Finmeccanica Ban May Prove Costly For India: UK Minister

[harsh]

Not scared of any ‘threat’: Government to Finmeccanica

http://idrw.org/not-scared-threat-government-finmeccanica/ .

 

[ezsasa]

Not scared of any ‘threat’: Government to Finmeccanica

http://idrw.org/not-scared-threat-government-finmeccanica/ .

This is second time in three weeks I am saying this " ravi Shankar Prasad should keep his mouth shut on some matter".

 

[harsh]

[QUOTE"ezsasa, post: 1171834, member: 14851"]This is second time in three weeks I am saying this " ravi Shankar Prasad should keep his mouth shut on some matter".[/QUOTE]
These Italian block our way in MTCR . They are not friends. they cannot take make profit from our defence sector while blocking our way.

This is not monni baba government whose is dancing on Italian bar maid fingers.
If they want to fight they will get fight. If want peace they should behave

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

@sob There's an update on this.

All the western bootlickers who were pretending to get offended at the cancellation of the deal under the pretext of national security can now sleep in peace. We have found an alternative to the torpedoes and talks are already on to acquire them. I am sure the establishment considers all these factors before blacklisting anything. Cancelling one specific torpedo deal doesn't mean cancelling the purchase of torpedoes altogether. It's childish to even suggest that just because one deal is cancelled implies that our submarines will be without torpedoes.

 

[Neelkanth]

@sob There's an update on this.

All the western bootlickers who were pretending to get offended at the cancellation of the deal under the pretext of national security can now sleep in peace. We have found an alternative to the torpedoes and talks are already on to acquire them. I am sure the establishment considers all these factors before blacklisting anything. Cancelling one specific torpedo deal doesn't mean cancelling the purchase of torpedoes altogether. It's childish to even suggest that just because one deal is cancelled implies that our submarines will be without torpedoes.

It's not just about torpedoes.

here have a look.

This is for all future acquisition. I'll make a list existing equipment's which will be rendered Useless/compromised if they pull out of existing contract.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

It's not just about torpedoes.

here have a look.
View attachment 8851

This is for all future acquisition. I'll make a list existing equipment's which will be rendered Useless/compromised if they pull out of existing contract.

I don't know about the equipment, but their lobbyists and paid forum spokesmen sure will lose their lucrative source of income and will have to look for alternate employment opportunities once this corrupt company is booted out.

The contracts themselves were signed by violating the sanctity of the Indian acquisition process so the list of equipment doesn't really matter in a legal case against the institutional corruption spread by that company. All neutral observers will first have to come to terms with the fact that it was not a minor slip up or an individual level corruption, it was an act of institutional corruption. Everyone has to be on the same page at least on the hard facts, otherwise there is no point peddling wisdom. No equipment is shiny enough for any nation to illegally undermine their own sovereign laws under the pretext of defending sovereignty. The irony is hard to miss.

The government is answerable to the people as far as their security goes and in turn, as a representative of the people, the government has the prerogative to make decisions, some of which cannot be disclosed out in the open domain due to reasons of secrecy. It is not for the people, or the media, or NGOs with vested corporate interests to bulldoze their way into specific decisions that the government takes and impose their will on the government, under the pretense of national interest. There are certain prerogatives the government has which is a privilege granted to them by virtue of being elected to represent the interests of the people, which allow them to make decisions which cannot immediately be revealed to the public at large at the moment. It is not only a right of the government but their responsibility to keep this sensitive information a secret.

I'm sure they consider all aspects of their decisions when they make them. India is not new to these disinformation campaigns when a sore loser tries to throw a tantrum by trying to provoke naive Indians by misleading them. This happens every time a defense contractor loses a contract.

This also happened when UPA had banned Paypal for violating the rights of Indians, but instead of complying with our laws, Paypal hit Indian bloggers with a disinformation campaign claiming that the Indian government was acting against the interests of Indians by banning Paypal and a lot of naive Indians did fall for it. It later turned out that Indian law requires banks to pay interest to their customers but Paypal was refusing to register itself as a bank to avoid paying interest to Indian users so they refused to comply with our rules and were banned. It's the same thing with these foreign weapons companies. The truth lies elsewhere, but disinformation under the garb of 'concern for India's interests' reigns supreme.

None of these companies give a hoot about Indian interests, these are the ones blocking our entry into the MTCR and other multilateral clubs. If they are so concerned about Indian security interests, let them display their commitment by repealing their veto. Until such a time, India cannot do business with these people who threaten our security by adopting anti-Indian postures in various multilateral forums, including, but not limited to the Kashmir. It's like buying weapons from the enemy. Every large weapons sale anywhere in the world comes with a geo-political understanding of each other's sensitivities. Unfortunately, these European nations have failed to display their commitment towards any goodwill.

 

[cannonfodder]

4 them are already announced from the pic and finmecc* is obliged to fulfill the orders and service their products. Finm* need those orders as well and its not one way road.

It's not just about torpedoes.

here have a look.
View attachment 8851

This is for all future acquisition. I'll make a list existing equipment's which will be rendered Useless/compromised if they pull out of existing contract.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

4 them are already announced from the pic and finmecc* is obliged to fulfill the orders and service their products. Finm* need those orders as well and its not one way road.

Most of the things in the list are helicopter deals which have already been replaced by other helicopters.

Russia is setting up a plant for Mi17 and Ka 26 in India, plus our own Dhruv production has doubled in the current year (2015-2016), plus we have ordered Chinooks and Apaches, and Russia is in the process of delivering 50 new Mi17 helicopters and refitting our entire fleet. I just read today that Russia will be refitting 3 Mi26 helicopters as well. In addition to all of that, we are acquiring C295 transport planes and Sarkosky naval helicopters. We will be fine.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

It's not just about torpedoes.

here have a look.
View attachment 8851

This is for all future acquisition. I'll make a list existing equipment's which will be rendered Useless/compromised if they pull out of existing contract.

Many of these were not signed?? But even if they were I don't think they impact any strategic programs in the slightest. Mostly helicopters something India should be able to make?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Tit for tat

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/3-ii...-detained-in-northern-italy-1414938?site=full

3 IIT students wrongfully detained in northern italy

 

[Neelkanth]

I don't know about the equipment, but their lobbyists and paid forum spokesmen sure will lose their lucrative source of income and will have to look for alternate employment opportunities once this corrupt company is booted out.

The contracts themselves were signed by violating the sanctity of the Indian acquisition process so the list of equipment doesn't really matter in a legal case against the institutional corruption spread by that company. All neutral observers will first have to come to terms with the fact that it was not a minor slip up or an individual level corruption, it was an act of institutional corruption. Everyone has to be on the same page at least on the hard facts, otherwise there is no point peddling wisdom. No equipment is shiny enough for any nation to illegally undermine their own sovereign laws under the pretext of defending sovereignty. The irony is hard to miss.

The government is answerable to the people as far as their security goes and in turn, as a representative of the people, the government has the prerogative to make decisions, some of which cannot be disclosed out in the open domain due to reasons of secrecy. It is not for the people, or the media, or NGOs with vested corporate interests to bulldoze their way into specific decisions that the government takes and impose their will on the government, under the pretense of national interest. There are certain prerogatives the government has which is a privilege granted to them by virtue of being elected to represent the interests of the people, which allow them to make decisions which cannot immediately be revealed to the public at large at the moment. It is not only a right of the government but their responsibility to keep this sensitive information a secret.

I'm sure they consider all aspects of their decisions when they make them. India is not new to these disinformation campaigns when a sore loser tries to throw a tantrum by trying to provoke naive Indians by misleading them. This happens every time a defense contractor loses a contract.

This also happened when UPA had banned Paypal for violating the rights of Indians, but instead of complying with our laws, Paypal hit Indian bloggers with a disinformation campaign claiming that the Indian government was acting against the interests of Indians by banning Paypal and a lot of naive Indians did fall for it. It later turned out that Indian law requires banks to pay interest to their customers but Paypal was refusing to register itself as a bank to avoid paying interest to Indian users so they refused to comply with our rules and were banned. It's the same thing with these foreign weapons companies. The truth lies elsewhere, but disinformation under the garb of 'concern for India's interests' reigns supreme.

None of these companies give a hoot about Indian interests, these are the ones blocking our entry into the MTCR and other multilateral clubs. If they are so concerned about Indian security interests, let them display their commitment by repealing their veto. Until such a time, India cannot do business with these people who threaten our security by adopting anti-Indian postures in various multilateral forums, including, but not limited to the Kashmir. It's like buying weapons from the enemy. Every large weapons sale anywhere in the world comes with a geo-political understanding of each other's sensitivities. Unfortunately, these European nations have failed to display their commitment towards any goodwill.

I do agree with all the points that you have said. but it won't still fire a gun, you can't debate the your enemies to halt their assault. and it is not that they will wait till we are at full readiness , At the end of the day if the guns falls silent and the nations well being is threatened, all these are pointless.

Always remember : धर्मो रक्षति रक्षितः

And if we go by what you have said, Russia has ripped us off for decades selling its junk we should throw all that too along with Russian? And Please don't repeat the line "Russia is friend" so its okay for it to rip us off., infact if you look at China a 100% of all its current weapons are Russian (modified) who do you think gave it the tech ? and China is far bigger threat to us than any of our Neighbors.

and the world isn't a fair place, it never was, it never will be. Finmeccanica should have been phased out, where as existing system could have functioned till it service life. Out right banning is fool hardy. Why create a spectacle of something that can be done discretely. The world follows only one rule : जिसकी लाठी उसकी भैंस and in case of our scenario we have very few लाठी suppliers.

Single vendor contracts cannot be awarded so we will have to make do with inferior weapons. which may cost us more than the righteousness... and yes Either that or we need to show the middle finger to the world and make our own weapons, do we have the tech or the manufacturing capacity ? State craft is not for the faint hearted or the good hearted, its amoral. Without having a full alternative to Finmeccanica, banning... is not a masterstroke. simple.

 

[Neelkanth]

Many of these were not signed?? But even if they were I don't think they impact any strategic programs in the slightest. Mostly helicopters something India should be able to make?

A war is set of tactical moves resulting in to a strategic one. We cannot let our Tactical preparedness be compromised or rendered less potent in what they were before.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

I am always puzzled by how small nations with less that 10 million population produce top of the line weapons and India which claims to graduate millions of engineers has to buy even small weapons like guns,bullets or heavy machine guns?

 

[Neelkanth]

4 them are already announced from the pic and finmecc* is obliged to fulfill the orders and service their products. Finm* need those orders as well and its not one way road.

Obliged ? What if they ban doing business with India as a policy and say "We will not sell to you, keep your contract" then what ? they are free to..not they are a factory in Yamunanagr that govt can force them in to obligation.

 

[Neelkanth]

I am always puzzled by how small nations with less that 10 million population produce top of the line weapons and India which claims to graduate millions of engineers has to buy even small weapons like guns,bullets or heavy machine guns?

The junk Qulaity of Millions that we produce you mean ? and the thousands of IITians who were not given opportunity to excel because of system and in the name of Social justice. Our R&D spending is peanuts. You pay peanuts you get monkeys.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Obliged ? What if they ban doing business with India as a policy and say "We will not sell to you, keep your contract" then what ? they are free to..not they are a factory in Yamunanagr that govt can force them in to obligation.

What if they did the deal then they denied parts later?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

The junk Qulaity of Millions that we produce you mean ? and the thousands of IITians who were not given opportunity to excel because of system and in the name of Social justice. Our R&D spending is peanuts. You pay peanuts you get monkeys.

This system will not change it is corrupt intentionally . Accept it that it will
Always be like this .

 

[LETHALFORCE]

A war is set of tactical moves resulting in to a strategic one. We cannot let our Tactical preparedness be compromised or rendered less potent in what they were before.

When you are a customer buying weapons from others you have compromised your tactical preparedness from the start.

 

[Neelkanth]

What if they did the deal then they denied parts later?

Banning will take it there, there is method to weed out problems Knee jerk reactions are better avoided.

This system will not change it is corrupt intentionally . Accept it that it will
Always be like this .

I have not said corruption but the lack of opportunities to retain talent, and the paltry funding to R&D. Russia is unimaginably corrupt but they do produce their own weapons... isn't it ?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Banning will take it there, there is method to weed out problems Knee jerk reactions are better avoided.



I have not said corruption but the lack of opportunities to retain talent, and the paltry funding to R&D. Russia is unimaginably corrupt but they do produce their own weapons... isn't it ?

All the superpowers produce their own weapons this is what separates them from the rest of the world.