Early Mauryan temples discovered in Hardoi

[MAYURA]

Multiple factors in tandem: Facing the full onslaught of Islamic invasions (Arab,Turk, Central-Asian origin), the dominant & peace-nik religion bore the brunt; particularly, their presence being more concentrated in Northern India. While the more de-centralized & geographically diffused Hindu-ism had a Renaissance of sorts, partial credit goes to the impact of Bhakti-like movements. Shaiva, Vaishnav, Shakt, Tantrik & similar traditions had deeper roots among the masses. Oh come on, I do not see any suspense here. It is mentioned all over the history text-books :thumb:

People have been so thoroughly brainwashed that they fail to notice a very important point raised by you.


the point is that caste system, shaktism and shaivism had more appeal to indian masses than a Luxuriant vihar based meditating religion with high flown jargon on nirvana.

if one reads sangam literature one finds that tamilians from cowherders who worshipped krishna by name of kannan to farmers who worshipped indran were all hindus.

buddhism is hardly present there and whatever presence it had , that too withered away when bhakti sects made it incumbent upon elites to take note of hindu sects.




If people imagine that a farmer and a tribal from bengal will be more prone to worshipping a godless sect which is vihar centered with deep meditation rather than nature god or kali, they are beyond help.


the truth is that buddhism was never a mass religion but was a urban cult which vanished when significant chunk of patronage was withdrawn by gupta rulers.

 

[Shaitan]

First image of Buddha is as old as 100 BC from Kushana period Coin

There is no historical evidences of this but a religion does not disappear overnight from it's birthplace...
We know how islam spread in world by uprooting local religions but there is no significant mention as to how Buddhism disappeared from India..

Kushans didnt exist in 100BC. They were a tribal group called Yuezhi and they didnt take in Buddhism yet. Most of the Buddhist art coming from the Kushans are from 1st-3rd century AD. And there is no image of the Buddha that far back. He is only shown through symbols.

 

[MAYURA]

Kushans didnt exist in 100BC. They were a tribal group called Yuezhi and they didnt take in Buddhism yet. Most of the Buddhist art coming from the Kushans are from 1st-3rd century AD. And there is no image of the Buddha that far back. He is only shown through symbols.

Are you ilstewise?

if not sorry for the question as i saw similarity between you and that man on another forum and he too was from USA specializing in early buddhist art.

 

[Shaitan]

Are you ilstewise?

if not sorry for the question as i saw similarity between you and that man on another forum and he too was from USA specializing in early buddhist art.

:cool2:

Yeah

 

[MAYURA]

:cool2:

Yeah

Really ?

I never had such an accurate guess for someone on internet.

 

[Shaitan]

Really ?

I never had such an accurate guess for someone on internet.

Yeah, from which forum? Wildfire or the history forum?

 

[MAYURA]

Yeah, from which forum? Wildfire or the history forum?

Historum which banned you and me for petty reasons.

I am avantivarman if you recall as I was only person to support you on need to demolish Gateway of india and place there ashoka chakra a massive one.

 

[civfanatic]

Historum which banned you and me for petty reasons.

I am avantivarman if you recall as I was only person to support you on need to demolish Gateway of india and place there ashoka chakra a massive one.

Are you also the guy "vikas"?

The style of English writing is the same (broken and divided) as well as the ideology.

 

[pmaitra]

First image of Buddha is as old as 100 BC from Kushana period Coin

There is no historical evidences of this but a religion does not disappear overnight from it's birthplace...
We know how islam spread in world by uprooting local religions but there is no significant mention as to how Buddhism disappeared from India..

I see an uncanny resemblance of the script in the coin and the Roman Alphabet. Is this for real?

What I see (on the left of the coin): B-O-D-D-O

 

[civfanatic]

I see an uncanny resemblance of the script in the coin and the Roman Alphabet. Is this for real?

What I see (on the left of the coin): B-O-D-D-O

Yes, that is a Kushan coin of I believe Kanishka the Great. The Kushans were originally an Iranic tribe from western China who migrated/invaded to Bactria and then to Gandhara (Northwest India). These regions were the former bastions of the Indo-Greeks and Greco-Buddhism, and when the Kushans established their empire they adopted/patronized the Greco-Buddhist traditions of their predecessors. Among other things, this included using the Greek script and initially the Greek language (later changed to Bactrian) in official coins and inscriptions, along with a Hellenized image of the Buddha (the image/idol of the Buddha did not exist in "native" Indian Buddhism; this was a Greek innovation).

The actual Kushan kings themselves probably were not Buddhist, with the possible exception of Kanishka. Their family religion was probably an Iranic religion similar to Zoroastrianism. Some kings, like Vima Kadphises, seem to have been Shaivites or at least patrons of early Shaivism. I say this based on the numerous gold coins depicting Shiva and Nandi.

 

[pmaitra]

Yes, that is a Kushan coin of I believe Kanishka the Great. The Kushans were originally an Iranic tribe from western China who migrated/invaded to Bactria and then to Gandhara (Northwest India). These regions were the former bastions of the Indo-Greeks and Greco-Buddhism, and when the Kushans established their empire they adopted/patronized the Greco-Buddhist traditions of their predecessors. Among other things, this included using the Greek script and initially the Greek language (later changed to Bactrian) in official coins and inscriptions, along with a Hellenized image of the Buddha (the image/idol of the Buddha did not the exist in "native" Indian Buddhism; this was a Greek innovation).

The actual Kushan kings themselves probably were not Buddhist, with the possible exception of Kanishka. Their family religion was probably an Iranic religion similar to Zoroastrianism. Some kings, like Vima Kadphises, seem to have been Shaivites or at least patrons of early Shaivism. I say this based on the numerous gold coins depicting Shiva and Nandi.

It could be very well a genuine coin. If written in Greek alphabet, BODDO becomes ΒΟΔΔΟ.

What I used: http://www.typegreek.com/

 

[Shaitan]

It's real.

Pretty much everyone who settled there(Sakas, Kushan, etc.) based their coins around Greek ones.

 

[civfanatic]

Pretty much everyone who settled there(Sakas, Kushan, etc.) based their coins around Greek ones.

IMO, the Kushan gold coins are the most beautiful in all of Indian history. Their craftsmanship is unmatched by any others and rival that of Rome. There should be a thread dedicated entirely to them.

 

[Shaitan]

IMO, the Kushan gold coins are the most beautiful in all of Indian history. Their craftsmanship is unmatched by any others and rival that of Rome. There should be a thread dedicated entirely to them.

Eastern Roman Empire

Roman Empire



I like Roman ones better.

 

[LordOfTheUnderworlds]

Why can't it be a Jain temple ?

everyone conveniently seems to forget that Jainism was also a major religion for long time and frequently patronized by kings. Many temples that are claimed to be converted Buddhist temples (including Tirupati Balaji and Pandharpur Vitthal) are also claimed by Jains to be Jain temples taken over by Brahmins. For my layman's eyes Jain temples and present day Hindu temples look almost same.

Although Shiva temple also sounds fine. Afterall Shiva and Shakti are native Indian deities inseparable from non-Brahminical (Non-Vedic) traditions of Yoga and Tantra .

 

[civfanatic]

I like Roman ones better.

I think these are all comparable to contemporary Roman coins. They are much better than Gupta ones anyway.

 

[Shaitan]

I think these are all comparable to contemporary Roman coins. They are much better than Gupta ones anyway.

Gupta ones arent bad by any means, but not as good as the others. Plus they're not all consistently good.

I dont like the way they made the right hand of the emperor.(sprinkling incense)

compared to

 

[MAYURA]

Are you also the guy "vikas"?

The style of English writing is the same (broken and divided) as well as the ideology.

Yes, I was vikas on that forum.

 

[MAYURA]

The actual Kushan kings themselves probably were not Buddhist, with the possible exception of Kanishka. Their family religion was probably an Iranic religion similar to Zoroastrianism. Some kings, like Vima Kadphises, seem to have been Shaivites or at least patrons of early Shaivism. I say this based on the numerous gold coins depicting Shiva and Nandi.

Vema seems to be shaivite as we have " Param Mahesvara" title associated.

the title was adopted by countless shaiva kings of india. Vasudeva was another kushan king who was a shaiva.


Not sure about kanishka though as his religion seems to be anything later claimed by buddhist partisan sources as mahayana.

 

[civfanatic]

Gupta ones arent bad by any means, but not as good as the others. Plus they're not all consistently good.

Most Gupta coins are crap. There are just a few good ones, namely the one with Chandragupta II riding a horse and some archer types.

Gupta coins, generally speaking, are cheap imitations of Kushan coins. This is especially true for early Gupta coins. Later Gupta coins have a lower degree of Kushan influence, but they are generally of lower quality as well.

These are Later Kushan coins. The one on the bottom belongs to Vasudeva I think. He was the last important Kushan, and the empire began declining under him. This is reflected in the decreasing quantity and quality of coinage. However, even these Late Kushan coins, along with Kushano-Sassanian and Kidarite coins, are easily comparable to Gupta coins, and some cases even superior.

But if you look at the Kushan gold coins of Vima Kadphises, Kanishka, and Huvishka (like the ones that I posted), the Kushan coins are clearly superior to the Gupta issue.