DRDO 155mm Artillery Program

[Vijyes]

It seems L&T makes 155/52mm gun barrels -


http://www.larsentoubro.com/heavy-e...rvices/defence-aerospace/land-weapon-systems/
"L&T has been at the forefront in providing high-end technology solutions for land-based forces. L&T's weapon systems such as Multi-Barrel Rocket Launchers, 155mm/52 Cal artillery guns – both towed and self-propelled and missile launchers enable land-based forces to deliver the right kind of ammunition at the right time with precision."

L&T is in collaboration with Nexter as also South Korean Hanwa.

Key word here is "collaboration with Nexter". Nexter supplies the gun barrel. As I remember, It was in the news that Korea refused to give barrel Technology to India.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Key word here is "collaboration with Nexter". Nexter supplies the gun barrel. As I remember, It was in the news that Korea refused to give barrel Technology to India.

Can I get a source of that news.
Thankyou.

 

[Vijyes]

Can I get a source of that news.
Thankyou.

Since the issue is 3 year old, I am not able to quickly search for the news which says that Korea refused to give barrel TOT. But here is a news which states clearly that barrel is imported-

Indian Army’s massive new firepower addition tomorrow; K9 Vajra howitzer guns will meet requirements of 21st-century warfare


Three decade wait will be over when the K9 VAJRA-T 155mm/ 52 calibre tracked self-propelled howitzer will be inducted in the Indian Army arsenal on Friday. The gun has been developed and built by a private sector company by Larsen and Toubro (L&T) and South Korea’s Hanwha Tech Win (HTW).

According to the makers, these guns will meet the requirements of 21st century warfare by the Indian Army and will not only boost the firepower of strike formations in the plains, but in the desert too.

The guns that can be used in various missions include the deep fire support as it has a longer firing range; it is accurate and effective; is reliable fire support in all kinds of circumstances with its higher mobility and protection and qualitative superiority to overcome a numerical inferiority.

The K 9 which has been customised for the Indian Army is a variant of K9 Thunder which is the world’s best 155mm/52 Cal.SPH, and is in various armies including the South Korean army and has the ability to fire Indian as well as NATO standard ammunitions. The K9 Thunder development programme started in 1989 and the first gun entered service with the South Korean Army in 1999.

The private sector company had won the bid in May 2017 to deliver 100 howitzers at a cost of nearly Rs 4,500 crore under the government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative in 42 months. The guns have over 50 per cent indigenous components.

As has been reported earlier by FE Online, under the contract, L&T brought 10 K9 VAJRA-T from South Korea and the remaining 90 will start getting produced at L&T’s Strategic Systems Complex in Talegaon near Pune. This project has been fast tracked to ensure that Indian Army’s modernisation programme.

While this is the first ever defence programme between India and South Korea and the two countries have an Inter-Governmental MoU for cooperation in military shipbuilding.

More about Vajra K9

There were 13 Indian systems which were part of the prototype.

The VAJRA-T is a variant of the highly successful K9 Thunder modified for Indian conditions.

One thousand K9 Thunder guns have already been sold thus far.

Most critical parts: The barrel and breach – will be imported from South Korea

For towed guns in the future the barrel and breach can be made in India for larger orders

The indigenous systems on the gun will include the fire control system

Hull, turret, electronics, NBC systems, auto loaders, air conditioning and direct fire systems.

The VAJRA-T was declared the sole qualified gun after user evaluation trials at Pokhran.

The fire control system to cater to a huge mix of Indian ammunition

The deal is a “step higher than licensed production”

“It will be an Indian product made in an Indian factory

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Since the issue is 3 year old, I am not able to quickly search for the news which says that Korea refused to give barrel TOT. But here is a news which states clearly that barrel is imported-

Indian Army’s massive new firepower addition tomorrow; K9 Vajra howitzer guns will meet requirements of 21st-century warfare


Three decade wait will be over when the K9 VAJRA-T 155mm/ 52 calibre tracked self-propelled howitzer will be inducted in the Indian Army arsenal on Friday. The gun has been developed and built by a private sector company by Larsen and Toubro (L&T) and South Korea’s Hanwha Tech Win (HTW).

According to the makers, these guns will meet the requirements of 21st century warfare by the Indian Army and will not only boost the firepower of strike formations in the plains, but in the desert too.

The guns that can be used in various missions include the deep fire support as it has a longer firing range; it is accurate and effective; is reliable fire support in all kinds of circumstances with its higher mobility and protection and qualitative superiority to overcome a numerical inferiority.

The K 9 which has been customised for the Indian Army is a variant of K9 Thunder which is the world’s best 155mm/52 Cal.SPH, and is in various armies including the South Korean army and has the ability to fire Indian as well as NATO standard ammunitions. The K9 Thunder development programme started in 1989 and the first gun entered service with the South Korean Army in 1999.

The private sector company had won the bid in May 2017 to deliver 100 howitzers at a cost of nearly Rs 4,500 crore under the government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative in 42 months. The guns have over 50 per cent indigenous components.

As has been reported earlier by FE Online, under the contract, L&T brought 10 K9 VAJRA-T from South Korea and the remaining 90 will start getting produced at L&T’s Strategic Systems Complex in Talegaon near Pune. This project has been fast tracked to ensure that Indian Army’s modernisation programme.

While this is the first ever defence programme between India and South Korea and the two countries have an Inter-Governmental MoU for cooperation in military shipbuilding.

More about Vajra K9

There were 13 Indian systems which were part of the prototype.

The VAJRA-T is a variant of the highly successful K9 Thunder modified for Indian conditions.

One thousand K9 Thunder guns have already been sold thus far.

Most critical parts: The barrel and breach – will be imported from South Korea

For towed guns in the future the barrel and breach can be made in India for larger orders

The indigenous systems on the gun will include the fire control system

Hull, turret, electronics, NBC systems, auto loaders, air conditioning and direct fire systems.

The VAJRA-T was declared the sole qualified gun after user evaluation trials at Pokhran.

The fire control system to cater to a huge mix of Indian ammunition

The deal is a “step higher than licensed production”

“It will be an Indian product made in an Indian factory

Yeas Guns comes from Korea. I talked to one of my friend involved in Making Upper assembly involving guns. 70 such assemblies were made and delivered for further work. 3 K 10 Vajra just delivered before few days. Work is on in full swing.

 

[Bhadra]

Where does it say that L&T is making 'gun barrels'?? You just made that (wrong) assumption....like you always do!!
L&T does make several 'systems' that go into the towed/self-propelled artillery (ATAGS & K9)!

FYI...wrt K9 Vajra, both the gun barrel and breach block are imported from Korea!

You have not read the post carefully,
The headline says "it seems......"
However, L&T have a big and advanced metal and forging division which works for Nuclear Corporation of India. They are claiming to be capable of making a tank and how they make a tank without a barrel is not clear. Only sure shot experts like you can say.

In case on Nexter they get the ordinance from France.

 

[Bhadra]

http://www.larsentoubro.com/heavy-e...ospace/land-weapon-systems/artillery-systems/

L&T offers a range of artillery systems to answer the varying requirements of application and terrain. They are characterised by best-in-class firepower and superior manoeuvrability. L&T is committed to providing support to ensure 24x7 operational readiness.

155mm/ 52 Cal Tracked Self Propelled (SP) Gun
The K9 VAJRA-T 155mm/ 52 Cal. Tracked Self-Propelled Howitzer meets the requirements of 21st century warfare, which is based on the following missions: Deep fire support with its longer firing range; qualitative superiority to overcome a numerical inferiority with its higher rate of fire and accuracy and effective and reliable fire support in all kinds of circumstances with its higher mobility and protection.

The K9 VAJRA-T is a variant of K9 Thunder which is inarguably the world's best 155mm/52 Cal.SPH in terms of number of systems in active service. Currently, K9 Thunder is serving as one of the main conventional deterrent forces for a number of armies including the Korean Army. K9 Thunder has established its superiority through demonstrations and evaluation tests at various proving grounds in extreme weather conditions, jungles, barren deserts and severely cold areas. By demonstrating its ability to handle Indian as well as all NATO standard ammunitions, K9 VAJRA-T has proven its excellent conformability to any field artillery unit.

155mm/ 52 Cal Towed Gun System TRAJAN®
The 155 mm / 52 calibre Towed Gun System jointly developed by L&T and Nexter Systems, France for the Indian MoD is under User Evaluation by the Indian Army. L&T is responsible for development of the mobility system of the Gun, whereas Nexter provides the Ordnance System.

Our partnership is based on delivering value and effective solutions to the Indian Army. Apart from providing a proven Artillery Gun System, this consortium will open up new avenues in Indian and Global defence markets for both partners.

 

[Enquirer]

You have not read the post carefully,
The headline says "it seems......"
However, L&T have a big and advanced metal and forging division which works for Nuclear Corporation of India. They are claiming to be capable of making a tank and how they make a tank without a barrel is not clear. Only sure shot experts like you can say.

In case on Nexter they get the ordinance from France.

There're multiple types of forging. One can safely assume that L&T has sheet metal and rod forgings.
Barrel forging requires different equipment.
As I said earlier, it's not out of reach for a company like L&T to acquire barrel forging equipment (when required).

That said, a lot of people will claim that they 'can do' a lot of products; that doesn't mean they're building every component from scratch! ECIL & BEL are notorious to repackage foreign electronic equipment as their own!!!

 

[ram singh तोपची]

what is the total tube artillery systems requirement of India and how much have we archived the target pls explain with the systems

 

[garg_bharat]

what is the total tube artillery systems requirement of India and how much have we archived the target pls explain with the systems

3000 pieces out of which

Firm orders are:
114 Dhanush being filled by OFB
100 Vajra K9 SPG being filled by L&T
145 M777 ultralight, direct import from BAE USA

Orders being processed:
400 ATHOS 155/52 towed gun from Bharat Forge / ELBIT
150 ATAGS from Bharat Forge / Tata Advanced Systems

 

[Bhadra]

There're multiple types of forging. One can safely assume that L&T has sheet metal and rod forgings.
Barrel forging requires different equipment.
As I said earlier, it's not out of reach for a company like L&T to acquire barrel forging equipment (when required).

That said, a lot of people will claim that they 'can do' a lot of products; that doesn't mean they're building every component from scratch! ECIL & BEL are notorious to repackage foreign electronic equipment as their own!!!

https://www.livemint.com/news/india...-adds-to-india-s-firepower-1548145337004.html

How Hazira gun factory adds to India’s firepower

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday inaugurated Larsen & Toubro’s Armoured Systems Complex (ASC) at Hazira in Gujarat—the first private facility in India where the K9 Vajra-T howitzers will be made. Mint analyses what this means for India’s military capabilities.

What is the Armoured Systems Complex?

ASC is a state-of-the-art complex to manufacture and integrate advanced armoured platforms such as self-propelled howitzers, infantry combat vehicles, future-ready combat vehicles and battle tanks. A 40-acre facility at the 755-acre Hazira complex is building the K9 Vajra-T 155mm, 52-calibre self-propelled howitzer—L&T’s largest defence contract worth ₹4,500 crore awarded under Make in India. L&T Defence is to deliver 100 K9 Vajra-T guns, maintenance support package and transfer of technology to the defence ministry in 42 months. Ten systems have been delivered and the rest are expected within 22 months.

How does it contribute to Make in India?

The K9 Vajra-T systems are being delivered with 50% indigenous content (by value), which includes 75% indigenous work packages at the programme level. It involves local production of over 13,000 components per gun system through a supply chain of about 400 local tier 1 manufacturers, with over 100 small and medium enterprises. L&T has sought to indigenize the K9 Vajra-T, starting from building prototypes for user evaluation trials by indigenously developing 14 critical systems, including the fire control and ammunition handling systems. L&T also developed other systems for phase 1 production units.

What about technology?

L&T has a transfer of technology pact with South Korea’s Hanwha that includes training a team of engineers and integration specialists at Hanwha’s facilities. Hanwha is a maker of tracked self-propelled artillery systems.

How will K9 Vajra-T help the Indian Army?

The K9 Vajra-T gun meets the requirements of 21st century warfare, including deep fire support with its longer firing range, qualitative superiority to overcome a numerical inferiority with its higher rate of fire and accuracy, and effective and reliable fire support in all kinds of circumstances with its higher mobility and protection. The K9 Vajra-T is a variant of the K9 Thunder made by Hanhwa. Currently, the K9 Thunder serves in a number of armies, including the Korean army.

Is it different from other army tanks?

A tank-mounted artillery gun such as the K9 Vajra-T is different from a towed artillery gun pulled on the ground or transported by helicopters. The self-propelled howitzers are features of the Vajra. The gun weighs 50 tonnes and can fire 47kg bombs at a distance of 43-75km. The entire mobility is brought into Vajra’s artillery gun. It can turn around at zero radius and fire at long and short distances. Most other modern tanks find it tough to hit short-distance targets as they are not equipped to engage for line of sight.

 

[Enquirer]

https://www.livemint.com/news/india...-adds-to-india-s-firepower-1548145337004.html

How Hazira gun factory adds to India’s firepower

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday inaugurated Larsen & Toubro’s Armoured Systems Complex (ASC) at Hazira in Gujarat—the first private facility in India where the K9 Vajra-T howitzers will be made. Mint analyses what this means for India’s military capabilities.

What is the Armoured Systems Complex?

ASC is a state-of-the-art complex to manufacture and integrate advanced armoured platforms such as self-propelled howitzers, infantry combat vehicles, future-ready combat vehicles and battle tanks. A 40-acre facility at the 755-acre Hazira complex is building the K9 Vajra-T 155mm, 52-calibre self-propelled howitzer—L&T’s largest defence contract worth ₹4,500 crore awarded under Make in India. L&T Defence is to deliver 100 K9 Vajra-T guns, maintenance support package and transfer of technology to the defence ministry in 42 months. Ten systems have been delivered and the rest are expected within 22 months.

How does it contribute to Make in India?

The K9 Vajra-T systems are being delivered with 50% indigenous content (by value), which includes 75% indigenous work packages at the programme level. It involves local production of over 13,000 components per gun system through a supply chain of about 400 local tier 1 manufacturers, with over 100 small and medium enterprises. L&T has sought to indigenize the K9 Vajra-T, starting from building prototypes for user evaluation trials by indigenously developing 14 critical systems, including the fire control and ammunition handling systems. L&T also developed other systems for phase 1 production units.

What about technology?

L&T has a transfer of technology pact with South Korea’s Hanwha that includes training a team of engineers and integration specialists at Hanwha’s facilities. Hanwha is a maker of tracked self-propelled artillery systems.

How will K9 Vajra-T help the Indian Army?

The K9 Vajra-T gun meets the requirements of 21st century warfare, including deep fire support with its longer firing range, qualitative superiority to overcome a numerical inferiority with its higher rate of fire and accuracy, and effective and reliable fire support in all kinds of circumstances with its higher mobility and protection. The K9 Vajra-T is a variant of the K9 Thunder made by Hanhwa. Currently, the K9 Thunder serves in a number of armies, including the Korean army.

Is it different from other army tanks?

A tank-mounted artillery gun such as the K9 Vajra-T is different from a towed artillery gun pulled on the ground or transported by helicopters. The self-propelled howitzers are features of the Vajra. The gun weighs 50 tonnes and can fire 47kg bombs at a distance of 43-75km. The entire mobility is brought into Vajra’s artillery gun. It can turn around at zero radius and fire at long and short distances. Most other modern tanks find it tough to hit short-distance targets as they are not equipped to engage for line of sight.

You never get off your vanity bandwagon, do you?
L&T is building most of the damn howitzer (K9). Of course, there will be ToT!
Where in the article is it being mentioned that the gun barrel is also forged by L&T?? You make assumptions and make a fool of yourself!!

When I've time later I'll give you tips on how to google things to learn stuff (not useful when you only want to win needless arguments)!

For now, here's the key article:

https://www.financialexpress.com/de...requirements-of-21st-century-warfare/1376264/

"...Most critical parts: The barrel and breach – will be imported from South Korea
For towed guns in the future the barrel and breach can be made in India for larger orders
The indigenous systems on the gun will include the fire control system
Hull, turret, electronics, NBC systems, auto loaders, air conditioning and direct fire systems....."

 

[ram singh तोपची]

so now that we are replacing 105 mm field guns what will happen to them in my opinion they should be transferred to BSF and ITBP any thoughts people

 

[Bhadra]

You never get off your vanity bandwagon, do you?
L&T is building most of the damn howitzer (K9). Of course, there will be ToT!
Where in the article is it being mentioned that the gun barrel is also forged by L&T?? You make assumptions and make a fool of yourself!!

When I've time later I'll give you tips on how to google things to learn stuff (not useful when you only want to win needless arguments)!

For now, here's the key article:

https://www.financialexpress.com/de...requirements-of-21st-century-warfare/1376264/

"...Most critical parts: The barrel and breach – will be imported from South Korea
For towed guns in the future the barrel and breach can be made in India for larger orders
The indigenous systems on the gun will include the fire control system
Hull, turret, electronics, NBC systems, auto loaders, air conditioning and direct fire systems....."

For towed guns in the future the barrel and breach can be made in India for larger orders

At the end of it what are we trying to prove ? That firm like L&T can not make a barrel but OFB can ??
Is that it ?? So what ??

 

[Vijyes]

At the end of it what are we trying to prove ? That firm like L&T can not make a barrel but OFB can ??
Is that it ?? So what ??

The original question was about the list of companies that can make barrel. So, the idea that the barrels can be made in future is irrelevant. It is whether the battery is made today itself or not

 

[garg_bharat]

so now that we are replacing 105 mm field guns what will happen to them in my opinion they should be transferred to BSF and ITBP any thoughts people

A new 105mm towed and truck mounted gun is developed by Bharat Forge which may be inducted too.

Large number of existing 105mm guns may be moved to reserves. I don't think BSF needs a lot of large caliber tube artillery except in war scenario.

 

[Enquirer]

At the end of it what are we trying to prove ? That firm like L&T can not make a barrel but OFB can ??
Is that it ?? So what ??

What type of an idiot are you? The shameless type, I guess!!!

I quoted that line too to buttress what I've been saying in all posts - that L&T CAN acquire the barrel forging equipment if it chooses to. But right now, it's not!!

So, you swung from 'L&T is forging barrels' to 'L&T can forge in future'
That's a silent acceptance of incompetence

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

so now that we are replacing 105 mm field guns what will happen to them in my opinion they should be transferred to BSF and ITBP any thoughts people

I don't think BSF needs a lot of large caliber tube artillery except in war scenario.

It is strange to find the BSF in possession of artillery; it is stranger that only a few senior BSF officers know that they have an artillery wing.

The BSF’s artillery wing comprises seven regiments; two with 105mm Indian Field Guns (IFG), one with 75/24mm mountain guns, and four with the World War II vintage 25 pounder guns. Like the army’s artillery, a BSF artillery regiment is sub-divided into three batteries with six guns each. The BSF has a total of 140 guns as compared with the army’s artillery with over 5,000 guns divided into 250 field regiments.

Read More : BSF’s case for having its own artillery

 

[Okabe Rintarou]

https://www.livemint.com/news/india...-adds-to-india-s-firepower-1548145337004.html

How Hazira gun factory adds to India’s firepower

Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday inaugurated Larsen & Toubro’s Armoured Systems Complex (ASC) at Hazira in Gujarat—the first private facility in India where the K9 Vajra-T howitzers will be made. Mint analyses what this means for India’s military capabilities.

What is the Armoured Systems Complex?

ASC is a state-of-the-art complex to manufacture and integrate advanced armoured platforms such as self-propelled howitzers, infantry combat vehicles, future-ready combat vehicles and battle tanks. A 40-acre facility at the 755-acre Hazira complex is building the K9 Vajra-T 155mm, 52-calibre self-propelled howitzer—L&T’s largest defence contract worth ₹4,500 crore awarded under Make in India. L&T Defence is to deliver 100 K9 Vajra-T guns, maintenance support package and transfer of technology to the defence ministry in 42 months. Ten systems have been delivered and the rest are expected within 22 months.

How does it contribute to Make in India?

The K9 Vajra-T systems are being delivered with 50% indigenous content (by value), which includes 75% indigenous work packages at the programme level. It involves local production of over 13,000 components per gun system through a supply chain of about 400 local tier 1 manufacturers, with over 100 small and medium enterprises. L&T has sought to indigenize the K9 Vajra-T, starting from building prototypes for user evaluation trials by indigenously developing 14 critical systems, including the fire control and ammunition handling systems. L&T also developed other systems for phase 1 production units.

What about technology?

L&T has a transfer of technology pact with South Korea’s Hanwha that includes training a team of engineers and integration specialists at Hanwha’s facilities. Hanwha is a maker of tracked self-propelled artillery systems.

How will K9 Vajra-T help the Indian Army?

The K9 Vajra-T gun meets the requirements of 21st century warfare, including deep fire support with its longer firing range, qualitative superiority to overcome a numerical inferiority with its higher rate of fire and accuracy, and effective and reliable fire support in all kinds of circumstances with its higher mobility and protection. The K9 Vajra-T is a variant of the K9 Thunder made by Hanhwa. Currently, the K9 Thunder serves in a number of armies, including the Korean army.

Is it different from other army tanks?

A tank-mounted artillery gun such as the K9 Vajra-T is different from a towed artillery gun pulled on the ground or transported by helicopters. The self-propelled howitzers are features of the Vajra. The gun weighs 50 tonnes and can fire 47kg bombs at a distance of 43-75km. The entire mobility is brought into Vajra’s artillery gun. It can turn around at zero radius and fire at long and short distances. Most other modern tanks find it tough to hit short-distance targets as they are not equipped to engage for line of sight.

As pointed out by @Enquirer , L&T does not have the necessary Swagging and Autofrettage machinery required to produce a barrel. Up until now, only OFB had the required expertise and machines to make barrels. Now, Kalyani has acquired this capability from abroad. L&T does not yet have it.
Could they buy it? Yes. Do they have it NOW? NO.

Now please stop derailing the thread with strawman arguments. Its cringy to see an ex-officer who calls DRDO "DODO" embarrass himself time and again on multiple threads.

 

[Bhadra]

What type of an idiot are you? The shameless type, I guess!!!

I quoted that line too to buttress what I've been saying in all posts - that L&T CAN acquire the barrel forging equipment if it chooses to. But right now, it's not!!

So, you swung from 'L&T is forging barrels' to 'L&T can forge in future'
That's a silent acceptance of incompetence

Ok, tell me what should be done ?

Let us make artillery barrels in every steel factory to prove that Indians except OFB can make barrels.
Because as per you ToT means without guns.
And those like Bharat Forge who have been making guns should be under a banana tree for that elusive banana to fall . Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha .......
Poor Private Industry ... you guys want to kill them also !

 

[Bhadra]

As pointed out by @Enquirer , L&T does not have the necessary Swagging and Autofrettage machinery required to produce a barrel. Up until now, only OFB had the required expertise and machines to make barrels. Now, Kalyani has acquired this capability from abroad. L&T does not yet have it.
Could they buy it? Yes. Do they have it NOW? NO.

Now please stop derailing the thread with strawman arguments. Its cringy to see an ex-officer who calls DRDO "DODO" embarrass himself time and again on multiple threads.

That is sensible answer ....
Technologically, L&T have been making (smerch / Pinaka) rocket launcher tube (130mm and 124 mm). I wonder how they are manufacturing such tubes without that so called technology... That is also made by forging whether by drilling or hammering.

The point is that L&T has not got the technology to make a tank barrel and breech which involves different technology than a normal towed gun as it is required to be fitted into a turret

The quoted reference says that L&T will give the ToT to MoD after supply of 100 guns.
It also says that Towed guns they can make any time.

So the reference being cited as per ones goals and desires . A blind man shooting a deer.