Eurofighter vs Rafale

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JAISWAL

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here is an innovative way how rafale is ahead of its compbtitors
VOICE MAGIC
 

DrunkenMaster

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EF has Vtas.... but this discussion isn't a "discussion" anymore, just a Rafale propaganda show and SOURCELESS EF bashing... sorry, but normal people stop with that kind of "argumentation" after kindergarden...
 

Patriot

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French Rafale fires AASM with laser terminal guidance against a high-speed moving target

On Thursday, April 21, French defense procurement agency DGA demonstrated AASM modular air-to-ground weapon against a land target moving at high speed. The test was carried out at the DGA's missile test range in Biscarosse by a production Rafale fighter deployed by the DGA's flight-test center in Cazaux. The AASM was fired from an extreme off-axis angle (90°) at a range exceeding 15 kilometers.

The impact was at a very low angle, against a moving target represented by a laser spot generated by a ground illuminator mounted on a turret, to simulate a vehicle moving at a speed of 80 km/h. Using its algorithms for detection and slaving of the trajectory to the laser spot, plus its excellent maneuverability, the AASM hit its target to within less than one meter.

This firing test demonstrates the AASM Laser's ability to offer 1-meter accuracy against high-speed, agile land or maritime targets. Coupling this performance with its standoff firing capability, the AASM is unrivaled in the market for tactical air-to-ground weapons.

The inertial/GPS/laser-guided version of the AASM is fitted with a semi-active laser seeker, and features algorithms to track fixed or highly mobile targets during the terminal phase. It will enhance the operational flexibility already offered by the AASM family, including two versions that have been qualified for firing by the Rafale multirole fighter: inertial/GPS and inertial/GPS/infrared.

The laser terminal guidance version of the AASM will enter volume production for the French air force and navy starting at the end of 2012.
 

adyonfire4

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I am in all praise for the EF Typhoon its going to win the MMRCA Competition although it seems like Rafale is leading the race but the the underdogs are not behind they will win it.

Reasons-
Higher Max Take-off Weight

Better Supercruise Ability

Lower RCS as compared to Rafale

And the Poor A2G Capabilty every one is talking about really would not effect because IAF does not need at the the moment and even in the near future ,also EF Typhoon's A2G capability is under constant development Tranche by Tranche.

Also it provides better prospect of co-development instead of Buyer-Seller Relationship that Rafale provides

And keeps India independent of keeping too much French Arms in its Inventory.
 

Armand2REP

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I am in all praise for the EF Typhoon its going to win the MMRCA Competition although it seems like Rafale is leading the race but the the underdogs are not behind they will win it.

Reasons-
Higher Max Take-off Weight
Lower combat load = Rafale WIN

Better Supercruise Ability
Same supercruise M 1.1 = DRAW

Lower RCS as compared to Rafale
Lower RCS = Rafale WIN

And the Poor A2G Capabilty every one is talking about really would not effect because IAF does not need at the the moment and even in the near future ,also EF Typhoon's A2G capability is under constant development Tranche by Tranche.
IAF needs a superior A2G capability as bad as Osama needed a bullet in the head. Rafale WIN

Also it provides better prospect of co-development instead of Buyer-Seller Relationship that Rafale provides
EF partners are transitioning to F-35 = Rafale one nation one type WIN

And keeps India independent of keeping too much French Arms in its Inventory.
IAF likes their Mirages, no reason they will not like their Rafales WIN
 

p2prada

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Lower combat load = Rafale WIN
Not a big advantage for the Rafale. The 7.5 tons claimed by EF is plenty.

Lower RCS = Rafale WIN
EF win in terms of airframe LO capabilities. Rafale wins in terms of electronic LO capabilities. We will see what happens when the EF DASS is active.

IAF needs a superior A2G capability as bad as Osama needed a bullet in the head. Rafale WIN
EF may have the same type of strike capability as Rafale once Tranche 3 is active.

EF partners are transitioning to F-35 = Rafale one nation one type WIN
An unfortunate development for EF-2000. Only India can save the program. :becky: :3

IAF likes their Mirages, no reason they will not like their Rafales WIN
May not influence the final decision for all you know. It's appears to be an equal game with a slight tilt towards Rafale because of more mature technologies.
 

Armand2REP

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Not a big advantage for the Rafale. The 7.5 tons claimed by EF is plenty.
No fighter goes out with a max load, usually 60% of max which gives Rafale a 1500kg advantage in real war.

EF win in terms of airframe LO capabilities. Rafale wins in terms of electronic LO capabilities. We will see what happens when the EF DASS is active.
Not even... Rafale by its very nature is a smaller plane = lower RCS. Both use similar RAM coats, Rafale has stealthier inlets... Rafale WIN.

EF may have the same type of strike capability as Rafale once Tranche 3 is active.
Partner nations are getting bigger or less defence budgets? Less does not equal more!

An unfortunate development for EF-2000. Only India can save the program. :becky: :3
EF nations are saving money for F-35s, Typhoon is obsolete to them so no money for it.

May not influence the final decision for all you know. It's appears to be an equal game with a slight tilt towards Rafale because of more mature technologies.
Industrial and operational track record go a long way to forming future decisions. GoI knows Dassault, Thales and Snecma... they like them. Getting into partnership with the wishy-washy EF consortium posses all kinds of problems, most of which are clearly detailed in the last NAO report. :becky:
 

ace009

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Wishy washy EF consortium? Come on Armand, that is a low blow!
 

p2prada

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No fighter goes out with a max load, usually 60% of max which gives Rafale a 1500kg advantage in real war.
Not entirely true. MTOW is not necessary and that is obvious. Nobody wants that level of stress on the airframe. Anyway a basic 6 AAM package or a basic 4-8 1000lb LGBs is all they will carry.

Only bigger aircraft like F-15, Su-30 or SH can carry a little extra as compared to EF or Rafale because of superior size and thrust. But then again, it is not necessary. For eg: F-15E carries 11 tons of external payload and that is not a particularly big advantage over, say the Su-30Mk4.

Not even... Rafale by its very nature is a smaller plane = lower RCS. Both use similar RAM coats, Rafale has stealthier inlets... Rafale WIN.
EF is a lot cleaner in the frontal aspect. Open source suggests EF is twice as stealthy as Rafale. However both will need ECM to hide themselves. SO, it's not a big advantage. Since the EF DASS is more modern than Spectra, it may have the advantage.

EF nations are saving money for F-35s, Typhoon is obsolete to them so no money for it.
The F-35 is primarily a strike aircraft. They will need an air superiority aircraft to complement the F-35's capability. Both Italy and UK have planned for only that. A big complement of EF-2000s with a smaller strike complement of F-35s.

Other nations may standardize on the Silent Eagle or any other fifth gen alternative.

Industrial and operational track record go a long way to forming future decisions. GoI knows Dassault, Thales and Snecma... they like them. Getting into partnership with the wishy-washy EF consortium posses all kinds of problems, most of which are clearly detailed in the last NAO report. :becky:
This is the biggest advantage for Rafale. In terms of technology, both are quite similar.
 

weg

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The F-35 is primarily a strike aircraft. They will need an air superiority aircraft to complement the F-35's capability. Both Italy and UK have planned for only that. A big complement of EF-2000s with a smaller strike complement of F-35s.
Italy is getting the VTOL version of the F-35's becuase there is simply no alternative on their small carriers to replace the Harriers. UK is getting the conventional carrier take-off F-35, partly becuase its more capable than the VTOL F-35. However, UK is sticking with the f-35 becuase of the massive workshare its getting for a tiny (fixed) part of investment (it paid $4billion), plus its got 40% share of the alternative f-35 engine. As you said, the F-35 is not really a fighter aircraft, its far to big.
 

Armand2REP

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Not entirely true. MTOW is not necessary and that is obvious. Nobody wants that level of stress on the airframe. Anyway a basic 6 AAM package or a basic 4-8 1000lb LGBs is all they will carry.
Sure... Rafale carries 3X 2000L drop tanks, plus 6X AASM as a standard load



Eurofighter carrying LGBs requires a designation pod centre line cutting off her largest fuel tank with only 2 1000kg tanks left. They are only flying two bombs over Libya.



Only bigger aircraft like F-15, Su-30 or SH can carry a little extra as compared to EF or Rafale because of superior size and thrust. But then again, it is not necessary. For eg: F-15E carries 11 tons of external payload and that is not a particularly big advantage over, say the Su-30Mk4.
Su-30 isn't even the same category for terms of external payload. Her only real advantage is large internal fuel which frees up a couple heavy pylons for weapons. Her downside is the need for so many pods to carry out her mission... ECM, Laser, Kh-59 datalink or Anti-radiation. Once you put a decent bomb load on it, there are not enough medium pylons for BVRAAMs. Mix and match really isn't in the cards making it a single role plane.

EF is a lot cleaner in the frontal aspect. Open source suggests EF is twice as stealthy as Rafale. However both will need ECM to hide themselves. SO, it's not a big advantage. Since the EF DASS is more modern than Spectra, it may have the advantage.
Source from a Dassault engineer said Rafale was 10X stealthier than a Mirage-2000 which gives it an excepted RCS of 0.3m^2. Eurofighter is accepted as slightly larger around 0.5m^2. EADS never mentioned what it was but considering it uses the same technologies as Rafale and has more surface area and larger canards, that is common. Rafale wins hands down in thermal signature...


The F-35 is primarily a strike aircraft. They will need an air superiority aircraft to complement the F-35's capability. Both Italy and UK have planned for only that. A big complement of EF-2000s with a smaller strike complement of F-35s.
And so what? With F-35 taking the strike role and recon role, there isn't much impetus to invest in an omnirole Eurofighter. That is why the grand Phase 2 upgrade was canceled for more intermediate additions if and when funding is made available. France has only one plane type taking over 6 different types: Rafale is replacing SEM (naval strike), Crusader (naval air superiority) Mirage F1 (recon), M2000N (nuclear), M2000D (strike) and M2000C (air superiority). All the money goes into one plane with no one to squabble with, it is a serious PLUS for Dassault.

This is the biggest advantage for Rafale. In terms of technology, both are quite similar.
Actually it is the second advantage. The first is always going to be cost and Rafale is cheaper per unit and per flight hour.
 
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weg

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Actually it is the second advantage. The first is always going to be cost and Rafale is cheaper per unit and per flight hour.


Wow, Rafale is wonderful, it must be the greatest fighter aircraft in the world. How come no country has bought a single aircraft?
 

JBH22

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Wow, Rafale is wonderful, it must be the greatest fighter aircraft in the world. How come no country has bought a single aircraft?
France has less clout than USA.So let's see

Rafale lost in South Korea to F-15 (Practically impossible for any other country to have any leverage against Uncle Sam there)
Rafale lost in Singapore to F-15 (same situation there)
Rafale lost in Morocco to F-16 (Price tag and US clout)
 
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France has less clout than USA.So let's see

Rafale lost in South Korea to F-15 (Practically impossible for any other country to have any leverage against Uncle Sam there)
Rafale lost in Singapore to F-15 (same situation there)
Rafale lost in Morocco to F-16 (Price tag and US clout)
Rafele is a strong contender in the Brazilian MRCA.
 

Armand2REP

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France has less clout than USA.So let's see

Rafale lost in South Korea to F-15 (Practically impossible for any other country to have any leverage against Uncle Sam there)
Rafale lost in Singapore to F-15 (same situation there)
Rafale lost in Morocco to F-16 (Price tag and US clout)
It is interesting to note that both in S. Korea and Singapore... Rafale was shortlisted against the late model F-15s while Eurofighter was kicked out both times. Now that US influence and more importantly the worthless US dollar is not around to sabotage Rafale, I am quite confident. Eurofighter was also not shortlisted by Brasil...
 

weg

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It is interesting to note that both in S. Korea and Singapore... Rafale was shortlisted against the late model F-15s while Eurofighter was kicked out both times. Now that US influence and more importantly the worthless US dollar is not around to sabotage Rafale, I am quite confident. Eurofighter was also not shortlisted by Brasil...
Yes, the Rafale has been 'kicked out' of every attempt it has had to sell. Nearly is not a success. No chance of any aircraft other than American being sold in South Korea, as the Koreans said when the shit hits the fan, you can't depend on the French to come and fight for you.

Brazil needs a carrier based aircraft which rules out the Eurofighter by definition, thats the Rafale's best chance, if its not sabotaged by the over strong Euro. The Euro hasn't stopped Airbus making huge international sales against Boeing.
 

JBH22

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Rafele is a strong contender in the Brazilian MRCA.
That was when LULA was president

Yes, the Rafale has been 'kicked out' of every attempt it has had to sell. Nearly is not a success. No chance of any aircraft other than American being sold in South Korea, as the Koreans said when the shit hits the fan, you can't depend on the French to come and fight for you.

Brazil needs a carrier based aircraft which rules out the Eurofighter by definition, thats the Rafale's best chance, if its not sabotaged by the over strong Euro. The Euro hasn't stopped Airbus making huge international sales against Boeing.
What Rafale offers us best is a stable platform derived from manufacturer whose previous product MIRAGE-2000 gave good a/c of itself in IAF service plus as you mentioned it has already a carrier version(quite attractive feature)
The French are less fussy with what the IAF wants to do with their plane after sale unlike US..I've always preferred the Rafale for the MMRCA but then i would prefer the best plane to win it...:becky:
 
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