First Battle of Rajasthan - Where Arabs lost to Indians

[nrupatunga]

^^^^ Pardon me. Had heard very little about bappa rawal. Wiki says that he was part of the battle of rajasthan against the arabs i.e. the topic of this thread. But this battle was fought by chalukyas against arabs. Was he(his kingdom) also part of the army under chalukyas??

This article totally skips the arab encounter but mentions about a town built by bappa.

A town was also developed under Bappa Rawal called Eklingji (later renamed Kailashpuri).

But this article says

Mohammed Bin Qasim was able to defeat Dahir in Sindh but was routed by Bappa Rawal. Qasim attacked Chittor, which was ruled by Mori Rajputs, via Mathura. Bappa, of guhilote dynasty, was a commander in Mori army and so was Dahir's son. Bappa defeated and pursued Bin Qasim through Saurashtra and back to Sindh. After this resounding defeat of the caliphate at the hands of Bappa in 712 A.D., Sindh mulsims paid tribute to Hindu rajputs.

Chittor is rajasthan while mathura is in UP, i.e. mathura is east of chittor? If arabs came from sind, wont they come acros chittor first and then mathura? Also it says this happened in 712 A.D under mohammed bin qasim itself and bappa is dahir's son. But dahir is a brahmin , but the same article says bappa as guhilote clan of rajputs. Highly confusing.

However this article gives altogether a different narrative.

King Mahendra ruled from the town of Nagda in the southwestern sector of Mewar. However he was impious and inactive in his kingdom`s affairs and unfortunately in 716, he was assassinated. His son, Prince kalbhoj, was only three years old.

Some ancient chroniclers suggested the year was 734, and that Bappa Rawal captured the capital immediately. However, there is evidence that he was 21 when he became the king, and quite a lot occurred before that. Thus it is more than likely the year was 731 when he went to Chittor, when he was only 18 years old. It is said that he arrived in the town below the fort when a fair was in progress, and there he performed a fight that awed Maan Mori and the Paramara nobles

The Paramara king gave his nephew a good reception, enrolled him amongst the fort`s savants and offered a suitable estate to Bappa Rawal. Shortly, Mohammed Bin Kasim, an Arab, attacked Chittor. Maan Mori called upon his subjects to provide an attack force, but instead of obeying the summons they relinquished their grants, and teasingly wanted Maan Mori to call on his favorite. So the Paramara king appointed Bappa Rawal as the commander-in-chief of his army. The youth took the responsibility of the campaign against the Arabs. The chiefs, though expelled of their estates, went along with him from a feeling of shame. The Arabs were defeated and driven out of the country.

Here, it says that bappa fought arabs around early 730's. But by then mohammed bin qasim had died. Both the article say that bappa fought against qasim, but differ on dates? I think bappa drove off arabs from rajputana well before 720. When arabs came back in 730's, they were defeated by chalukyas. After that the next wave of islamic incursions in present day india would be under mahmud ghanzi some 2.5 centuries later.

 

[mikhail]

I never claimed that Duttas were of Arab/iranian lineage. They are warrior Brahmins of India and were the original warriors of Lord Parshuram.
Duttas converted to Sikhism also. I am a Bhardwaj Gotra Brahmin from the Lineage of Dronacharya and settled in Delhi for over 1800 yrs which is what we have been able to trace but it goes even backwards. I did a big study and wasted lot of time and money by compiling these details of my family from the Pandits of Haridwar and Gaya who are the record keepers of most hindu families.

sir can the Pandits of Haridwar and Gaya trace the ancestry of each and every hindu family?i mean i have always wanted to trace my ancestry,although as a Bengali Brahmin of Sandilya Gotra our family has managed to keep the records of the names atleast 14 previous generations as we have to show their names during the time of Upanayana for sacred rituals.sir can you please tell me the whereabouts of some of these Pandits so that i can take their help and reconstruct my family tree going back to about 2,000 years as it has always been my dream to know about my great ancestors who probably came to the Bengal region around 1,400 years ago from Bareilly distict of U.P.

 

[Decklander]

sir can the Pandits of Haridwar and Gaya trace the ancestry of each and every hindu family?i mean i have always wanted to trace my ancestry,although as a Bengali Brahmin of Sandilya Gotra our family has managed to keep the records of the names atleast 14 previous generations as we have to show their names during the time of Upanayana for sacred rituals.sir can you please tell me the whereabouts of some of these Pandits so that i can take their help and reconstruct my family tree going back to about 2,000 years as it has always been my dream to know about my great ancestors who probably came to the Bengal region around 1,400 years ago from Bareilly distict of U.P.

All you need to do is to go to either Gayaji or Haridwarji and meet the pandas who perform last rites of hindus. These pandas are the record keepers of our families. You need to go and tell them your Gotra and place of residence and they will automatically direct you to the Panda who is your family record keeper. Infact so good these giuys are can be judged from the fact that within minutes they will locate the Panda of your family. The way these guys have maintained these records will form a very interesting study for any thesis for doctorate in record keeping. AND these guys have kept the records for god knows since when.
Your parents might also be able to help as whenever any girl child of these Pandas gets married, they normally visit everyfamily for which they keep the records.

 

[Virendra]

^^^^ Pardon me. Had heard very little about bappa rawal. Wiki says that he was part of the battle of rajasthan against the arabs i.e. the topic of this thread. But this battle was fought by chalukyas against arabs. Was he(his kingdom) also part of the army under chalukyas??

Bappa Rawal was a descendant of the 'Guhilot' Rajput clan whose progenitor was 'Guhaditya' of 6th century A.D.
There are many legends surrounding how he got hold of Chittor fort. Some say he was a General of Mori Army and others say he annexed the fort after killing the Mori leader.
Battle of Rajasthan is better understood as a series of battles because Arabs didn't attack just once. They have probably made many multiple thrusts on each front. Notable are a few only. On many occasions the rulers fought on their own (with out any alliances).
First major thrust was around 712 A.D. up north towards Punjab. This was led by Bin Qasim and was blocked jointly by Lalitaditya Muktipada (Kashmir) and Yashovarman (Kannauj).
Next major one is approximately placed between 731 A.D. and 739 A.D. This one was led by Junaid and involves places of Rajasthan such as Chittor and of Gujarat such as Navasari and parts of Malwa as well.
Bappa wasn't a Governor in that war.
He was acting as a King and had his own federation of armies going on with small allies of Rajputana (Ajmer, Jaisalmer etc) to resist the Arabs across the entire region.
The others like Chalukyan prince Pulakesi, Pratihara King Nagabhatta and Rashtrakita King Dantidurga were all ruling south of Bappa in parts of south Rajasthan, Gujarat and Malwa. The wiki article on Battle of Rajasthan involves the Malwa/Gujarat battles as well and hence the confusion.
Though one cannot rule out some sort of co-ordination between Bappa and others. Because Muktipada+Yashovarman and Nagabhatta+Pulakesi are very well corroborated contemporary alliances against Arabs.
So all this may quite probably have been a grand loose alliance fighting on multiple fronts in co-ordination.

Here, it says that bappa fought arabs around early 730's. But by then mohammed bin qasim had died. Both the article say that bappa fought against qasim, but differ on dates? I think bappa drove off arabs from rajputana well before 720. When arabs came back in 730's, they were defeated by chalukyas. After that the next wave of islamic incursions in present day india would be under mahmud ghanzi some 2.5 centuries later.

Bappa wasn't Dahir's son.It was Jaisimha who kept fighting inconsistenly for years before converting to Islam. He was eventually killed by Arab Governor Junaid.
Except a few thrusts of Junaid, most of all the Arab advances met with utter failure.

Some ancient chroniclers suggested the year was 734, and that Bappa Rawal captured the capital immediately. However, there is evidence that he was 21 when he became the king, and quite a lot occurred before that. Thus it is more than likely the year was 731 when he went to Chittor, when he was only 18 years old. It is said that he arrived in the town below the fort when a fair was in progress, and there he performed a fight that awed Maan Mori and the Paramara nobles

The Paramara king gave his nephew a good reception, enrolled him amongst the fort`s savants and offered a suitable estate to Bappa Rawal. Shortly, Mohammed Bin Kasim, an Arab, attacked Chittor. Maan Mori called upon his subjects to provide an attack force, but instead of obeying the summons they relinquished their grants, and teasingly wanted Maan Mori to call on his favorite. So the Paramara king appointed Bappa Rawal as the commander-in-chief of his army. The youth took the responsibility of the campaign against the Arabs. The chiefs, though expelled of their estates, went along with him from a feeling of shame. The Arabs were defeated and driven out of the country. Here, it says that bappa fought arabs around early 730's. But by then mohammed bin qasim had died. Both the article say that bappa fought against qasim, but differ on dates? I think bappa drove off arabs from rajputana well before 720. When arabs came back in 730's, they were defeated by chalukyas. After that the next wave of islamic incursions in present day india would be under mahmud ghanzi some 2.5 centuries later.

Bappa Rawal a.k.a. Kalbhoj was born in 712-13 A.D. He ruled from 734 A.D. to 753 A.D.
Ascension at throne may even have been in 720s but his retirement at 753 A.D. is the most confirmed date i.e. from Eklinga Mahatmya.
So he could not have fought Bin Qasim. When Qasim came in 712 A.D; Bappa was not even born perhaps.

Looking at it from another angle :-
When Chittor's ruler Man Mori's inscription is of 713 A.D. Bappa would obviously inherit the Kingdom (by whatever means) only a few years after 713 A.D. This means that by the time Bappa takes over Chittor, Bin Qasim was long gone from this world.
I think Bappa's clashes were with Junaid or his likes.

Conclusion :-
a) It is confirmed that Bappa Rawal retired after 753 A.D. and was 18 to 21 years old when he ascended the throne. Now 20 to 30 years of rule would put his career's beginning at 730s or 720s.
b) It is confirmed that Bin Qasim came here in 712 A.D. and died in 715 A.D.
So I don't think Bappa and Qasim faced each other. Bappa fought Junaid IMO.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[harditta]

I never claimed that Duttas were of Arab/iranian lineage. They are warrior Brahmins of India and were the original warriors of Lord Parshuram.
Duttas converted to Sikhism also. I am a Bhardwaj Gotra Brahmin from the Lineage of Dronacharya and settled in Delhi for over 1800 yrs which is what we have been able to trace but it goes even backwards. I did a big study and wasted lot of time and money by compiling these details of my family from the Pandits of Haridwar and Gaya who are the record keepers of most hindu families.

Brother, I wanted to send you a private message but I am new on this forum and so cannot figure it out. Can you please shed some more light on the ancestry of Dutta Brahmins of Punjab? What did you infer from your research based on the records kept at Haridwar? Thanks!

 

[Decklander]

Brother, I wanted to send you a private message but I am new on this forum and so cannot figure it out. Can you please shed some more light on the ancestry of Dutta Brahmins of Punjab? What did you infer from your research based on the records kept at Haridwar? Thanks!

I checked records at Haridwar for only my family. It is probably not allowed to cross check others records if you are not from that family. So can't say much but my wife is a Dutt Mohyal and I got to learn a lot about them from my Father-in-law. He is a typical Mohyal-full of pride who enjoys his whisky and kookked. He retd as IGP JKP.
Mohyal Brahmins & Tyagis were the original generals of Lord Parshram. They became professional warriors. Duttas are from Bhardwaj clan and once upon a time they had fought from Syria to present day Punjab. They are also known as Hussaini Brahmins for helping Hussain in battle of Karbala. Iraq even today has a place called Al-Hindiya where these brahmins used to live. They returned to India and settlled initially in Pnjab and later in Datta Khel of NWFP thereafter again in Punjab and J&K. They were bestowed with title of Khan by the Pashtoons themselves for their outstanding military capabilities. Being Brahmin warriors they were known for their battle tactics and battlefield management. The most decorated officer of Indian Armed forces till date is a Mohyal- Lt. Gen. Zorawar Chand Bakshi PVSM, MVC, VrC,VSM, He also earned Mention-in-Despatches while being part of Baloch Regiment during WW2 in Burma. Even during 1947 partition riots, no muslim ever dared to attack their villages and most of them reached India safely.
Datt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mohyal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.punjabmonitor.com/2013/04/mohiyal-brahmins-ancient-rulers-of.html

 

[Waffen SS]

Arabs simply lost war of Rajasthan because unlike Sindhu this time they did not have 5th column.I dont think they would win against Sindhu if Buddhists did not help them. Raja Dahir was brave, but ruling class(The new Rai dynasty) was disconnected from society, many times Buddhists helped invaders, Raja Dahir's one of Minister was Muslim, he defected. Contemporary Arab accounts tells that. That's it. Lets not forget even in 711 AD. and many times Arabs were defeated by Sindhis again and again.

But I think after wining war of Rajasthan, Indian rulers should have advanced further in Sindh and then expel Arabs from there, Indian rulers fought mainly for self defence, once enemy attack is over, they did not make counter attack on enemy base. For example if Pritthiraj Chauhan, after his victory in first battle of Terain counter attacked in Ghuri help Punjab then, our history might be different.

 

[Virendra]

Indian rulers fought mainly for self defence, once enemy attack is over, they did not make counter attack on enemy base. For example if Pritthiraj Chauhan, after his victory in first battle of Terain counter attacked in Ghuri help Punjab then, our history might be different.

Counter attacks of two kinds can be made on an enemy that is retreated/retreating.
a) Chase him down immediately, from the battlefield itself and hound him to death.
b) Regroup one's army and siege the enemy's Kingdom via a proper campaign.

The first option was tougher for the Indian armies because they weren't as swift, lean and mean as those of the nomadic invaders from northwest. Our native armies had different formations of elephants, cavalry and infantry, making them cumbersome and ineffective in such swift chases of a scoot and shoot (and vice versa) army.
As far as PrithviRaj Chauhan is concerned, after Tarain I, he sieged the Sarhind outpost for thirteen months. Sarhind was the first major incursion of Ghori into PRC's lands.
He had to starve out the 1200 Turkish cavalry garrison of Sarhind, to get that post back. But he returned once the Turk garrison surrendered, as he had to watch his back against his Indian neighbors too.
Prithiviraj couldn't have chased Ghori back to Ghazni without Sarhind step anyway. Because the Sarhind garrison would then cut his logistics, trap and harrass him by constant skirmishes while Ghori came back with a fresh army.
If the Chauhan King had to get Ghori at Ghazni, it was imperative to demolish the garrison at Sarhind first.That is what he did.

After all the civilizational or doctrinal reasons given for native armies lack of ruthlessness; absence of counter raids in enemy regions is also understandable from material viewpoint. There was nothing to loot in the villages under Turkish occupation anyway. The social prosperity there wasn't like India's.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[Simple_Guy]

Yes, people forget that before Ghori there was Ghazni 200 years earlier. He had conquered Punjab from the Hindu SHahs and his descendants had Islamized Punjab in that long 200 period of occupation.

So Prithviraj would have to first conquer and crush all Turki bases in Punjab and NWFP before he could even think of attacking Ghor.

 

[civfanatic]

Many people forget how large the empire of the Ghorids was. Their empire included not only Afghanistan and most of the lands west of the Indus, which formed their base, but also large portions of Iran. The Ghorids thus had a great deal of strategic depth that most of the small, regional Indian states did not have. Even if any of the Indian states somehow defeated the Ghaznavid remnants in Panjab and proceeded across the Hindu Kush to NW Afghanistan, the Ghorids could simply retreat further west into Khorasan and eastern Iran.

No army in world history has successfully invaded eastern Iran or Khorasan from India. Even the British, when they invaded Iran in the Anglo-Persian War of 1856-57, invaded by sea through the Persian Gulf. They were not willing to risk an overland invasion of Iran through Afghanistan, especially after the disaster of the First Anglo-Afghan War.

It should also be mentioned that the "Mohammed Ghori" that most Indians are familiar with, i.e. the one who fought Prithviraj Chauhan in the two Battles of Tarain and conquered the Indo-Gangetic Plain, was not the actual ruler of the Ghorid realm. The actual ruler was his older brother, Ghiyasuddin Mohammed b. Sam, who reigned in the region of Ghor itself. He let his younger brother, Muizuddin, manage the eastern portion of the empire, running from Ghazni to the newly-conquered territories in India, while he handled the western portion of the empire. Amazingly, the brothers did not fight against each other on a single occasion (which was typical of other dynasties), but instead assisted and rendered support to one another. This setup thus proved highly efficient, as it allowed Ghiyasuddin to deal with the more pressing threat posed by the Khwarezmian Turks on the Ghorids' northern frontier, while Muizuddin could focus all his energies on India without worrying about enemies on other flanks.

 

[angeldude13]

you people have very detailed knowledge of history especially virendra sir.

the only thing i knew was if prithvi raj chauhan would have killed ghouri then there would have been no muslim in india

 

[civfanatic]

you people have very detailed knowledge of history especially virendra sir.

the only thing i knew was if prithvi raj chauhan would have killed ghouri then there would have been no muslim in india

There were Muslims in India long before the Ghorids existed. The very first Muslims in India were Arab merchants who settled in coastal South and West India (particularly Kerala).

 

[angeldude13]

There were Muslims in India long before the Ghorids existed. The very first Muslims in India were Arab merchants who settled in coastal South and West India (particularly Kerala).

actually by no muslims i meant no muslim ruler.
next time i would choose my words wisely

 

[civfanatic]

actually by no muslims i meant no muslim ruler.
next time i would choose my words wisely

Well, that is also not really true. There were already Muslim rulers in Panjab and Sindh when the Ghorids began expanding eastwards into the subcontinent.

 

[Virendra]

No army in world history has successfully invaded eastern Iran or Khorasan from India.

On basis of a Dilwara/Delwara historical anecdote, Tod mentions Bappa Rawal going into Iran and defeating the Kings there, marrying their daughters (origin of Naushera Pathans?).

Bappa undertook the conduct of the war, and the chiefs, though dispossessed of their estates, accompanied him from a feeling of shame.
The foe was defeated and driven out of the country ; but instead of returning to Chitor, Bappa continued his course to the ancient seat of his family, Gajni, expelled the ' barbarian ' called Salim, placed on the throne a chief of the Chaura tribe, and returned with the discontented nobles.
Bappa, on this occasion, is said to have married the daughter of his enemy.

An old volume of historical anecdotes, belonging to the chief of Delwara, states that he became an ascetic at the foot of Meru, where he was buried alive after having overcome all the kings of the west, as in Ispahan, Kandahar, Kashmir, Irak, Iran, Turan, and Kafiristan ;
all of whose daughters he married, and by whom he had one hundred and thirty sons, called the Naus-shahra Pathans.
Each of these founded a tribe, bearing the name of the mother. His Hindu children were ninety-eight in number, and were called Agni-upasi Surj'avansi, or ' simborn fire-worsiiippers.'

By the way, Rawalpindi is known to be named after Bappa Rawal. I've been to the wikipage of Rawalpindi and the origin given there is pure BS that gets exposed even on a basic Google search.

But I haven't known or accessed the resources, if they exist at all, to corroborate/verify all these things conclusively; so wouldn't stress on it.

More corroborative than Bappa Rawal are the campaigns of Lalitaditya Muktapida. He gained victories in Turkmenistan, Tocharistan, Tibet, Dardu,
Apart from the information gleaned from Kalhana, even the Chinese pilgrim Ou-k'ong's account mentions that a Turkish prince 'Cankuna' was in the court of Lalitaditya. The latter even had alliance with the Chinese emperor. There were correspondences and an ambassador was sent.
His foreign campaigns seem more of north centered. If and how much he went into proper Iran is not known.

It should also be mentioned that the "Mohammed Ghori" that most Indians are familiar with, i.e. the one who fought Prithviraj Chauhan in the two Battles of Tarain and conquered the Indo-Gangetic Plain, was not the actual ruler of the Ghorid realm. The actual ruler was his older brother, Ghiyasuddin Mohammed b. Sam, who reigned in the region of Ghor itself.

Yes. Ghori gave the same excuse to PrithviRaj Chauhan for not retreating, when he had come back for Tarain II. He said his brother was the King and he couldn't retreat without consulting the brother.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[Decklander]

Bappa Rawal created the city of rawalpind as his forward garrision town in seventh century. Anyone who denies it has read wrong history from some madarssa.

 

[Virendra]

Bappa Rawal created the city of rawalpind as his forward garrision town in seventh century. Anyone who denies it has read wrong history from some madarssa.

I've read and heard this many times. I'm looking for a historical source to confirm this. Do you have any information to share?

 

[civfanatic]

On basis of a Dilwara/Delwara historical anecdote, Tod mentions Bappa Rawal going into Iran and defeating the Kings there, marrying their daughters (origin of Naushera Pathans?).

Tod claims many things, but whether or not his claims are historically valid is a different thing. Mere anecdotes are not historical evidence.

I can believe that Bappa Rawal founded Rawalpindi and invaded up to the modern NWFP, but going into Iran and Iraq is nonsense. The records of 8th-9th century Iran are fairly detailed, and there is no mention of any such incursion or its political aftereffects.

 

[Virendra]

The records of 8th-9th century Iran are fairly detailed, and there is no mention of any such incursion or its political aftereffects.

From that viewpoint even Indian sources don't record an Alexanderian invasion.
But like I said earlier, I was never stressing on it. I am myself looking for more sources as you might've noticed with @Decklander, for Bappa Rawal and Rawalpindi etc.

Regards,
Virendra

 

[civfanatic]

From that viewpoint even Indian sources don't record an Alexanderian invasion.

In that case we at least have some archaeological corroboration. We have Greek coins from NW India, the ruins of Hellenic settlements in the region, and some of the inscriptions of Ashoka (written in Greek) talking about the Greeks in Afghanistan/NW India. Obviously, all of this implies that there was a movement/invasion of Greeks into the region.

In another example, even if no one in medieval India wrote a single text on the history of the period, we would still know that there were Muslim rulers in India simply by looking at the coins, inscriptions, and architecture from the period.

For supposed Indian invasions into Iran we have no evidence whatsoever, besides some folklore.