DRDO 155mm Artillery Program

[Enquirer]

Guys............. ERCA program is all about increasing the range of the shell by implementing likes of RAMJET engine. It has nothing to do with the gun.

Here read this.

AUSA 2018: US Army Extended Range Cannon Artillery programme eyes 130 km range

https://www.janes.com/article/83718...-cannon-artillery-programme-eyes-130-km-range

By comparing M777 and ATAGS, Ajai Shukla has just shown that we was kinda high while writing this.

ECRA is a wide program that also includes enhancements to the M777 gun. They did add 6 feet to the barrel length.

But you're right that ATAGS and ECRA program cannot be compared as ECRA is an exploratory project and NOT a for-sale product!

 

[Chinmoy]

ECRA is a wide program that also includes enhancements to the M777 gun. They did add 6 feet to the barrel length.

But you're right that ATAGS and ECRA program cannot be compared as ECRA is an exploratory project and NOT a for-sale product!

Offcourse, you need to make some changes in the gun itself to accommodate a revised shell. But these design change in itself is not responsible for drastic range increment. But likes of Ajai Shukla writes whatever they dream of after a heavy overnight booze.

 

[scatterStorm]

Also Bharat forge was working to reduce the weight of atags and has promised to deliver lighter version for next prototype . Hopefully they might trim a tonne or two bringing atags weight to on par of similar class gun.

It would be a good idea to learn Titanium Forging from Koreans as US is in no condition to give us that. Question: When we got K series tracked artillery systems, have we got ToT of titanium forging from them or any ToT for that matter?

 

[mayfair]

Nope, Hanwa did not transfer the titanium forging tech or the barrel tech, which is not unexpected.

No choice but to develop it ourselves.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Nope, Hanwa did not transfer the titanium forging tech or the barrel tech, which is not unexpected.

No choice but to develop it ourselves.

(Edited) Then what was the meaning of spending billions of dollars on those koreans.
if what you are saying is true.....
just because something was offered instantaneously does not mean you spend billions of dollars for nothing.
I want to ask what (Edited) engineering technology we are getting from this howitzer deal.
Sometime Really I think individually we all are SMART but when we combine we become stupid.
NO the reason is not that.
Actually since the birth of this nation we never had a military genius at the helm of the most important office in this country.
Mod : Edited. Avoid over using upper case letters. Instead highlight in bold if you want to stress on a part of content.

 

[Chinmoy]

then what was the meaning of spending billions of dollars on those koreans.
if what you are saying is true.....
just because something was offered instantaneously does not mean you spend billions of dollars for nothing.
I want to ask what engineering technology we are getting from this howitzer deal.
Sometime really I think individually we all are smart but when we combine we become stupid.
No the reason is not that.
Actually since the birth of this nation we never had a military genius at the helm of the most important office in this country.

Do you even know what you are talking about?

We are getting a gun at the very first place.

Do you even know what parts are covered under any ToT?

Metallurgy is not covered under any ToT pact.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

Then what was the meaning of spending billions of dollars on those koreans.
if what you are saying is true.....
just because something was offered instantaneously does not mean you spend billions of dollars for nothing.
I want to ask what engineering technology we are getting from this howitzer deal.
Sometime really I think individually we all are smart but when we combine we become stupid.
No the reason is not that.
Actually since the birth of this nation we never had a military genius at the helm of the most important office in this country.

Baba Kalyani has made Titanium barrel for light artillery. India bought only 100 K9 howitzer as the intent was only to fast track the manufacturing of mobile howitzers by getting expertise and to develop private sector. Just for 100 items, Korea is not expected to give any major tot. Also, are you sure that K9 has Titanium barrel?

Metallurgy is not covered under any ToT pact.

How did India get Al31FP engine then? How did India get R25B engine in 1970s? Weren't these metallurgy?

 

[ezsasa]

Nope, Hanwa did not transfer the titanium forging tech or the barrel tech, which is not unexpected.

No choice but to develop it ourselves.

Bharat forge does titanium arty, isn’t it?

 

[patriots]

bhailog any news on dhanush ....after final user trial ...is it in production or not

 

[power_monger]

I do not think k9 has titanium parts.titanium is expensive and maintenance intensive.m777 ultra light howitzer has titanium used extensively to reduce weight.an there is no tot transferred either. However Bharat forge has almost completed ultra light howitzer using titanium forgings which weigh 4.7 tonne just 500 KGS more than m777 light gun. Kalyani had also made a steel equivalent which weigh around 6.9 tonne which can be disassembled transported and re assembled easily using existing transport system which carry m777 ultra light howitzer

 

[Chinmoy]

How did India get Al31FP engine then? How did India get R25B engine in 1970s? Weren't these metallurgy?

For start, try to get out of this false dream or thought that India does have ToT of any jet engine.

What HAL had was just the know how of screwdriving parts supplied to them for overhauling an engine for start. Later on with time and skill they acquired the know how of fabricating parts of it and make a engine on own based on the blueprint provided to them.
The simple matter of problem in creating a SCB for Kaveri had highlighted this point. Russians had not even gave the U-500 tech of 60's to India in name of ToT to do so.
Metallurgy is not just about forging or heat treating, it is a vast subject and it does implies academic study in form of alloy designing and testing to start with. Fabricating a Jet engine with supplied parts doesn't mean that we have ToT of all the parts used in the engine.

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

For start, try to get out of this false dream or thought that India does have ToT of any jet engine.

What HAL had was just the know how of screwdriving parts supplied to them for overhauling an engine for start. Later on with time and skill they acquired the know how of fabricating parts of it and make a engine on own based on the blueprint provided to them.
The simple matter of problem in creating a SCB for Kaveri had highlighted this point. Russians had not even gave the U-500 tech of 60's to India in name of ToT to do so.
Metallurgy is not just about forging or heat treating, it is a vast subject and it does implies academic study in form of alloy designing and testing to start with. Fabricating a Jet engine with supplied parts doesn't mean that we have ToT of all the parts used in the engine.

India can make Al31FP engine from scratch without imports. This much must be common knowledge by now. If you want to live in a cave, I can't do anything.

About Kaveri engine, it uses 2nd generation DS, not SC blades. This is because of rhenium requirement in 2nd and 3rd generation SCB. 2nd generation DS gives reasonably good performance while allowing for unrestricted mass production.

You need to update your knowledge a lot instead of picking an argument.

 

[Aaj ka hero]

Do you even know what you are talking about?

We are getting a gun at the very first place.

Do you even know what parts are covered under any ToT?

Metallurgy is not covered under any ToT pact.

Ok I don't know, but that's why I am asking
(Edited) What engineering technology are we getting from that deal?
"We are getting guns."
So you mean to say this is another (Edited) screw driver deal.

Mod: Edited. Avoid over using upper case letters. Highlight the part of content you want to stress upon.

 

[Defenceanalyst91]

India can make Al31FP engine from scratch without imports. This much must be common knowledge by now. If you want to live in a cave, I can't do anything.

No we cant even make a simple spare parts for Su30 without Russians. Why do you think India is begging Russians to deliver spare parts on time?
India to Purchase Spare Parts for Su-30 Fleet From Russia

https://sputniknews.com/military/20...nt-purchasing-fight-jet-spare-parts/#comments

 

[mayfair]

India can make Al31FP engine from scratch without imports. This much must be common knowledge by now. If you want to live in a cave, I can't do anything.

About Kaveri engine, it uses 2nd generation DS, not SC blades. This is because of rhenium requirement in 2nd and 3rd generation SCB. 2nd generation DS gives reasonably good performance while allowing for unrestricted mass production.

You need to update your knowledge a lot instead of picking an argument.

HAL currently makes AL31P engines from Roosi supplied tooling.

Can they make their own tooling from scratch to the same specifications independent of inputs from Roosis?

Can they using their own tooling, make AL31P engine same as using Roosi supplied tooling?

Most importantly, is HAL capable of designing and making their own jet engine FROM scratch?

 

[Advaidhya Tiwari]

HAL currently makes AL31P engines from Roosi supplied tooling.

Can they make their own tooling from scratch to the same specifications independent of inputs from Roosis?

Can they using their own tooling, make AL31P engine same as using Roosi supplied tooling?

Most importantly, is HAL capable of designing and making their own jet engine FROM scratch?

HAL is not designing agency. It is a manufacturing agency. India uses Russian toolings as it also gives OEM warranty for future upgrades. But many items like avionics, radar etc are made in India without toolings from Russia. India knows the exact process of making Al31FP and making clones of Russian tools is quite easy and can be done if and when needed

 

[Chinmoy]

India can make Al31FP engine from scratch without imports. This much must be common knowledge by now. If you want to live in a cave, I can't do anything.

About Kaveri engine, it uses 2nd generation DS, not SC blades. This is because of rhenium requirement in 2nd and 3rd generation SCB. 2nd generation DS gives reasonably good performance while allowing for unrestricted mass production.

You need to update your knowledge a lot instead of picking an argument.

Okk............ On your first point, could you kindly point towards any article where it is written that India manufactures it from scratch without imports?

Now coming to Kaveri, it uses DS blades and not SCB, agreed. But Al-31FP does make use of SCB. Now could you kindly enlighten me on the point of not using the so called ToT in preparing SCB for Kaveri. Coming to Rhenium point to which you go back again and again, lets take it into consideration too. But eventually India is contemplating of using it in AMCA with 100Kn+ thrust. Now to achieve this India would have to eventually move to SCB sooner or later.

Now Single Crystal could be of any super alloy. But to save myself from your Rhenium logic, let me give you one example.

Now could you kindly point me where is Rhenium (Re) in this alloy?

Manufacturing a part based on a provided blueprint under license doesn't mean you would have ToT for that. Even China does manufacture Al-31F for their J-10. But only recently they were able to create SCB for their WS-15 engine (If I have to believe them).

And please don't bring unrelated things like Aircraft engine in a thread which is discussing about artillery.

 

[Chinmoy]

Ok I don't know, but that's why I am asking
(Edited) What engineering technology are we getting from that deal?
"We are getting guns."
So you mean to say this is another (Edited) screw driver deal.

Mod: Edited. Avoid over using upper case letters. Highlight the part of content you want to stress upon.

First of all, its a JV in between a Pvt Indian company and Techwin. So ToT is not a priority here as it comes into play only when such contract happens between a OEM and a state run organization like OFB. If there had been any such ToT offer been made, it has been made to L&T and not Govt of India.

Second, this deal has been done to fast track the process of getting SPHG. India does have its own independent program for such and other Howitzer, but as always it would take time in development. So this is more of an emergency purchase for India.

Now its not just a screwdriver project for L&T.

Half of the parts for the guns will be built in India, despite the K-9 Vajra falling under the “Buy Global” procurement category, which allows over-the-counter sales of military hardware. The Business Standard explains:

L&T [Larsen & Toubro] plans to build 13 major sub-systems of the K-9 Vajra at its facilities in Pune, Talegaon, and Powai. This includes the fire control system, ammunition handling system, muzzle velocity radar, and the nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) system.

https://thediplomat.com/2015/10/indias-newest-gun-fast-and-deadly/

 

[Prashant12]

Trials on for 1st indigenous long range 155mm gun


Jaisalmer: India’s first high capacity indigenous long range 155mm gun and Dhanush’s supplement gun ATAGS (Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System) trials began on Saturday at Pokhran Field Firing Range in Jaisalmer district. These will go on for five days. The gun in its last trials in August 18 had fired up to 47.2 km distance.
The ATAGS is being developed by the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) on two parallel tracks – one prototype in partnership with Tata Power (Strategic Engineering Division) and another with Kaveri Group (Bharat Forge). The prototype that broke the record was the Tata Power (SED) gun.


Defence sources said the indigenous 155 MM/52 calibre ATAGS gun is being used at the firing range in Jaisalmer and targets at various distances which are approximately 60 kilometres away. The firing capacity is being checked on different parameters and these guns are performing as per the expectations. The ammunition is also being checked. To strengthen the firing capacity of the Army, the ambitious gun is being checked and in the coming days, many senior officers of DRDO and Army have come to Jaisalmer. The gun has world’s longest hitting capacity.

Source said DRDO is developing 155 mm / 52 Cal Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS) that will upgrade the 155 mm / 45 Cal Dhanush in the future. The ATAGS, India’s first indigenous 155mm/52-caliber towed artillery gun, will be a joint project of two private-sector corporations. This is a reversal of the usual practice of giving only state-owned companies these kinds of pricey orders.

Official said that a prototype with a new range of 50-60 kilometres, will also undergo trials, testing its abilities in different climates and terrain, along with range accuracy. The ATAGS is the world’s only gun with a six-round “automated magazine” that fires a six-round burst in just 30 seconds. Most other existing 155-millimetre, 52-calibre guns have three-round magazines, which must be reloaded after firing three rounds. Source said since most casualties are caused by artillery in the initial burst of fire, when enemy soldiers are caught in the open (and not after they dive into their trenches), a high “burst fire” capability is an important attribute. The ATAGS specifications also require it to fire 60 rounds in 60 minutes in the “sustained fire” mode.
Sources said after the gun successfully completes development and firing trials, the army is likely to procure at least 2,000 ATAGS.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...long-range-155mm-gun/articleshow/66407210.cms

 

[V_Force]

The ATAGS is being developed by the Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) on two parallel tracks – one prototype in partnership with Tata Power (Strategic Engineering Division) and another with Kaveri Group (Bharat Forge). The prototype that broke the record was the Tata Power (SED) gun.

AFAIK it is Kalyani Group of Baba Kalyani. Our headless media is so busy in Creating a fight between NAMO and pappu that they don't even care what they are publishing. Aayoooo pappu chal gya chappooo.