European court rules against Russia on 1940 Katyn massacre

pmaitra

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Almost correct, but there are errors in the translation. Where did you get it from?
 

shuvo@y2k10

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why are all of you forgetting jalianwala bagh massacre which happened in india by the lecturers of human rights.
 

spikey360

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I thought you were calling the punishment of Poland for its "sins" in the other thread? I asked what sins? Then I posted this thread just to expound my view on the matter.

As I said earlier this incident still plays a prominent role (there are other incidents no doubt) in the current European relations. I think only those distinctly naive and irredeemably pro-Russia will think that POlish insistence on the NATO ABM defense has nothing to do with it.
Exactly, the Poles should pay for their sins. For playing the victim card. For flirting with Nato and getting pregnant with a bastard called European Missile Shield.
You say it plays a big role in Polish-Russian relations. Sure it does. Just like the holocaust exaggeration playing a big role between Israel and the West. Frankly, if they don't stop playing the victim card, they're gonna become victims again, which they deserve to be.
I reiterate, good job compiling all this pro Polish pro Jewish anti Russian bullshit. You'll make your American masters very proud.
 

Ray

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I think all the EU Courts and other such courts are sinecures for ageing Judges and more of a propaganda tool.

All nations in the world will have some such incident in their history.

Will Russia bother?

Russia will open a Russian Court of Human Rights and they will start probing all massacres done in history by Colonial Powers and that won't be hard to prove either.

It is only the weak Nations whose leaders are hauled up and sentenced, like Charles Taylor of Liberia or what was done and is still being done to the Serbian leaders.

Some Islamic Nations feel that Bush and the US is guilty of war crimes and human rights abuses in Iraq and elsewhere,

How far will people go with such tomfoolery?
 

asianobserve

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I think all the EU Courts and other such courts are sinecures for ageing Judges and more of a propaganda tool.

All nations in the world will have some such incident in their history.

Will Russia bother?

Russia will open a Russian Court of Human Rights and they will start probing all massacres done in history by Colonial Powers and that won't be hard to prove either.

It is only the weak Nations whose leaders are hauled up and sentenced, like Charles Taylor of Liberia or what was done and is still being done to the Serbian leaders.

Some Islamic Nations feel that Bush and the US is guilty of war crimes and human rights abuses in Iraq and elsewhere,

How far will people go with such tomfoolery?
I'm not your human rights naive activist. I have no illusions about the state of World human rights affairs, especially for those powerful countries, I'm merely stating one of the compelling reason for Polish attitude against Russia (I know we have a sizable Russia-huggers here in this forum).
 

asianobserve

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Exactly, the Poles should pay for their sins. For playing the victim card. For flirting with Nato and getting pregnant with a bastard called European Missile Shield.

Look who's talking. That's from someone prone to bashing the Brits for pillaging and massacring Indians (the Poles no doubt commiserates with your experience)... :rolleyes:
 

spikey360

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Look who's talking. That's from someone prone to bashing the Brits for pillaging and massacring Indians (the Poles no doubt commiserates with your experience)... :rolleyes:
Here's where you show yourself to be a complete fool. Have you ever heard Indian officials and Government condemning Britain and setting up phony courts and reopening cases against ghosts? That's never done. India doesn't play the victim card, because even though it was the Britishers injustice to have ruled over us, the Indians themselves did a far greater injustice to their motherland for failing to protect her in the first place and then failing to thwart their rule summarily. Ofcourse, we more than made up for that by kicking them out absolutely. Eliminating their influences and finally becoming stronger than them in every respect. When India engages with Britain, it is as peers. We don't have the master slave relationship that Malaysia thrives upon with the West and those Poles with Nato. I also welcome you to point out one post where I've bashed poms for ruling India. You can't. That's cause, its not done by sensible people in India, rather we introspect on our own failures at that time rather than playing the victim card like you and your friends.
NB: i'm surprised at your inability to counter me properly and relying on ad hominems only, instead.
 

asianobserve

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NB: i'm surprised at your inability to counter me properly and relying on ad hominems only, instead.
What hominem? Did I call you anything? I did it to the Chinese guy but he deserved it (I'm not fond of that device you know).

And not countering you properly? Blaming Russia for the cowardly massacre (which really happened) perpetrated by its predecessor-in-interest, I don't think is a sin (this is your term). It happened and Russia did not even restitute the families of the victims yet...

Anyway, Russia has no business controlling Poland or any of its neighbors. History and Russia have not been so kind to Poland. This missile shield though not specifically aimed at Russia (at least that's what Pentagon is saying) is fully justified in the eyes of the Poles and there's nothing Russia can do about it. Instead of making amends for its past mistakes Russia is threatening Poland... way to go Kremlin! Keep on dreaming of your past Empire!
 
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pmaitra

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Blaming Russia for the cowardly massacre (which really happened) perpetrated by its predecessor-in-interest, I don't think is a sin (this is your term). It happened and Russia did not even restitute the families of the victims yet...
The Polish-Lithuanian invasion also involved killing many civilians. Was that not cowardly act?

Anyway, Russia has no business controlling Poland or any of its neighbors.
And the Polish-Lithuanian Confederation had no business invading and occupying Moscow.

History and Russia have not been so kind to Poland.
History has been harsh on all civilizations at different points in history. So what? Should Russia open a lawsuit against Germany for Hitler's invasion of the USSR? Or should Russia open a lawsuit against Poland for the Polish-Lithuanian invasion?

When the Russians were weak, the Poles invaded Russia; when Poland was weak, Russia invaded Poland. Survival of the strongest, as simple as that.

This missile shield though not specifically aimed at Russia (at least that's what Pentagon is saying) is fully justified in the eyes of the Poles and there's nothing Russia can do about it.
Of course it is aimed at Russia. Even PRC has ICBMs, why isn't the US setting up missile shields in countries bordering PRC?

Instead of making amends for its past mistakes Russia is threatening Poland... way to go Kremlin! Keep on dreaming of your past Empire!
Creating a buffer zone of littoral countries after having lost 26 million people? No, it was not a mistake. Any sensible person with the power and wherewithal would do it. I would do it. My country and my people first.
 

asianobserve

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So what? Should Russia open a lawsuit against Germany for Hitler's invasion of the USSR?
Didn't the USSR received war reparations from Germany?

Or should Russia open a lawsuit against Poland for the Polish-Lithuanian invasion?
Oh, digging skeletons from the closet... it was Poland and Lithuania and Poland paid many times over when it was annexed by Imperial Russia until WW1. Then in 1919 it was invaded by Lenin, and in 1940 by Lenin's successor and his new best friend Mr. Hitler...
 
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asianobserve

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Of course it is aimed at Russia. Even PRC has ICBMs, why isn't the US setting up missile shields in countries bordering PRC?
Exactly the point. The missile defense shield is aimed at protecting Europe from Iran, and we know the track record of Islamic Iran on terrorism. There is no similar threat in the Pacific.
 

pmaitra

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Didn't the USSR received war reparations from Germany?
If they did, I am not aware. All I know is that USSR gobbled up a third of Germany and kept it as its vassal, and divided the capital Berlin, as war booty, in other words, a buffer zone. I also know that both the US and USSR dumped money into West and East Germany to keep them in their own blocs.



Oh, digging skeletons from the closet... it was Poland and Lithuania and Poland paid many times over when it was annexed by Imperial Russia until WW1.
Yes, digging skeletons from the closet, and you have posted many such pictures in this thread.

I am sorry those Poles died, but it is not okay to feel sorry for the Poles killed by Russians and ignore it the other way around. Sorry if this upsets you, but I like being fair.

Alternatively, you may accept that all's fair in love and war.
 

pmaitra

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Exactly the point. The missile defense shield is aimed at protecting Europe from Iran, and we know the track record of Islamic Iran on terrorism. There is no similar threat in the Pacific.
You mean the US is losing sleep over Iran threatening Europe but has no concerns about PRC, much more powerful, or North Korea, much closer, who could hit the US itself? If what you said were true, then I think the US cares more about Europe than itself.
 

asianobserve

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BTW my friend I'm able to make a much deeper dig, here I'll share it with you:

"In the 16th century the Grand Duchy of Moscow continued activities aimed at unifying the old Rus' lands still under Lithuanian rule. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania had insufficient resources to counter Moscow's advances, already having to control the Rus' population within its borders and not being able to count on loyalty of Rus' feudal lords. As a result of the protracted war at the turn of the 15th and 16th centuries, Moscow acquired large tracts of territory east of the Dnieper River. Polish assistance and involvement were increasingly becoming a necessary component of the balance of power in the eastern reaches of the Lithuanian domain.[46]

Under Vasili III Moscow fought a war with Lithuania and Poland between 1512 and 1522, during which in 1514 the Russians took Smolensk. That same year the Polish-Lithuanian rescue expedition fought the victorious Battle of Orsha under Hetman Konstanty Ostrogski and stopped the Duchy of Moscow's further advances. An armistice implemented in 1522 left Smolensk land and Severia in Russian hands. Another round of fighting took place during 1534–1537, when the Polish aid led by Hetman Jan Tarnowski made possible the taking of Gomel and fiercely defeated Starodub. New truce (Lithuania kept only Gomel), stabilization of the border and over two decades of peace followed.[46]
"

History of Poland during the Jagiellon dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now who is the aggressor?
 

asianobserve

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You mean the US is losing sleep over Iran threatening Europe but has no concerns about PRC, much more powerful, or North Korea, much closer, who could hit the US itself? If what you said were true, then I think the US cares more about Europe than itself.
Let's just say that the PRC is way more rational than Iran. IN the Pacific it is NoKor that share Iran's image...
 

pmaitra

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BTW my friend I'm able to make a much deeper dig, here I'll share it with you:

"In the 16th century the Grand Duchy of Moscow continued activities aimed at unifying the old Rus' lands still under Lithuanian rule. The Grand Duchy of Lithuania had insufficient resources to counter Moscow's advances, already having to control the Rus' population within its borders and not being able to count on loyalty of Rus' feudal lords. As a result of the protracted war at the turn of the 15th and 16th centuries, Moscow acquired large tracts of territory east of the Dnieper River. Polish assistance and involvement were increasingly becoming a necessary component of the balance of power in the eastern reaches of the Lithuanian domain.[46]

Under Vasili III Moscow fought a war with Lithuania and Poland between 1512 and 1522, during which in 1514 the Russians took Smolensk. That same year the Polish-Lithuanian rescue expedition fought the victorious Battle of Orsha under Hetman Konstanty Ostrogski and stopped the Duchy of Moscow's further advances. An armistice implemented in 1522 left Smolensk land and Severia in Russian hands. Another round of fighting took place during 1534–1537, when the Polish aid led by Hetman Jan Tarnowski made possible the taking of Gomel and fiercely defeated Starodub. New truce (Lithuania kept only Gomel), stabilization of the border and over two decades of peace followed.[46]
"

History of Poland during the Jagiellon dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now who is the aggressor?
I have discussed and argued this, and much more, with Damian. You can check it. It is in DFI. :p

See the red part? Does it tell you something? The Poles wanted to keep those Russians as vassals, but the Russians would have none of it.

However, I appreciate the hard work you are putting into it.
 

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