‘Don’t go back to those dirty Indians’: The marines’ case fuels fascist sentiments in Italy

[Razor]

I'm not trying to make him feel bad. I am merely telling the truth. Now, if that truth happens to be bad news for him, then I can't help it. It's purely co-incidental.

The term 'European nationalists' itself is a misnomer. There might be French, German, Greek, British nationalists groups working in their own country and they happen to be Europeans but using the term 'European nationalists' isn't rooted in factual accuracy, because it gives the impression that there is a group of people who are rallying in the name of pan-Europeanism. This is clearly not the case. Europeans are more divided than ever with Greece wanting to exit, Britan threatening to go its own way, Germany playing hardball, and France doing its own thing as a part of its 'strategic autonomy' doctrine. Clearly only a cynic would call them a pan-European force. The truth is that for pan-Europeanism to survive, regional nationalistic movements have to die down. I don't see that happening. On the contrary, like you said, nationalist groups are gaining momentum. There is a rising sense among nationalists of all flavors that they have been given a raw deal by being part of the EU. If EU as a cohesive unit has to survive, then member states have to give up some of the privileges that come with individualism. If individual nations pursue their own interests, then it will be the end of the EU. The British have intelligently tweak the security paradigm of EU such that they took all the benefits of belonging to a larger group as long as it was beneficial to them, now when the time has come to fulfill their end of commitments (take migrant quotas, for example, or dodging Naval commitments for anti-piracy operations), they are threatening to leave the EU. This has left the other nations in EU enraged. These nations are the ones taking the full onslaught of the African and M.E migration while Britain has no legal commitments despite all of them being part of the same union.

So the British have made it clear that if the EU has to survive, someone else has to 'take one for the team'. I highly doubt that the team would want to stay together if their interests are undermined so brazenly. This is why, Greece is willing to leave, Germany is willing to leave, and we all know what's going on with Scotland.

I disagree with your opinion about a pan-European solidarity emerging while the facts point to a diametrically opposite trend. Keep that pity, you might need it in the future.

You wrote a big post for nothing because it is called straw-man post; arguing against a point that I never made.

I used european as an umbrella term of convenience not as a pan- term, This is obvious from my post.

Even you seem to have sub-consciously understood this when you say: "The truth is that for pan-Europeanism to survive, regional nationalistic movements have to die down. I don't see that happening. On the contrary, like you said, nationalist groups are gaining momentum."

Also "keep that pity", I might need it in the future?
I never had pity for anything.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

You wrote a big post for nothing because it is called straw-man post; arguing against a point that I never made.

I used european as an umbrella term not as a pan- term, This is obvious from my post.

Even you seem to have sub-consciously understood this when you say: "The truth is that for pan-Europeanism to survive, regional nationalistic movements have to die down. I don't see that happening. On the contrary, like you said, nationalist groups are gaining momentum."

The essence of what both of us are saying is that the EU is breaking apart and giving way to regionalism. Glad we are on the same page. I had to write that big-ass post to counter your straw man of 'it's a racial thing not a religious one'. I used Muslim as an umbrella term for Libyans, Egyptians, and all sorts of Africans and M.E people migrating to Europe, who happen to have an overlapping muslim identity but are racially different than EU people. The core of what I am saying is that people are coming in to EU from outside, and some nations within the EU are more affected by it than other nations in the EU so this will lead to a breakup of EU. That means the EU is wreaking, contrary to what your post suggests that Europe is becoming consolidated to resist external infiltration. Not true. It is leading individual EU member nations to fight among themselves more than fighting with the intruders. They are becoming weaker, not stronger, due to migration issue. There's no convergence of opinions, there is divergence.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Sanskrit is old but not exactly the mother of euorpean languages;
Sanskrit is more related to Iranic languages than euro languages.

I know it isn't mother, but believe me, many words and grammer rules in Italian are massively influenced by Sanskrit.

Are you trying to make him feel bad or something?

I think you should reserve that pity for yourself. We can circle jerk here about how fucked the euros are, but reality is different.
With over 5 mil foreign migrants in india; india might be more deserving of your pity.


From what I see this migrant crisis will strengthen europe in an ethnic sense, as is already evident all over europe.
Don't think european nationalists are sleeping; they are hard at work on the streets (demonstrations) and on the PCs (propaganda videos.)

Also don't think this migrant crisis is merely a religious issue. The euros don't really have much of an affinity to religion; it doesn't come from the heart for these people.
(The leader of the rus called people from different parts of the world to decide which religion to follow. Yes, for euros religion is a political tool and nothing more. They would switch to islam if they thought it serves their interests better. Btw the rus king chose xtianity when he heard islam doesn't permit alcohol. )

In reality it is a racial issue.
It is because they are a different race that the migrants are being opposed by europeans; religion is only secondary issue.
Yeah, my post is probably not politically correct

Easterners may be from Far East or South Asia, whoever goes in west to live are just mentally disturbed morons who just wanna eat fruit of development before working for nation.
Anyway, that doesn't change the fact that how badly is western society screwed up. Their rape rates, crime rates, divorce rates and rate of girls of losing virginity before age is mind boggling for easterners.
They looted India for years and now calling us poor. Let India become developed country.
That's not far than one or two decades. Then, we will tell west what sort of animals they(westies) are.
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

 

[Razor]

The essence of what both of us are saying is that the EU is breaking apart and giving way to regionalism. Glad we are on the same page.

Giving way to regionalism, but national identities/ethno-linguistic identities strenghtening.

I had to write that big-ass post to counter your straw man of 'it's a racial thing not a religious one'. I used Muslim as an umbrella term for Libyans, Egyptians, and all sorts of Africans and M.E people migrating to Europe, who happen to have an overlapping muslim identity but are racially different than EU people.

It is not a straw-man, because it is part of the effort to understand the migrant crisis. There have been heavy migrations from yugoslavia w/in europe but that doesn't seem to have caused much problems, because those migrations were same race migrations.
While your earlier post was a straw man because it was arguing against a point I never made &/or implied (that europe is uniting.)

The core of what I am saying is that people are coming in to EU from outside, and some nations within the EU are more affected by it than other nations in the EU so this will lead to a breakup of EU. That means the EU is wreaking, contrary to what your post suggests that Europe is becoming consolidated to resist external infiltration. Not true. It is leading individual EU member nations to fight among themselves more than fighting with the intruders. They are becoming weaker, not stronger, due to migration issue. There's no convergence of opinions, there is divergence.

Again I never suggested "Europe is becoming consolidated. I am saying nationalities (ethnolinguitic identites) are becoming consolidated.
This is will spark interest in family life and ethno-racial purity/one-ness (in group, outgroup) in the Europe. This may lead to a rise in the european population which may lead to strengthening of europe.
As Hitler said, and I paraphrase, "Struggle is what makes man strong."
And it is exactly the lack of struggle and comfortable living that made euros lax and put their populations in decline and cultural identity in a wreck. This migrant crisis will reawaken them, and might strengthen europe. Interesting times ahead.
If this had not happened, the euros might simply have faded into insignificance.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

@Razor So what you're saying that regional individualism will unwittingly lead to a stronger Europe, eventually? It makes sense when you put it that way. Earlier I was stumped by the seeming contradiction of equating regionalism with pan-Europeanism. Now I understand what you were implying. My bad.

 

[Razor]

Easterners may be from Far East or South Asia, whoever goes in west to live are just mentally disturbed morons who just wanna eat fruit of development before working for nation.

Well, I did my MS in the US and worked on OPT for a year and returned to India because there is nothing quite like the warmth of my motherland.
So if you were trying to poke, it didn't work, coz I'm living in India and I'm using a proxy.

Anyway, that doesn't change the fact that how badly is western society screwed up. Their rape rates, crime rates, divorce rates and rate of girls of losing virginity before age is mind boggling for easterners.
They looted India for years and now calling us poor. Let India become developed country.
That's not far than one or two decades. Then, we will tell west what sort of animals they(westies) are.
:biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2::biggrin2:

That's all cool and I agree.
But I am saying this migrant crisis will help europe correct themselves. And that is bad in the long run.
---------------

@Nuvneet Kundu : It's cool. Thanks. Those were just my thoughts. I'm not sure if I'm right, only time will tell

 

[salute]

Well, I did my MS in the US and worked on OPT for a year and returned to India because there is nothing quite like the warmth of my motherland.
So if you were trying to poke, it didn't work, coz I'm living in India and I'm using a proxy.

just a question if you are living india why you got usa flag on your profile ???

 

[Razor]

just a question if you are living india why you got usa flag on your profile ???

As I said I'm using a proxy; because DFI isn't what it used to be 5 years back, and frankly I don't trust some of the new mods here.

 

[Indian Storm]

What kind of saliors Italy has? Sailors that kill civilians and the sailors that require months of medical leave.

 

[spikey360]

What kind of saliors Italy has? Sailors that kill civilians and the sailors that require months of medical leave.

The Sicilian kind.............................

 

[Indian Storm]

The Sicilian kind.............................

Please be a bit more articulate.

 

[Razor]

Please be a bit more articulate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Mafia

He is saying that Italian society is a reflection of the above group, and vice versa.

 

[Indian Storm]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Mafia

He is saying that Italian society is a reflection of the above group, and vice versa.

Italians are the comedians of Europe. Communists in morning. Socialist in evening and Capitalist during night.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Italians are the comedians of Europe. Communists in morning. Socialist in evening and Capitalist during night.

I thought that politics of India is funniest but Italians changed my opinion.
Italians are more amusing than any other country.

 

[salute]

Poor Edvige Maino... only to have amassed a few milions dollars (only the bare essentials for survive) to looting a billion of indians... so hated.

Ungrateful dirty Indians.

...................................................................

 

[salute]

As I said I'm using a proxy; because DFI isn't what it used to be 5 years back, and frankly I don't trust some of the new mods here.

uuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhh....... @mods.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

uuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhh....... @mods.

@salute @Razor @Bornubus could either of you enunciate what you view as a worst case scenario that could arise if our data on this forum is used against us? Apart from our views that are already public, what are the other types of data that the forum collects from its users and what way could they be misused? I can only think of IP address, and even its role is limited and vague. India uses a dynamic IP system so someone's IP doesn't necessarily give a direct home address, at least to the forum admin. I can be probed and traced by intel agencies, but then again, why do you think anyone on this forum might get into trouble? no one here is talking more shit than, say our politicians are speaking in the public. Is it justified, or is it just paranoia, good sirs?

The worst thing I might have said on this forum is perhaps recommending that India should use covert assets to kill Pakistanis. Can that get me in trouble? @Sakal Gharelu Ustad any inputs from your side sir? is there a precedent where someone got into trouble for posting something on the forum? What does it mean when someone says 'untrustworthy mods' does it mean like mods who are sympathizers of a particular political/religious groups taking our IP addresses and harassing us in real life? if that is so then I would proactively curtail my participation on the forum and only browse like a spectator.

 

[Razor]

@salute @Razor @Bornubus could either of you enunciate what you view as a worst case scenario that could arise if our data on this forum is used against us? Apart from our views that are already public, what are the other types of data that the forum collects from its users and what way could they be misused? I can only think of IP address, and even its role is limited and vague. India uses a dynamic IP system so someone's IP doesn't necessarily give a direct home address, at least to the forum admin. I can be probed and traced by intel agencies, but then again, why do you think anyone on this forum might get into trouble? no one here is talking more shit than, say our politicians are speaking in the public. Is it justified, or is it just paranoia, good sirs?

The worst thing I might have said on this forum is perhaps recommending that India should use covert assets to kill Pakistanis. Can that get me in trouble? @Sakal Gharelu Ustad any inputs from your side sir? is there a precedent where someone got into trouble for posting something on the forum? What does it mean when someone says 'untrustworthy mods' does it mean like mods who are sympathizers of a particular political/religious groups taking our IP addresses and harassing us in real life? if that is so then I would proactively curtail my participation on the forum and only browse like a spectator.

I'm not an expert on IT/Security. But I reckon they could know where we live, where we work etc.

I don't think covert, assets, pakis will get you into trouble, but some posters here might get into trouble with the law for various reasons ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_India )

By "Mods I do not trust", I meant mods I'm not familiar with and who just popped up one fine day. They probably are good people. But the fact that I'm not familiar with them, makes me uneasy.
And it is not just the mods. What if one of the mods have an account that has been compromised (w/o the knowledge of the mods) by a black hat. He (bl.ht,) could have access to our info.
I'm only 26, I don't want some shit to happen to me later in life or my family/friends affected etc., when I'm least expecting it &/or at my weak moments.
Granted, this is probably paranoia but better safe than sorry.

And more importantly I don't believe in free lunches. Why should I give my info to some person I don't know, that too for free. I mean, it just isn't ethical.

Those are my views.

---- End of OT.

 

[Nuvneet Kundu]

And more importantly I don't believe in free lunches. Why should I give my info to some person I don't know, that too for free. I mean, it just isn't ethical.

That's what worried me as well, therefore I asked, what information is being collected from us that we aren't giving them voluntarily? the IP?

 

[Razor]

That's what worried me as well, therefore I asked, what information is being collected from us that we aren't giving them voluntarily? the IP?

Not an expert but....
IP for sure. Mac ID? (unique to each device) Maybe.
They obviously know our browsing patterns (targeted ads)?
Cookies can be made to do all sorts of funny stuff?
Again it's better to ask experts like @Bangalorean but I would still be cautious.

If Admins allow users to set one of the flags then that would be cool.