Early Mauryan temples discovered in Hardoi

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Shaitan

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North India proper. You can add Sindh and Pak Punjab into this. There is already too much diversity within these borders alone.



East India proper

 

MAYURA

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I do realize that this forum is full of west and south indians who because of present situation think that they have been always leaders in india. time for shock.

The term ancient india is used to denote india till 650 ad.

So let us

1. collect works written by south indians till 650 ad? Is there anything substantial ? no.

2. Empires formed there . well, we have chalukya and satvahana empire but they pale before maurya, sunga and gupta empire.

3. coins issued by south indian kingdoms in that period in comparison to north .

4. cultural influence. zero on north whereas north shaped south indian culture immensely.


so in what way south was superior ? I am talking of period from 2500 bc to 650 ad a period of 3 thousand years.
 

pmaitra

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IMHO,

Biharis are not North Indians. Moreover, it is a misconception that Biharis are Hindi speaking, and that is perhaps due to the fact there exists a concept of Hindi-Belt. The fact is, the native language of Biharis is Maithili and Bhojpuri (shared with Eastern UP). Maithili is very similar to Bengali, and quite far from Hindi. There is a dialect of Bengali, as used by Bharatchandra Ray Gunakar, which is almost indistinguishable from Maithili.

I have lived in Patna. If one goes to the railway station or the market, out of 10, 5 will speak in Maithili, 4 will speak in Bhojpuri, and 1 will speak in Hindi.
 

Shaitan

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I do realize that this forum is full of west and south indians who because of present situation think that they have been always leaders in india. time for shock.

The term ancient india is used to denote india till 650 ad.

So let us

1. collect works written by south indians till 650 ad? Is there anything substantial ? no.

2. Empires formed there . well, we have chalukya and satvahana empire but they pale before maurya, sunga and gupta empire.

3. coins issued by south indian kingdoms in that period in comparison to north .

4. cultural influence. zero on north whereas north shaped south indian culture immensely.


so in what way south was superior ? I am talking of period from 2500 bc to 650 ad a period of 3 thousand years.
Who cares about South Indians???

I have said this..

Deccanese and East Indians are the imperial Indians. Did I say South Indians??

These are the ones who created the largest empires, created the best art, etc, etc, etc.

Mauryas, Sungas, Guptas, Palas, Kalingas, etc are not North Indians. They are East Indians.

Who on earth considers Bengalis, Biharis, Odishas, etc North Indians??




Magadha isnt a North Indian kingdom what so ever.
 
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MAYURA

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There are definitely differences between North India, deep South, Western-Deccan, East India, South-East India, etc. without a shadow of a doubt.

Just because their languages are related doesnt mean everything. Even today there is big difference between Bengalis and Pashtons who speak to Indo-Aryan langs.
check wiki for a start man where you would find mauryas, guptas and sungas under heading north india. when i said north india, i meant gangetic plains not pakistani region which was not considered aryavrata.
and pashto is an iranian language. you are getting ridiculous.



There are differences between Bengalis, Bihairs, etc to Western UPs, Punjabis, Rajasthanis, etc, etc, etc. and other North Indians.
Again gangetic plains are north india and i stand by what i say. if you too acknowledge its superiority, there is no fight.
 

MAYURA

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These are the ones who created the largest empires, created the best art, etc, etc, etc.

Mauryas, Sungas, Guptas, Palas, Kalingas, etc are not North Indians. They are East Indians.

Who on earth considers Bengalis, Biharis, Odishas, etc North Indians??

So all our fight was due to interpretation of north.

by north i meant gangetic plains mostly and if you too acknowledge its importance, there is no confusion.

btw, The region from delhi to kolkata in ancient times was centre of india and that is what i meant.



Tell biharis as east indians etc. to wiki and correct and edit it.
 

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And I have said North India and Pakistan have always been screwed by outsiders.








etc
etc
etc
 

pmaitra

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check wiki for a start man where you would find mauryas, guptas and sungas under heading north india. when i said north india, i meant gangetic plains not pakistani region which was not considered aryavrata.
and pashto is an iranian language. you are getting ridiculous.




Again gangetic plains are north india and i stand by what i say. if you too acknowledge its superiority, there is no fight.
Yes, you are correct in a way, that the entire Indo-Gangetic Plain is considered North India; as a matter of fact, if we have to strictly stick to North and South, only Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Tamil Nadu, and Kerala would be South India and the rest, North India.

If we look at the culture of Sikkim, Bhutan, Arunachal Pradesh and Ladakh, they are very similar, but Ladakh is far off. Also, if we consider Bihar, Bengal, Orissa, and Assam, we will see they are very similar.

It all depends upon how much we generalize.

Practically speaking, Bihar, Jharkhand, Bengal, Assam, would be considered East, while Sikkim, Arunachal Pradesh, Meghalaya, Mizoram, Nagaland, Manipur would be considered North-East, and Tripura would be included in both. Similarly, when we speak of North Indian culture, we can include most of North India, but we cannot include Ladakh, or Lahaul and Spiti.

India is diverse, and I don't think this simplistic North-South Classification does justice to India's diversity.
 
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Shaitan

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So all our fight was due to interpretation of north.

by north i meant gangetic plains mostly and if you too acknowledge its importance, there is no confusion.

btw, The region from delhi to kolkata in ancient times was centre of india and that is what i meant.



Tell biharis as east indians etc. to wiki and correct and edit it.


You're out of your mind if you think you can lump together all of these people as "North Indians". You cant even do that today let alone back then.

Especially the ones in the Indus to the ones in the eastern side.
 
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MAYURA

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IMHO,

Biharis are not North Indians. Moreover, it is a misconception that Biharis are Hindi speaking, and that is perhaps due to the fact there exists a concept of Hindi-Belt. The fact is, the native language of Biharis is Maithili and Bhojpuri (shared with Eastern UP). Maithili is very similar to Bengali, and quite far from Hindi. There is a dialect of Bengali, as used by Bharatchandra Ray Gunakar, which is almost indistinguishable from Maithili.

I have lived in Patna. If one goes to the railway station or the market, out of 10, 5 will speak in Maithili, 4 will speak in Bhojpuri, and 1 will speak in Hindi.

And how does bihari bhojpuri differ from bhojpuri i speak? the fact is that this debate is very old as all languages are full of dialects like nagpuriya prevalent in jharkhand.

in bhojpuri of my city if you have to say I am hungary and i would eat, you would say

" bhukhal hai aur khana khab"
in nagpuriya of jharkhand you would say that

" bhukhal hiau aur khana khabau"


differences yes but as much as as between telegu and tamil no.
 

pmaitra

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And how does bihari bhojpuri differ from bhojpuri i speak? the fact is that this debate is very old as all languages are full of dialects like nagpuriya prevalent in jharkhand.

in bhojpuri of my city if you have to say I am hungary and i would eat, you would say

" bhukhal hai aur khana khab"
in nagpuriya of jharkhand you would say that

" bhukhal hiau aur khana khabau"


differences yes but as much as as between telegu and tamil no.
I agree with what you are saying. That is why I said Eastern UP shares Bhojpuri with Bihar. Also, there is another language called Chhaparia, but then, this is what people of Chhapra district always claim, but I have not been able to distinguish it from Maithili.

Now, between Telugu and Tamil, I think there are more differences, than between Tamil and Malayalam, but then, people form those regions are better informed to comment on that.
 

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There's the European plain. But you know damn right there are big difference between North, Eastern, Central, etc. Europe,



Just like you know damn right there are big differences between the Eastern, and Northern parts of South Asia.
 

MAYURA

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I agree with what you are saying. That is why I said Eastern UP shares Bhojpuri with Bihar. Also, there is another language called Chhaparia, but then, this is what people of Chhapra district always claim, but I have not been able to distinguish it from Maithili.

Now, between Telugu and Tamil, I think there are more differences, than between Tamil and Malayalam, but then, people form those regions are better informed to comment on that.
I agreed with you last times as well as now. my whole point was that indo gangetic plain is more homogenous than deccan and south india linguistically.

A bengali is more related to a UPian than say a marathi is to a tamil.
 

Shaitan

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A bengali is more related to a UPian than say a marathi is to a tamil.
What about a Sindi, Punjabi to a Bengali, Bihari?? Massive differences.

Even within UP some are more related to the eastern side others to the Northern side. Obviously depending on location.
 

MAYURA

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What about a Sindi, Punjabi to a Bengali, Bihari?? Massive differences.

Even within UP some are more related to the eastern side others to the Northern side. Obviously depending on location.
I said that greatest empires of ancient india were formed in north india by which i meant indo gangetic plain and so there is no confusion now.

have you seen wiki where lists of indian kingdoms are given? correct it .

Also tell historians like VA smith and RC majumdar( they are dead but correct their books) to start calling magadha an east indian empire .

Best of luck
 

MAYURA

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What about a Sindi, Punjabi to a Bengali, Bihari?? Massive differences.

Even within UP some are more related to the eastern side others to the Northern side. Obviously depending on location.
A sindhi is different to a bengali but not as much as a marathi is to a tamil. Infact a marathi is more similar to a UPian than a tamil.
 

MAYURA

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Now, between Telugu and Tamil, I think there are more differences, than between Tamil and Malayalam, but then, people form those regions are better informed to comment on that.
Just 1000 years ago, tamil was spoken in modern day tamil nadu as well as kerala and present day kerala had a language called "senthamil" meaning chaste tamil.

How this separation happened is unknown to me.

Similarly telegu and kannada are related more to each other but in their case it is older so far as separation is concerned.
 

Shaitan

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A sindhi is different to a bengali but not as much as a marathi is to a tamil. Infact a marathi is more similar to a UPian than a tamil.
Ummmm.... It is just as different. You're fooling yourself if you think other wise.

I said that greatest empires of ancient india were formed in north india by which i meant indo gangetic plain and so there is no confusion now.
Those kingdoms are most definitely East Indians my friend. I dont have anything against N. Indians, etc. It's just that you can break India up into many sections. (North, South East, South, Deccan, etc.) One thing you do not mix is North Indian regions like Punjab with East Indian regions like Bihar. No flat land is ever going to change that fact.

You might as well add Manipur to North India then.
 

pmaitra

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Those kingdoms are most definitely East Indians my friend. I dont have anything against N. Indians, etc. It's just that you can break India up into many sections. (North, South East, South, Deccan, etc.) One thing you do not mix is North Indian regions like Punjab with East Indian regions like Bihar. No flat land is ever going to change that fact.
Ok, this is just a joke.

What is "South East?" All I can think of is the Bay of Bengal, the "Fish Empire." :lol:
 
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