For India, Ghost of Planned Economy are causing starvation

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

I take it you agree.

Good.

Now coming to the next point:

Many farmers do have their own storage facilities. They can store rice and keep them in the storage, and then sell them one year later. Do you know why? I really want you to answer this question. These farmers also have the option of selling out their stored grains when prices spike.

It is the landless labourers, who work the farms, but do not own their own land, who end up being at most risk. This is the reality, and not what you stated.

Coming to perishable items, yes, vegetables, etc., are perishable, but then there are rarely middlemen involved. Farmers actually take their produce directly to the markets and sell them. Again, contrary to what you said, high prices will help the farmers.

That is why I said you are away from the reality.

Storage facilities!! you made me laugh on that one.
- Most farmers have small land holdings(hence almost landless)
- Storage facilities are for personal use(ask someone how much it costs to build a grain holder and you will get the answer). Most houses are not even pukka.

To clear the cobwebs on perishable items, read this http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...can-soon-sell-fruits-vegetables-directly.html. I am sorry to say but here you are pretty much fighting an ill-informed case.

Hope it brings you out of fairy tale.

 

[pmaitra]

That is why I said you are away from the reality.

Storage facilities!! you made me laugh on that one.
- Most farmers have small land holdings(hence almost landless)
- Storage facilities are for personal use(ask someone how much it costs to build a grain holder and you will get the answer). Most houses are not even pukka.

To clear the cobwebs on perishable items, read this http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...can-soon-sell-fruits-vegetables-directly.html. I am sorry to say but here you are pretty much fighting an ill-informed case.

Hope it brings you out of fairy tale.

You have cleverly avoided my question, which was specific to rice, because you do not know any better. I will ask again. Why do rice farmers store their grain and sell it one year later?

You wrote about fruits produced by Maharashtra farmers, but that does not apply to the whole of India, neither does that apply to rice or wheat, the principal staple of India.

Ask any rice farmer from anywhere in India, North, East, Central or South. Ask them the question I asked you. If you get an answer, you will realize how well informed you are.

So, answer my question, then I will respond to the rest of what you have written.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

I did not avoid your answer. I told you how middlemen works in perishable food market which you took so much for granted in above post.

Now, coming to rice. If you store for a year and then sell then according to you it is just a repetitive cycle. Every year you sell the last year's produce and no brains involved with no sign of profit making. And I still say that most farmers sell it immediately after production except keeping the portion for personal consumption.

And the reality is far off from what you know even about rice. New rice is sold off into the market while old rice is stored for consumption because it is good to eat. Most paddy growers maintain stocks of rice over the years for personal consumption. When at home, I eat rice 2-3 years old and it sells for a big premium. But still no one sells old rice because there is not enough storage options except enough for personal consumption. And this is first hand knowledge.

Coming to perishable items, yes, vegetables, etc., are perishable, but then there are rarely middlemen involved. Farmers actually take their produce directly to the markets and sell them.

Your ignorance is so well reflected from the perishable goods posts, that it needs no further explanation. APMC barrier exists in most states in India!!

 

[Ray]

There is no doubt that India lacks cold storage facilities and silos and foodgrain storage facilities.

Every year since the time when India became self sufficient, debates have gone on about lack of storage.

It is a political game and nothing more!

 

[Ray]

Now, coming to rice. If you store for a year and then sell then according to you it is just a repetitive cycle. Every year you sell the last year's produce and no brains involved with no sign of profit making.

Old rice is more expensive than the freshly harvested ones!

Freshly harvested rice becomes soggy while cooking!

 

[pmaitra]

I did not avoid your answer. I told you how middlemen works in perishable food market which you took so much for granted in above post.

Now, coming to rice. If you store for a year and then sell then according to you it is just a repetitive cycle. Every year you sell the last year's produce and no brains involved with no sign of profit making.

And the reality is far off from what you know even about rice. New rice is sold off into the market while old rice is stored for consumption because it is good to eat. Most paddy growers maintain stocks of rice over the years for personal consumption. When at home, I eat rice 2-3 years old and it sells for a big premium. But still no one sells old rice because there is not enough storage options except enough for personal consumption. And this is first hand knowledge.

Your ignorance is so well reflected from the perishable goods posts, that it needs no further explanation. APMC barrier exists in most states in India!!

Thank you for your response.

I am sorry to say it was completely off and does not reflect the reality. Moreover, you have no idea about rice farming.

Preparation of rice:
Rice is harvested and then they are boiled. Some varieties exist that are Sun dried. Then they are stored.

Why storage?
Just harvested rice, once boiled, is stored in sacks, and can be sold in the open market. This is called chawal in Hindi. You take this home, and boil again, and then it becomes bhaat. This bhaat will be small in volume. Now, boil the rice, store them, and do not touch them for one year. Then sell this rice, or chawal in the market. Then that rice, once boiled, become bhaat, or very large volume. This is the property of rice, something which you were totally ignorant about, and hence your assumption farmers do not store rice.

Read Ray Sir's post.

So, do some research, then debate, ok?

 

[pmaitra]

Old rice is more expensive than the freshly harvested ones!

Freshly harvested rice becomes soggy while cooking!

Absolutely correct.

We have a saying, "purano chawl bhaate bare!" Many people don't know that, but hey, you don't have to know everything to debate, right?

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

^^ I mentioned it above in the same post.

I said that most small farmers are able to store it only for personal consumption. The cost of storage for a small farmer makes it difficult to store and sell.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

Absolutely correct.

We have a saying, "purano chawl bhaate bare!" Many people don't know that, but hey, you don't have to know everything to debate, right?

If I had not known it I would not have mentioned the "purano chawl bhaate bare!" idea before you and Ray about why we keep old rice for personal consumption.

 

[pmaitra]

If I had not known it I would not have mentioned the "purano chawl bhaate bare!" idea before you and Ray about why we keep old rice for personal consumption.

No you did not say that. You have never mentioned why the rice we eat today was the rice the was harvested last year, even after repeatedly asking you. Just admit you did not know.

And no, not only for personal consumption, but also for commercial trade, rice is stored, not only by middlemen, but also by farmers. That brings me to the point where I stated that many farmers do store rice, which includes rice stored to be sold later.

 

[Ray]

If I had not known it I would not have mentioned the "purano chawl bhaate bare!" idea before you and Ray about why we keep old rice for personal consumption.

Maitra,

I cook and so I know.

You don't.

You go by what your mother told you.

The old saying goes - koto dhane koto chal!

Non rice eaters would not know anything about rice, so why debate that?

Maharastrians eat bhakri.

It is only those from Ratnagiri who eat rice and fish!

 

[pmaitra]

Maitra,

I cook and so I know.

You don't.

You go by what your mother told you.

I have been living alone and cooking by myself since the last 12 years, but yes, I learnt that phrase from my mother.

My maternal grandmother's side has many rice farmers and landowners. In fact, in my grandmother's village, most farmers actually have their own storage. They don't stay at the mercy of middlemen. Some poor farmers do, but they are a small minority. One of my uncles had several acres (like 6 football fields) of mango orchard, which he cut down and converted for rice cultivation.

 

[Apollyon]

The average per capita operational size of land holding in India is 1.33 ha, which is far below the world average of 3.7 ha per person. Further, land holdings have shown a marginal decrease from the holding size of that of a decade ago (1.41 ha).

Over 80% of the land holdings in India are classified as small and marginal land holdings with the farm size of less than 2 ha. This implies that over 80% of the farmers in India hold just 39% of the total cultivated land.

Business Line : Industry & Economy / Agri-biz : Consolidation – A critical enabler for efficient farming

So most of the farmers in India hold a small amount of land and it will not be feasible for them to construct storage facilities on their farmland.

 

[Mad Indian]

It is the landless labourers, who work the farms, but do not own their own land, who end up being at most risk. This is the reality, and not what you stated.

Thats a baseless accusation. For instance in TN, we have shortage of labour as there is no labour available

We are now having North Indian migrants coming here to work here for the unskilled labours. So dont go by whatever you read from the News papers about Poverty and rich poor divide

 

[Ray]

Finger Millets
Finger millet:
Also known as Ragi or Mandwa is the most important small millet food crops of Southern Karnataka, Maharashtra, Uttaranchal, Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Orissa, It is grown successfully in areas where rainfall is about 350 mm and temperatures more than 30 degree Celsius.

Pearl millet:
Also known as Bajra is a Kharif crop and is chiefly grown in Rajasthan, Gujarat, Uttar Pradesh, Haryana, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Punjab and Maharashtra. The crop can do well in the areas with less than 350 mm annual rainfall and temperatures between 25 to 35 degree Celsius.

Sorghum:
Also known as Jowar is perceived to be important coarse grained food crop which is cultivated widely across Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh, Utar Pradesh, Haryana, Andhra Pradesh, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and in parts of Rajasthan. The crop is hardy and cultivated in areas with rainfall beyond 350 mm.

 

[pmaitra]

If I had not known it I would not have mentioned the "purano chawl bhaate bare!" idea before you and Ray about why we keep old rice for personal consumption.

I (or my family) don't keep rice for personal consumption. Never did. We always go to the market and we can tell whether the rice is this year's or last year's. We get last year's rice, bring it home, and consume it. As simple as that. We do not store for personal consumption.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

No you did not say that. You have never mentioned why the rice we eat today was the rice the was harvested last year, even after repeatedly asking you. Just admit you did not know.

And no, not only for personal consumption, but also for commercial trade, rice is stored, not only by middlemen, but also by farmers. That brings me to the point where I stated that many farmers do store rice, which includes rice stored to be sold later.

Brush up your reading skills then.

And the reality is far off from what you know even about rice. New rice is sold off into the market while old rice is stored for consumption because it is good to eat. Most paddy growers maintain stocks of rice over the years for personal consumption. When at home, I eat rice 2-3 years old and it sells for a big premium

Obviously I did not write it in Bangla but it meant exactly that you pointed out later. Read again if you do not understand.

Storage decision is one of optimization. Cost of rice next year - spending money on storage cost > cost of rice produced today.... goes into decision making. And more often in the case of Indian farmers the choice is later.

You are the one who has brushed under the carpet your ignorance about the marketing of perishable goods.

 

[Ray]

I have been living alone and cooking by myself since the last 12 years

No wonder you are such a slim chap and a heart throb of the American girls or so they say.

 

[pmaitra]

Thats a baseless accusation. For instance in TN, we have shortage of labour as there is no labour available

We are now having North Indian migrants coming here to work here for the unskilled labours. So dont go by whatever you read from the News papers about Poverty and rich poor divide

Where have I accused anyone? What are you talking about?

Let me clarify. I was just saying landless labourers are at most rick, because, they do not own the land, and therefore, their only income is during harvest time. Perhaps it is different in TN? Do they pay all year round for these harvesters? Let me know.

 

[Sakal Gharelu Ustad]

I (or my family) don't keep rice for personal consumption. Never did. We always go to the market and we can tell whether the rice is this year's or last year's. We get last year's rice, bring it home, and consume it. As simple as that. We do not store for personal consumption.

That is what I said at the start of thread, you are far from reality.

I know it because I have worked on the fields. My family grows and stores it. That is why I mentioned the first hand knowledge.