Ex-Lavi chief calls joint development program with Russia and India for new fighter

luckyy

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Ex-Lavi program manager and minister of defense Moshe Arens writes in Haaretz today that Israel would be better off launching a joint development program with Russia and India to build a new fighter rather than spend $11 billion to buy 75 Lockheed Martin F-35s

Are there alternatives to swallowing our pride and shelling out $3 billion for 20 F-35s? (The original plan had been to acquire 75 aircraft, which would have brought the price above $11 billion, but that was too expensive. ) Before we make that commitment, a little intellectual effort should be invested in looking at other options.

Does Israel still have the technological capability to design a first-rate fighter aircraft? That needs to be examined in some depth. No doubt some of the capability that existed at the time of the Lavi project has been lost over the years, but as has been proved time and again, Israel has a world-class technological capability. Its success in unmanned aerial vehicles is only one of a number of examples.

If it turns out that the capability to design the IAF's next fighter aircraft does exist in Israel, where could we go from there? Not to the U.S. Congress in search of funding, because we would have to remind them that 27 years ago they were fools to invest $1 billion in the development of the Lavi that Israel decided it did not want. We would have to look for partners who are prepared to invest resources in such a project, who have the necessary technological capability, and who are not involved in the F-35 project.

Are there such candidates? In theory, yes. France, with a great aeronautical industry, chose not to participate in the F-35 project. India, with a considerable aeronautical capability and a meteorically growing economy, might be another candidate. And there is Russia. Perhaps none of them would be interested, and perhaps all of them would be. It's worth a try.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2010/07/ex-lavi-chief-calls-for-new-fi.html
 

wild goose

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The US Govt. will be really pi$$ed off with Israel if they ditch F-35, that too for a fighter development with the Russians. It will be one hell of a decision.
 

neo29

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US wont be angry with Israel since they already interested in F-15 silent eagle owing to costs and delays of F-35. Matter of fact Israel was forced to dis-abandon the Lavi project coz US refused to finance it and that it will effect the F-16 exports.

It will be beneficial to India if Israel and India work together on MCA project. Already we are working on FGFA with Russia. Another 5th gen fighter developed with israel will be added advantage and India will be the only country after US to have 2 types of 5th gen fighters.
Israeli technology combined with India's technology, a deadly combination. The outcome will be the deadliest fighter the world will ever see. I pray this happens.
 

SHASH2K2

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One thing is for sure that this statement has raised serious doubts about potential of F-35 . We already have news of some critical components failing .
 

tarunraju

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Not a safe move for Russia-India joint development to include Israel. Remember, Lavi tech is what ended up skeletoning Chinese gen-4 fighters.

India's investments in fighter development is sealed for now. LCA, FGFA, that's it.
 

SHASH2K2

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Not a safe move for Russia-India joint development to include Israel. Remember, Lavi tech is what ended up skeletoning Chinese gen-4 fighters.

India's investments in fighter development is sealed for now. LCA, FGFA, that's it.
You forgot to mention our own 5th generation program which is yet to start. May be Israel can contribute to that . But definitely Russia should not be there . we need to use knowledge gained in FGFA to our 5th generation program.
 

tarunraju

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You forgot to mention our own 5th generation program which is yet to start.
Nah, indigenous 5th gen fighter program is far away. Israel urgently needs a 5th gen fighter it can call its own (and hence buy many for cheap). Hence it's seeking to squeeze into PAK-FA/FGFA development between Russia and India. It isn't wise letting Israel in. It can anytime defect and leak vital IP to China.
 

SHASH2K2

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Nah, indigenous 5th gen fighter program is far away. Israel urgently needs a 5th gen fighter it can call its own (and hence buy many for cheap). Hence it's seeking to squeeze into PAK-FA/FGFA development between Russia and India. It isn't wise letting Israel in. It can anytime defect and leak vital IP to China.
I think Israelis are more interested in F15 stealth due to low cost. . They are also aware than one one will allow them in a mature development program . Moreover its not an official statement and doesn't carry much weight.
 

wild goose

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But the LAVI project was shelved before they transfered the know hows to China,

And may be by letting China get any info, they will be harming themselves because the Chinese do sell weapons to potential adversaries of Israel.

And this new aircraft if comes into existence is going to compete with the F35 sales, so the US has a real reason to pull the strings on Israel.
 

tarunraju

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But the LAVI project was shelved before they transfered the know hows to China,
Exactly, and that's what makes Israel an unreliable partner. China is struggling to come up with anything worthwhile after buying/stealing essential aircraft designs from Israel and Russia.

And no, J-10 tech didn't reach those potential adversaries, Pakistan isn't that much of an adversary. China can afford to throw a few billion dollars Israel's way for giving it any useful IP.
 

sayareakd

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let them be partner in AMCA............. we need some partners for that project.
 

wild goose

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They will cheat on US to make themselves look important. Israel has a ton of IP it gained from US collaboration.
Then they might loose both US and India.

Hope this never happens. We can't afford a Tiger Woods in Israel.
 

Neil

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Israel is not a major participant
yeah but Israel does need US approval for such deals as Israel defence is US aided-both as monetary or technology...
and we all know the answers.....
 
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yeah but Israel does need US approval for such deals as Israel defence is US aided-both as monetary or technology...
True but Turkey is a also participating in the program and they are a bigger participant. Maybe there is a conflict and Turkey wants Israel out??
 

Neil

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True but Turkey is a also participating in the program and they are a bigger participant. Maybe there is a conflict and Turkey wants Israel out??
Turkey future relations with all the western world is uncertain.....so even if it is a participant it knows any amount on pressure is not going to help it....
US is loyal to Israel and will always be....it does expects the same though.....
 
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Turkey future relations with all the western world is uncertain.....so even if it is a participant it knows any amount on pressure is not going to help it....
US is loyal to Israel and will always be....it does expects the same though.....
Israel is selling UAV'S to Russia and India is Israel biggest arms buyer. This should not be an issue if Israel wants to do something independently?? USA has more or less kept Israel out of any plane development since they sold LAVI program to China.
 

sandeepdg

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I think it would not be a bad idea if Israel is involved in our MCA project. Considering the expertise of Israel in the field of aeronautics and weapons development, it would be an immense technological boost to our capabilities and might help us better the design of the MCA, thereby making it truly world-class. Leaking of the LAVI aircraft tech to the Chinese is an issue, but it can be made clear to the Israelis that any such adventure can cost them their entire defense partnership with us. That ought to be a big blow to them, loosing such an important and huge customer ! But then again, since this is not an official statement, it can be hardly taken seriously as of now.
 

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