Dutch ban on halal and kosher meat

pmaitra

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Do you know what image doesnt show, on top of the mountain lion, coyote and bob cat, there is the quad consumer, a human being with a M-4 and scope. ;)
Yes, you are right. That is why I said 'non-exhaustive'.
 

Godless-Kafir

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A little bit of sarcasm, and a little bit of truth. I am a dedicated eat all meat lover!
Well i respect your honesty, i eat meat too and the point i raised was not about eating meat or not. So the issue we are discussing is not merely the killing or the non-killing of animals, but the cruelty and hate that are increasing in the world and in each one of us. That is our real problem, isnt it?

Brutality is spreading in the world like a plague, a whole nation is destroyed by its bigger and more powerful neighbor. Cruelty, hate, is the issue, not whether or not one happens to like the taste of meat.

The cruelty, the anger, the hate that exists in ourselves is expressed in so many ways in the exploitation of the weak by the powerful and the cunning in the cruelty of forcing a whole people, under pain of being liquidated, to accept a certain ideological pattern of life; in the building up of nationalism and sovereign governments through intensive propaganda, in the cultivation of organized dogmas and beliefs, which are called religion, but which actually separate man from man. The ways of cruelty are many and subtle.

As the saying goes, "you measure the degree of civilisation of a society by how it treats its weakest members". Just because you have more power in your country over an black man you dont treat him as your slave, that extends to animals as well. The meat i eat does not come out an vacuum, that meat comes from earth where all life is linked and if you miss treat an animal then you miss treat your planet and eventually you will perish. There are civilizations like the Eskimos who kill with reverence and maintain a balance but this is childishness.
 
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Godless-Kafir

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Of course. Do you not? Why do you think lions hunt deers, buffaloes and zebras? If you are so sympathetic with these animals, what do you propose to do to save the lives of these hapless animals who are being hunted by the carnivores for food? These is a food chain and we are all part of it. Either God created this food chain, or if you are an atheist, then nature created them. The food chain is a reality.

One non-exhaustive example:
Again please i considered this in my 1st grade. I am not an hypocrite, its better you read what i posted above in response to Adux. I am not against eatting meat, i eat meat as well, however the supply chain is not the food chain, its an abomination. There is no survivle here, where one animals must kill other to live, its an supply chain for pleasure where a fat over feed human consumes out of an plastic bucket which has no relation to the food chain.

The idea that God created everything for mans pleasure has created the idea that we have an right to miss use nature. One life has to live over the other that the rule of nature and thats normal but when a species kills disproportionately living an imbalance the system,then speaking against it does not make you a vegetarian or a hippie, it just makes you less stupid.
 
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pmaitra

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^^ No, I am not supporting misuse or abuse of nature. Again, just like you are asking me to read the previous post, I will return the favour now. Read my earlier posts (post #29). I have clearly stated that I'd rather animals were stunned and then slaughtered.
 

Godless-Kafir

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^^ No, I am not supporting misuse or abuse of nature. Again, just like you are asking me to read the previous post, I will return the favour now. Read my earlier posts (post #29). I have clearly stated that I'd rather animals were stunned and then slaughtered.
Why do you always miss read an statement and in a hurry to respond. I and lurker baba where arguing what you defend now, to sedate an animal before killing. Why the hell do you waste my time like this with your impatient assumptions! Do you just look at user names and post?
 

Adux

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Well i respect your honesty, i eat meat too and the point i raised was not about eating meat or not. So the issue we are discussing is not merely the killing or the non-killing of animals, but the cruelty and hate that are increasing in the world and in each one of us. That is our real problem, isnt it?

Brutality is spreading in the world like a plague, a whole nation is destroyed by its bigger and more powerful neighbor. Cruelty, hate, is the issue, not whether or not one happens to like the taste of meat.

The cruelty, the anger, the hate that exists in ourselves is expressed in so many ways in the exploitation of the weak by the powerful and the cunning in the cruelty of forcing a whole people, under pain of being liquidated, to accept a certain ideological pattern of life; in the building up of nationalism and sovereign governments through intensive propaganda, in the cultivation of organized dogmas and beliefs, which are called religion, but which actually separate man from man. The ways of cruelty are many and subtle.

As the saying goes, "you measure the degree of civilisation of a society by how it treats its weakest members". Just because you have more power in your country over an black man you dont treat him as your slave, that extends to animals as well. The meat i eat does not come out an vacuum, that meat comes from earth where all life is linked and if you miss treat an animal then you miss treat your planet and eventually you will perish. There are civilizations like the Eskimos who kill with reverence and maintain a balance but this is childishness.
There is utopia, and there is real world. The destruction and power in us can only contained by civilization to an extent. I believe in being true to your being, I believe in secularism, humanity and democracy. Humanity doesnt mean some vegan love parade for me, rather when I have to kill to preserve or progress humanity, I will. Humans and Animals cannot be weighed on the same scale. Therefore matters of Race rights and Animal rights are not equal.
 

Godless-Kafir

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There is utopia, and there is real world. The destruction and power in us can only contained by civilization to an extent. I believe in being true to your being, I believe in secularism, humanity and democracy. Humanity doesnt mean some vegan love parade for me, rather when I have to kill to preserve or progress humanity, I will.
Secularism, humanity, democracy? In other words you want the protection and curtsy for yourself, that which you wont consider towards lesser beings? If say someone uses you as slave would that be utopian to think freedom for yourself?

Again dont use the word Vegan, we r not discussing veganism. We are discussing about how we are progressing, if it is to show no respect towards killing then that progress will kill us in the end, earth is closed system you cant vent the garbage out, we have to face the pollution, disequilibrium and pay the price. So to point that out does not make one anti-progress but just anti stupid.
 

Adux

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Secularism, humanity, democracy? In other words you want the protection and curtsy for yourself, that which you wont consider towards lesser beings? If say someone uses you as slave would that be utopian to think freedom for yourself?

Again dont use the word Vegan, we r not discussing veganism. We are discussing about how we are progressing, if it is to show no respect towards killing then that progress will kill us in the end, earth is closed system you cant vent the garbage out, we have to face the pollution, disequilibrium and pay the price. So to point that out does not make one anti-progress but just anti stupid.
Humans and Animals are not equal, we cannot give them equal rights. Simple. That is how it is everywhere in the world, I think I will take the responsibilities and consequences of killing animals.
 

Godless-Kafir

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Humans and Animals are not equal, we cannot give them equal rights. Simple. That is how it is everywhere in the world, I think I will take the responsibilities and consequences of killing animals.

This is not about being equal, weather you say it or not your not created for any more grander purpose than an garden fly. This is about acting responsibly towards the planet you live in. If a man is an slave and had no rights and where not considered equal can that be justified? Man and man where not considered equal once but when we are dead we are equal anyway. If we keep slaves one day the slavery will reach us and the master will be a slave of some thing else and he to will suffer. Same way if we kill indiscriminately that violence will reach us and we will kill each other. Anyway i dont expect you to see the connection between action and effect or see the big picture.
 

The Messiah

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Well so called "human rights" activists claim being gay is "natural" (not to be confused with "normal") so they should be allowed to marry each other. I dont have any problems with that.

Similarly it is natural for us to consume meat. The core argument being that a living thing must consume another living thing to preserve itself. There is no other way.
 

Adux

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This is not about being equal, weather you say it or not your not created for any more grander purpose than an garden fly. This is about acting responsibly towards the planet you live in. If a man is an slave and had no rights and where not considered equal can that be justified? Man and man where not considered equal once but when we are dead we are equal anyway. If we keep slaves one day the slavery will reach us and the master will be a slave of some thing else and he to will suffer. Same way if we kill indiscriminately that violence will reach us and we will kill each other. Anyway i dont expect you to see the connection between action and effect or see the big picture.
Stop watching the planet of the apes; and you have no big picture just some utopian buggery
 

Ray

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The way things are at it, pigs will fly!
 

pmaitra

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Why do you always miss read an statement and in a hurry to respond. I and lurker baba where arguing what you defend now, to sedate an animal before killing. Why the hell do you waste my time like this with your impatient assumptions! Do you just look at user names and post?
What are you talking about? In fact what have you been smoking? I was responding to your response to Yusuf. You can best use your time if you can read the entire thread from the beginning. Also, I disagree with all those assumptions like animals don't want to die for humans and hence they should not be killed. Is that point clear enough for you?

You can eat just vegetables and survive, what has mass killing animals have to do with survivel now? If its just survivel vegetables are cheaper.

God created animals for us and gave lordship over them? Then how come they dont obey us or are not willing to die?

Also if god created animals for us what use is some deep sea creature which we have never seen before? There are creatures that we haven't seen yet.


Again, before hitting the keyboard, read the thread.
 

Ray

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I am totally against animals being killed.

Eat them alive and raw as you are 'eating' each other here.

Grasshoppers are eaten raw.

Tastes good!
 

shaka

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It is basically a clash of civilisations

Western countries ie Europe and USA together are economically , Militarily and Technologically far stronger than ALL Islamic countries

So they want to rub it in

Whether it is bombing Iraq , Aghanistan and Now Libya ,Sanctions on Iran or harrassing Muslims at airports , it is all the same

Both Muslims and the Christian west know it . It is all about showing off your POWER
You guys are talking of scientific principles and what not You are not getting it

This new rule in not about animal rights or preventing pain to animals .It is about needling Muslims

The Muslim community is being needled because gets provoked easily and hits the street for every thing

Whether it is a new novel or a new film about Islam ,Cartoons ,Ban on Burqa ,Ban on Minarets in Mosques and now this ban on halal meat

It is all about provoking Muslims and then having a showdown
+1

Only one disagreement, common man/woman doesnt understand these things. He/she is just another dumb sheep, ready to be slaved and/or .....
 

shaka

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I think humans should be vegetarian as it is proven we can survive without meat or humans should get off their high horse of rights and all that bull$h.t and everything should be a fair game. What I mean by vegetarian is that we shouldn't harm a conscious life eg animals, .........Note: plants don't come under that category. How do I know that, I assumed it based on the complex calculations carried out by my brain which is given to me by nature/god.
 
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Yusuf

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If all plants die, we die too. No one is on a high horse. This is how nature is. Some species dominate others.

Law of the jungle.
 

Virendra

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"I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian" :D
Found this in some funny one liners.
 

Anonymous

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How will anyone prove if the animal felt more or less pain? This is pure BS, hypocritical even. Either you kill an animal or you don't. Then how it is killed should not matter.

There are benefits to humans to consume meat if the animal is killed by slitting the throat. The blood is drained off and it does not coagulate in the body of the dead animal.
Here

Various research papers on cattle slaughter collected by Compassion In World Farming mention that "after the throat is cut, large clots can form at the severed ends of the carotid arteries, leading to occlusion of the wound (or "ballooning" as it is known in the slaughtering trade). Nick Cohen wrote in the New Statesman, "Occlusions slow blood loss from the carotids and delay the decline in blood pressure that prevents the suffering brain from blacking out. In one group of calves, 62.5 per cent suffered from ballooning. Even if the slaughterman is a master of his craft and the cut to the neck is clean, blood is carried to the brain by vertebral arteries and it keeps cattle conscious of their pain."
Shechita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Once you've seen cows (just an example) turned upside down, scream while their throats are cut and then thrown on a bloody floor while they writhe around in their final moments you will hope you were never there.
 
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Anonymous

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You gotta like the smarts of the Dutch. No better way of getting rid troublesome north African Muslim communities and orthodox Jews by telling them there is no halal or kosher.

Since they are banging both Muslims and Jews - no one can accuse them of anything. Now all they need to do is ban the import of halal and kosher and you have closed the loophole.
The bill originates from a party whose central platform is animal rights. It has nothing to do with meat industry lobby or xenophobia.
 

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