Finland wants to join Russia

Akim

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If you read the article to which i linked, even though linguistic genocide is not in the convention, the definition was never contended.

This is, however, a sidetrack from the the subject of the thread, so I will leave the sidetrack at this.

I'm not touching the whole topic, because I know that Finland will NEVER enter voluntarily into Russia or even the Eurasian Union. NEVER!
P.S.
When we lived in the Soviet Union, we looked enviously at the Finnish and Swedish socialism. In the USSR there were a lot of Finnish goods. Prestigious it was to have a collection of books, printed on Finnish paper.
 
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adam7

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I'm not touching the whole topic, because I know that Finland will NEVER enter voluntarily into Russia or even the Eurasian Union. NEVER!
P.S.
When we lived in the Soviet Union, we looked enviously at the Finnish and Swedish socialism. In the USSR there were a lot of Finnish goods. Prestigious it was to have a collection of books, printed on Finnish paper.
You are correct on this subject.

Actually Finland had a barter trade agreement with the Soviet Union. That meant that there was trade agreements, where it was agreed what to trade. Mostly our import was raw materials, like oil, gas, metals etc. Our export was both consumer goods, clothing,shoes, furniture, some food (like Viola cheese) etc. The problem was to find other goods than raw materials to balance the trade. Weapon systems were one class, locomotives, and some other technical goods were others. We even bought to nuclear power plants from USSR (not the Chernobyl type) but all the control systems were bought from the West, mostly from Siemens.

What isn't usually spoken of, is that most of the consumer goods went to the nomenklatura or connected people.

BTW, we don't define the economic system either in Sweden or Finland as "socialism". We define it as market economy, even though there are elements for income transfers.

.....

I guess this thread has more or less run its course, since nobody is claiming that there would be popular wishes in Finland to join Russia.
 

amoy

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Certainly no Finns are interested if by living standard . Actually there's lots of confusing info regarding Russian economy.

I didn't go on the planned tour to Russia somehow but my parents who went ahead told many old people had to work after retirement to make ends meet. The average monthly salary in Moscow and St Petersburg is around 2000-3000RMB only. 1 EURO=6.87RMB :confused1: Is it true?

Fyi in China --
 

jouni

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Certainly no Finns are interested if by living standard . Actually there's lots of confusing info regarding Russian economy.

I didn't go on the planned tour to Russia somehow but my parents who went ahead told many old people had to work after retirement to make ends meet. The average monthly salary in Moscow and St Petersburg is around 2000-3000RMB only. 1 EURO=6.87RMB :confused1: Is it true?

Fyi in China --
You are right, many pensioners work in Russia to get by. Also after this crisis many salaries are cut in Russia by at least 30%. I would say average salary in Russia range from 300 to 600 Euro a month. In Moscow a little higher. Teachers and doctors at the bottom of the scale. Military at the upper.Finland the average salary is over 3000 € a month.
 

pmaitra

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Certainly no Finns are interested if by living standard . Actually there's lots of confusing info regarding Russian economy.

I didn't go on the planned tour to Russia somehow but my parents who went ahead told many old people had to work after retirement to make ends meet. The average monthly salary in Moscow and St Petersburg is around 2000-3000RMB only. 1 EURO=6.87RMB :confused1: Is it true?

Fyi in China --
You are right, many pensioners work in Russia to get by. Also after this crisis many salaries are cut in Russia by at least 30%. I would say average salary in Russia range from 300 to 600 Euro a month. In Moscow a little higher. Teachers and doctors at the bottom of the scale. Military at the upper.
Alternatively, Russia could allow immigrants from Central Asia to live and work in Russia, tax them, and then use that money to pay the old people in Russia. However, is that a demographic risk worth taking?

Russia already has a very large immigrant population.

Russia is doing the right things. Russia for Russians, and no demographic time bomb.

Paying the military very high is also meaningful. Must pay the military high. That way, no one will defect with high tech Russian weapons systems. Why pay teachers and doctors, when past experience shows that so many of them got free education in the USSR, but ran away to the west to earn money when the USSR collapsed?
 

Akim

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You are right, many pensioners work in Russia to get by. Also after this crisis many salaries are cut in Russia by at least 30%. I would say average salary in Russia range from 300 to 600 Euro a month. In Moscow a little higher. Teachers and doctors at the bottom of the scale. Military at the upper.Finland the average salary is over 3000 € a month.
You every year buying a new car? The prices for food in Russia is lower.You can't compare salaries in € or $.
 

Akim

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Actually after the crisis many food items are cheaper in Finland than in Russia...

http://www.esaimaa.fi/Online/2015/04/14/Tomaatit Viipurissa kalliimpia kuin Suomessa — ruoan%20hinta%20on%20noussut%20rajusti%20Venäjällä/2015118898786/4
Maybe. You know better. From Transnistria are going to buy products in the Odessa region, because they are 2 times cheaper. And from the occupied Crimea is "sausage tourism", because in the Kherson region the products are 2.5 times cheaper. However, in Russia many foods are cheaper than in Europe.


P.S. Need to consider - how much bread you can buy on my salary. I can buy 630 loaves /0.7 kg.
 
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sorcerer

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1) Vladimir Putin ‘wants to regain Finland’ for Russia, adviser says


After annexing Crimea and with troops massed on the border of Ukraine, Vladimir Putin will not stop trying to expand Russia until he has “conquered” Belarus, the Baltic states and Finland, one of his closest former advisers has said.

According to Andrej Illarionov, the President’s chief economic adviser from 2000 to 2005, Mr Putin seeks to create “historical justice” with a return to the days of the last Tsar, Nicholas II, and the Soviet Union under Stalin.

Speaking to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet, Mr Illarionov warned that Russia will argue that the granting of independence to Finland in 1917 was an act of “treason against national interests”.

“Putin’s view is that he protects what belongs to him and his predecessors,” Mr Illarionov said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladimir-putin-wants-to-regain-finland-for-russia-adviser-says-9224273.html

==

2) Russia warns Finland against joining NATO

Do Finland want to start World War III? It's something to think about if Finland wants to join NATO, warns Russian President Vladimir Putin's personal envoy Sergei Markov.
It's not Russian hatred against Finland, but if Finland joins NATO, it shows that the country has a Russia-complex, said Markov, who is a political scientist, to the newspaper Hufvudstadsbladet.
- If Finland wants to join NATO, they should think first . Will you join and start World War III? Anti-Semitism started World War II. Russofobien can start a third. Finland is one of the most russofobiske countries in Europe, after Sweden and the Baltic countries, says Markov to the Finnish newspaper.
He calls the Russofobi in Finnish media "despicable" and says he has stopped reading translations from Finnish media. He cites the phrase "this could lead to the Russian influence increases" as an example of what he calls Russofobi.
In the same interview Markov predicts that the eastern part of Ukraine, including Donetsk, Luhansk, Charkiv, Odessa, Dnipropetrovsk and Zaporozjie are going to form a new federation to be named Novorossija.


http://norwaytoday.info/home_view.php?id=11410

3)Scared By Russia, Sweden And Finland Make War Pact

The defense ministers of Sweden and Finland announced Thursday a new military cooperation agreement that could see the two countries go to war together in the event of an attack. The new relationship comes amid ongoing aggressive behavior from Russia in the region. Neither country is a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) alliance, whose charter stipulates that an attack on one member is an attack on all, mandating a reaction from every allied nation.
http://www.ibtimes.com/scared-russia-sweden-finland-make-war-pact-1821906

4)Once a taboo, Nato membership now a hot topic in Finland

Four years ago, when Finland’s current government came to power, Nato membership was deliberately ruled out.

Now, with a new government set to come to power after elections on Sunday, Nato membership — once a taboo subject in the Nordic nation — is being anxiously discussed.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/613f0600-e425-11e4-9039-00144feab7de.html

5)Is It Time For Finland to Join NATO?
Last week, Finland's new government announced that they will explore the possibility of NATO membership. While wariness is still evident in Finland's public and membership likely a ways off, the government's clear focus on NATO underscores the serious threat they face from an aggressive Russia. Helsinki's stance makes a full exploration of the benefits of future Alliance membership by its policy makers more crucial than ever.

http://nationalinterest.org/b
log/the-buzz/it-time-finland-join-nato-13044




===

Now to put things into perspective.

If this latest article on post #1 is a followup news on this media dance...its to be understood that they got the thing rolling.

IMO, its a structured propaganda to get the collective Finland psych into joining NATO and moving up against Russia Vis-a-Vis Ukraine.

Now Finland got a reason to come out of their barracks with Barrack Obama.

Well!!!! this is how perceptions are shaped for new world orders.. :D :D

..
..
May the Gods keep the wolves in the hills and the women in our beds!
..
..
 

Akim

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@sorcerer
Not read never Illarionov. He's a bad analyst.

Continued to post 188. The city bus can drive - 1833, tram - 3665 times.
 
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sorcerer

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@sorcerer
Not read never Illarionov. He's a bad analyst.
Noo..I dont really care about the writer or who wrote it cuz most of them have a specific set of objectives which they churn out to the media.

I just pointed out the way a certain propaganda is taking shape
 

Akim

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Noo..I dont really care about the writer or who wrote it cuz most of them have a specific set of objectives which they churn out to the media.

I just pointed out the way a certain propaganda is taking shape
Its aim is the overthrow of Putin's power. Therefore, he seeks to intimidate Western society. Putin will not climb in Finland without final solution of the "Ukrainian question".
 

sorcerer

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Its aim is the overthrow of Putin's power. Therefore, he seeks to intimidate Western society. Putin will not climb in Finland without final solution of the "Ukrainian question".
Absolutely the propaganda is to kill the name before the bloc tries to displace Putin.
From Gladiator - the Movie: "You have a great name. He must kill your name before he kills you."
 

amoy

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Alternatively, Russia could allow immigrants from Central Asia to live and work in Russia, tax them, and then use that money to pay the old people in Russia. However, is that a demographic risk worth taking?

Russia already has a very large immigrant population.

Russia is doing the right things. Russia for Russians, and no demographic time bomb.

Paying the military very high is also meaningful. Must pay the military high. That way, no one will defect with high tech Russian weapons systems. Why pay teachers and doctors, when past experience shows that so many of them got free education in the USSR, but ran away to the west to earn money when the USSR collapsed?
A tourist's perspective can be different naturally. Exchange rate fluctuates always, 1RMB = 8++ Rubles, at the time of going, now =9+ Rubles.

When u laud "Russia for Russians", do u suggest Russia undo the "demographic time bomb" by dislodging the massive C. Aisan immigrants? Then what would u propose practically as replacement in order to avoid a labor shortage and a steep revenue fall?

Apart from economic implications those immigrants could also be one of crucial ties to maintain Russia's clout in the former Soviet domain. Besides beating the nationalistic drum of "XXX for XXXX" can backfire - don't forget 30-40% of Kazakhstan populace is Russian, needless to mention the Baltic.

When MANY pensioners are noticed as still working the Q raised is not only about possible workforce deficit, but also their pensions/savings barely cover their living expenses probably. Is it an upbeat phenomenon for Russians, that being the case?
 

jouni

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We are happy to give our land to Russians,
Its aim is the overthrow of Putin's power. Therefore, he seeks to intimidate Western society. Putin will not climb in Finland without final solution of the "Ukrainian question".
Replacing Putin is not maybe helping. Siloviki has iron claws around Russian people. Maybe 10-20% of Russians can think like westeners and want to develop their country, the rest: believe anything the ruling class tells them. My view about the future of Russia is quite dark. They continue to descend. The weight of totaliarism of Czar, Soviets and Putin is just too heavy.
 

adam7

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Organisation that teaches Karelian to kids now "foreign agent"
The aim was to start daycare with "language roosts", meaning that only Karelian would be spoken, which gives a good allround knowledge of the language. Moscow forbade this with grounds that it would lead to "ethnic segregation", so now 30-40 % is in Russian, which will lead to poor language skills in the minority language.

Remeber that these kids mostly get Russian at home and everywhere else. Russian authorities don't seem to want to understand that one language more is not taking away the dominant language in society.

Again we see an example of fear for other languages than Russian in Russia.


http://www.hs.fi/ulkomaat/a1436670117866?jako=aee20f9306da8bd42456ef1be0170c42
 

adam7

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Maybe. You know better. From Transnistria are going to buy products in the Odessa region, because they are 2 times cheaper. And from the occupied Crimea is "sausage tourism", because in the Kherson region the products are 2.5 times cheaper. However, in Russia many foods are cheaper than in Europe.


P.S. Need to consider - how much bread you can buy on my salary. I can buy 630 loaves /0.7 kg.
Putin decided on "countersanctions, now we see the result
http://7city.org/main/24700-petersb...e-in-a-spare-wheel-sausages-from-finland.html
 

pmaitra

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A tourist's perspective can be different naturally. Exchange rate fluctuates always, 1RMB = 8++ Rubles, at the time of going, now =9+ Rubles.

When u laud "Russia for Russians", do u suggest Russia undo the "demographic time bomb" by dislodging the massive C. Aisan immigrants? Then what would u propose practically as replacement in order to avoid a labor shortage and a steep revenue fall?

Apart from economic implications those immigrants could also be one of crucial ties to maintain Russia's clout in the former Soviet domain. Besides beating the nationalistic drum of "XXX for XXXX" can backfire - don't forget 30-40% of Kazakhstan populace is Russian, needless to mention the Baltic.

When MANY pensioners are noticed as still working the Q raised is not only about possible workforce deficit, but also their pensions/savings barely cover their living expenses probably. Is it an upbeat phenomenon for Russians, that being the case?
No, I do not suggest dislodging Central Asian migrants, but I also think importing hordes of immigrants just to pay for the old is not a sound policy, and is going to backfire in the long run. Whatever there is, fine, and it does act as a bridge with Central Asia.

The phenomenon is not upbeat for most people around the world these days.
 

Sakal Gharelu Ustad

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Paying the military very high is also meaningful. Must pay the military high. That way, no one will defect with high tech Russian weapons systems. Why pay teachers and doctors, when past experience shows that so many of them got free education in the USSR, but ran away to the west to earn money when the USSR collapsed?
The way many Indians have run away after having free education!!!
 

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