Foreign Policy of Japan

[Razor]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

Would seem we are going Japanese i.e. we've signed some contract with them. Japan is Western.

From what I understand the options are;
A) Buy, fully, Japanese made subs which should be the cheapest (in regards to cash spent) option for the government.
B) Entirely make a new "Super Collins" class of subs in Australian shipyards. More expensive than option A but all the cash for the project stays in Australia.
C) Jointly manufacture a totally new class of subs partly in Japan, partly in Oz.

Australian submarine manufacturing is a bit of a controversial subject. From what I understand, the RAN was very happy with the Collins class and wasn't too upset with the time it took to manufacture them and get them operational. But, the project took forever and we had quite a few (4-5???) different govts. as the construction and development of the class was conducted. Each new govt attacked the previous govt for the "failures" of the Collins's and the press lapped it up. As I've said a few different times on this board, there is going to be a submarine based story, every few months, in the Australian press for the next decade+

I'm impressed if Australia at least jointly manufactures the subs. It could inspire canada to pursue the same path especially after the brits sold us subpar subs in the 90s that killed Canadian sailors. :-(

I agree Japan is western geopoliticaly and heavily western in pop culture but only a few decades ago Japanese were tiny yellow men with giant teeth ready to overrun anglo Asia you might disagree or not but not really arguing the point just my perception. My real point is kudos to Australia, Us here in canada can learn from you guys. After allowing the avro arrow be undermined we should be as smart as our Australian Friends.

Sorry for the quick OT, but Japan is Western

Geography= No (Land of rising Sun, one of the Eastern most nations)
Ethnics = No (98% Yamato ethnic group, rest mostly Chinese and Koreans)
Language= No (100% Nihongo; Script= kanji with added kana.)
Culture= No
Religion= No (around 1% xtian)

Japan aligns with the usa (because of regional security threats and also well, because it has the largest collection of US troops outside the US-- so doesn't really have a choice), but that doesn't mean it is Western.

If still in doubt try asking a Japanese whether he thinks japan is western

It is just arrogance or ignorance on your part to proclaim that Japan is Western.

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On topic.

Japan has a well developed shipbuilding industry. And it needs to further strengthen its naval capabilities including naval shipbuilding.
It is an eventuality that Japan will have to have a strong Navy. Japan doesn't have any resources (other than human). So a strong Navy is critical for Japan. And lets face it, the USA is not going to be around forever, to protect Japan from the obvious threat in the neighbourhood and to give Japan leverage in international relations and negotiations.

 

[Otm Shank2]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

Razor

I agree that the Japanese is culturally Eastern at it's core but geopolitically, as in they were nuked twice and had to lay down their sovereignty to America to survive no different than India did to survive British Imperialism and in pop culture it is Western no different than the multiple corporate/consumerist things from entertainment to retail products and fashion permeates through India.

 

[Razor]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

OT warning.

Razor

I agree that the Japanese is culturally Eastern at it's core but geopolitically, as in they were nuked twice and had to lay down their sovereignty to America to survive no different than India did to survive British Imperialism and in pop culture it is Western no different than the multiple corporate/consumerist things from entertainment to retail products and fashion permeates through India.

1. "sovereignty to America": It is a two-way road.
America: Positive= Project power into region. Significant presence in foreign relations equations of nearby nations.
Negative= Tax payer money goes for protection of another country and its interest.
Net= Gain for America govt.

Japan: Positive: Free ride on US security assurance
Negative: No real freedom in decision making. (For eg: Before the Ukr debacle Abe was cozying upto Putin for 2 reasons: 1. End Kuril Island disputes, which Russia also wanted to end 2. Common threat in the region aka China. But as soon as Ukr happened poor japan had to abandon its efforts to strengthen realtions w/ Russia, coz of US pressure. And thus Japan is forced to act against its own interest, implies no real freedom of making decisions.)

2. "pop-culture": Japanese culture is well, Japanese. But of course in this age mixture of cultures seems inevitable. And therefore you'll see massive follwing for anime and manga in the West, just as there is massive following for whatever you were talking about afaik India is concerned. But the core culture is Japanese and that was my point.

 

[no smoking]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

Sorry for the quick OT, but Japan is Western

Geography= No (Land of rising Sun, one of the Eastern most nations)
Ethnics = No (98% Yamato ethnic group, rest mostly Chinese and Koreans)
Language= No (100% Nihongo; Script= kanji with added kana.)
Culture= No
Religion= No (around 1% xtian)

Japan aligns with the usa (because of regional security threats and also well, because it has the largest collection of US troops outside the US-- so doesn't really have a choice), but that doesn't mean it is Western.

If still in doubt try asking a Japanese whether he thinks japan is western

It is just arrogance or ignorance on your part to proclaim that Japan is Western.

---------

On topic.

Japan has a well developed shipbuilding industry. And it needs to further strengthen its naval capabilities including naval shipbuilding.
It is an eventuality that Japan will have to have a strong Navy. Japan doesn't have any resources (other than human). So a strong Navy is critical for Japan. And lets face it, the USA is not going to be around forever, to protect Japan from the obvious threat in the neighbourhood and to give Japan leverage in international relations and negotiations.

If USA is not being around, what do think that Japanese will do? Fighting against Chinese alone, or allying with Chinese to compete the resources outside eastern Asia?

 

[Free Karma]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

If USA is not being around, what do think that Japanese will do? Fighting against Chinese alone, or allying with Chinese to compete the resources outside eastern Asia?

The question is how do you ally with a nation that claims bits of your country? How will you solve that issue?

Also multiple sources indicate that Japan can go nuclear anytime it wants to...so if they needed a strong deterrent that is probably where they would turn.

 

[Razor]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

If USA is not being around, what do think that Japanese will do? Fighting against Chinese alone, or allying with Chinese to compete the resources outside eastern Asia?

Obviously nothing is cut and dried.
Things evolve according to evolving situations.
First, I don't think USA will be leaving that area anytime soon.
Second, I think Japan will in the meantime start strengthening its Navy and military.
Third, Japan will try strengthening relations with several nations countries including Russia (this has been offset now.)
I don't think Japan will give up the Islands, if that is what you mean by "Fighting against Chinese alone."

 

[Otm Shank2]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

If USA is not being around, what do think that Japanese will do? Fighting against Chinese alone, or allying with Chinese to compete the resources outside eastern Asia?

Japanese could have easily done that in ww2.

likewise china could have "allied" Vietnam or any eastern asian country. Why arent they?

With Chinese brainwashed with the 100 years of humiliation and Japanese mindset of superiority that If america isnt around youd both go psycho on each other.

 

[The Messiah]

First they should burn there current constitution and draft a new one. Until then they're nothing but lackeys of the west.

 

[prohumanity]

When did Japan have a foreign policy ? Japan foreign policy is decided and implemented in some other nation's capital. Not independent yet.

 

[Otm Shank2]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

OT warning.



1. "sovereignty to America": It is a two-way road.
America: Positive= Project power into region. Significant presence in foreign relations equations of nearby nations.
Negative= Tax payer money goes for protection of another country and its interest.
Net= Gain for America govt.

Japan: Positive: Free ride on US security assurance
Negative: No real freedom in decision making. (For eg: Before the Ukr debacle Abe was cozying upto Putin for 2 reasons: 1. End Kuril Island disputes, which Russia also wanted to end 2. Common threat in the region aka China. But as soon as Ukr happened poor japan had to abandon its efforts to strengthen realtions w/ Russia, coz of US pressure. And thus Japan is forced to act against its own interest, implies no real freedom of making decisions.)

2. "pop-culture": Japanese culture is well, Japanese. But of course in this age mixture of cultures seems inevitable. And therefore you'll see massive follwing for anime and manga in the West, just as there is massive following for whatever you were talking about afaik India is concerned. But the core culture is Japanese and that was my point.

A vassal state always gets protection from its Master as long as its defence is cheaper economically than its gains. Youre right. America projects its power through Japan. If America was projecting Japanese power or ensuring Japanese territorial integrity an american carrier group would be next to the land both China and japan dispute but the american ww2 terms of surrender/the constitution says they dont even have a sufficient self defense force to even atleast go the bargaining table equally.

ZERO american dollars go for Japans security directly. If a war went down with China or for some remote reason say another American vassal Philippines or Indonesia ( just examples). America's reaction would range from UN resolutions that lets it profit the most to deserting the area if it involves china. Japan is NOT the UK. Security assurance by western nations are only for other white/christian nations.

Japan's greatest gain is also Americas best asset in east Asia; multiple vassal states. SK, Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia et al. They create and dominate the direction/Agenda/atmosphere.Japan gets to be top of the heap. If most of those countries had no American presence America may have been supporting another Israel, aka the traditional neighborhood pariah for killing subjugating tens of millions of other east asians. Its exporting economy would not exist without the american economic order that allows abundant access to materials.

Americas greatest asset in the relationship is it subjugates the most competent non western power and only real competitor to high technology and perhaps economically. It also shows its own competency being the centre of western power, the modern Rome.

Russia and Japan wanting to solve their dispute is similar to India and crapistan both wanting to solve kashmir. They both want it on their own terms.

Japan created a huge amount of china's investment.

IMO they tried to assert themselves with military power in ww2 and failed


They tried in the 70s early 80s with economic power and faltered

They tried to turn their economic power into hard power by building a fighter and america interceded. .they bought american fighters deep down

Japans foreign policy is to work in the shadow of china. Wait for the west to feel threatened by china and then rebuild hard power as they are now

India did a similar thing to pakistan. Who questions indias nuke counts or missile ranges when they have a crazy islam republic next door? Or Japan a crazy commie cou try?

A question I have is did America create China by subjugating and defanging its main east asian check/balance of power or did japan create China to work in its shadow to break US hegemony?

(take it easy on me just perspectives I have lol)

 

[no smoking]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

The question is how do you ally with a nation that claims bits of your country? How will you solve that issue?

Then you really don't know about these Japanese. They can and they will if they think that table is turned around.

Also multiple sources indicate that Japan can go nuclear anytime it wants to...so if they needed a strong deterrent that is probably where they would turn.

And did these multiple told you that Japan never worried about Chinese nuclear weapons. These Japanese nuclear weapons (if they get eventually) can do as much as Chinese nuclear weapons do in any disputed land: zero.

 

[no smoking]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

Japanese could have easily done that in ww2.

What they've done in WW2? A Japanese force armed with modern boomers, tanks, cannons, couldn't defeat a backward army consists of peasants with only rifles?

likewise china could have "allied" Vietnam or any eastern asian country. Why arent they?

No, China don't need to ally with anyone when handling Japan. We always know Japan is not the problem, the real big problem is U.S.A.

With Chinese brainwashed with the 100 years of humiliation and Japanese mindset of superiority that If america isnt around youd both go psycho on each other.

No, If American is gone, you will be surprised how quick these both countries can settle their dispute peacefully. Yes, we know these Japanese as much as they know us, after all, we live in neighbourhood for thousands years.

 

[Otm Shank2]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

What they've done in WW2? A Japanese force armed with modern boomers, tanks, cannons, couldn't defeat a backward army consists of peasants with only rifles?



No, China don't need to ally with anyone when handling Japan. We always know Japan is not the problem, the real big problem is U.S.A.



No, If American is gone, you will be surprised how quick these both countries can settle their dispute peacefully. Yes, we know these Japanese as much as they know us, after all, we live in neighbourhood for thousands years.

What I was saying was In ww2 japan could have allied china to compete for resources outside east asia.


China could ally the vietnamese and other east asian nations right this very second instead of bullying them over petty land disputes.

Your thousands years of neighborhood bs doesnt fly when every time outside hegemony lightened in east asia you all use the opportunity to act even worse to each other and play the whos superior game..

 

[Free Karma]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

Then you really don't know about these Japanese. They can and they will if they think that table is turned around.

So will China keep quiet about the islands? Not from what I've seen, the general attitude is to try and keep issues from being settled. If you can keep the islands issue aside, i.e let status quo be, and let Japan control the islands then it should be okay. But no...

And did these multiple told you that Japan never worried about Chinese nuclear weapons. These Japanese nuclear weapons (if they get eventually) can do as much as Chinese nuclear weapons do in any disputed land: zero.

the point about nukes is in terms of deterrence, from taking over their islands in the absence of the backing of a string country like the U.S., they have nothing to do with Chinese nukes themselves.

 

[Sambha ka Boss]

Re: Japan proposes joint work on Australia sub fleet: report

So will China keep quiet about the islands? Not from what I've seen, the general attitude is to try and keep issues from being settled. If you can keep the islands issue aside, i.e let status quo be, and let Japan control the islands then it should be okay. But no...


the point about nukes is in terms of deterrence, from taking over their islands in the absence of the backing of a string country like the U.S., they have nothing to do with Chinese nukes themselves.

Island is just a little thing, whole Chinese nationalistic sentiments is based on opposing Japan and Chinese are paranoid about Japan more than any other country in the world.