is the Giraavaru people descended from ancient Tamils. They are mentioned in ancient legends and local folklore about the establishment of the capital and kingly rule in Malé. They are considered to be the islands' earliest settler community. A strong underlying layer of Dravidian population and culture survives in Maldivian society, with a clear Dravidian-Malayalam substratum in the language, which also appears in place names, kinship terms, poetry, dance, and religious beliefs. Malabari seafaring culture led to Malayali settling of the Laccadives, and the Maldives were evidently viewed as an extension of that archipelago. Some argue (from the presence of Jat, Gujjar Titles and Gotra names) that Sindhis also accounted for an early layer of migration. Seafaring from Debal began during the Indus valley civilisation. The Jatakas and Puranas show abundant evidence of this maritime trade; the use of similar traditional boat building techniques in Northwestern South Asia and the Maldives, and the presence of silver punch mark coins from both regions, gives additional weight to this. There are minor signs of Southeast Asian settlers, probably some adrift from the main group of Austronesian reed boat migrants that settled Madagascar.[2] There are some signs of Arab inhabitants, mostly in the southernmost atolls, who probably settled in the height of the Islamic era.

In the early 11th century, the Minicoy and Thiladhunmathi, and possibly other northern Atolls, were conquered by the medieval Chola Tamil emperor Raja Raja Chola I, thus becoming a part of the Chola Empire.
Then do it. No one is stopping you... and the longer you wait, the less of those islands will be above sea level anyhow
 

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

That has nothing to do with the original question. Why is a governmental change in the Maldives the responsibility of India?
Maldives has historic connections with India and Maldives receives help from India in its affairs. For decades India is helping Maldives.



Since when Chinese are questioning India's role in India's ocean??
 

t_co

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

Maldives has historic connections with India and Maldives receives help from India in its affairs. For decades India is helping Maldives.



Since when Chinese are questioning India's role in India's ocean??
India's Ocean? I'm sure Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka would all beg to differ.

Second, this isn't the view of China--I'm merely curious because I sincerely want to know what reason gives India a normative right to meddle in the internal affairs of a smaller neighbor. You seem to think India's interpretation of historic connections is enough. Then please--shut up when China uses China's interpretation of historical connections to intervene in Vietnam, the Philippines, and the South China Sea. Many thanks in advance.
 

Srinivas_K

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Re: Fromer President of Maldives Nasheed takes refuge in Indian Missio

India's Ocean? I'm sure Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka would all beg to differ.

Second, this isn't the view of China--I'm merely curious because I sincerely want to know what reason gives India a normative right to meddle in the internal affairs of a smaller neighbor. You seem to think India's interpretation of historic connections is enough. Then please--shut up when China uses China's interpretation of historical connections to intervene in Vietnam, the Philippines, and the South China Sea. Many thanks in advance.
If whole of SCS is considered Chinese why not Indian ocean??
 

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