Don't Buy Your Aircraft Carrier from Russia

ladder

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Also, in the past,

Jawaharlal Nehru pleaded for US help against China in 1962 - The Times of India

Apart from it having the potential of embarrassing the Congress party, the disclosure has also been described by foreign policy experts, including former foreign secretary Kapil Sibal and former diplomat G Parthasarathy, as a clear case of US letting India down badly. "What has come out is factually correct. These facts came out after the event too but the important thing is that only after we got nothing from the US did arms supplies from the Soviet Union to India commence," Parthasarathy said.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Don`t troll ..

Easier said than done. If we have to wait for Indian defence companies to absorb tech and build something that suits our needs then Zaid Hamid would be playing Radio Pakistan :)
 

JBH22

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Don`t troll ..
Let's see Cochin Shipyard have incurred both time and cost overruns in the indigenous aircraft carrier program

Why be in self denial mode. In addition we screwed up in this Viki contract and we play victim card that Russians fleece us. Then let me ask why Russkies did not do same with Chinese
 

Kunal Biswas

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September 17, 2014 09:17 IST



With the hull fabrication work of the indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant nearing completion by the year-end, the hull shop of CSL will be without work in a few months. While outfitting and shafting have gathered momentum on Vikrant, the carrier is gearing up for its launch from the building bay by the end of the year, indicate sources.

"The carrier only has about 1,200 tonnes of steel left to go on the structure. Right now, it has a tonnage of about 24,000."
Source : Cochin Shipyard stares at a lean order book - The Hindu

Yes we Indians are more than capable making our own ..

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When someone says it's free, then run other way: Official

After all the Handshakes , Pats and speeches at the handing over ceremony of INS Vikramaditya aka Admiral Gorshkov , it might seems that Project has deepened Military cooperation between Russia and India But in actual it has might have left a bad taste for Indians Particularly Indian Navy . And further cooperation of this magnitude might only remain in papers.

Naval Official who spoke[ to idrw.org, said that Indian Navy has definitely has learned some lessons on purchase of old used Ships and also not believe completely on part of seller . Indian Navy in past has acquired two used Aircraft Carriers from Royal British Navy and transaction and even Repairs and upgrades have been smooth but when it comes with purchase of old Soviet Aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov Indian Navy learned the hard way on how to deploy experienced crew for survey and Inspection of older ships and how to check claims versus facts.

Russians blame Intensive Reworking which was carried out the on the deck and Changes in Indian Navy requirements but contrary to Russ ian claims naval official claims that Russians had assembled crew for the Project who had little or no experience working on a ship of that magnitude and many of the ships systems which on paper didn't require replacement or repairs were found non-working.

Indian Navy knew exactly what it wanted from the Aircraft carrier and Russians agreed to carry out the work for an agreed price, but it turned out to be a classic example how a contractor threatens to walk out of the Project if Prices were not revised, and Russians blackmailed and even threated to scrap the project if India not agreed to jack up the price.

Russians tried to justify the hefty price tag of the aircraft carrier which was supposed to be free, they have claimed repeatedly that Ship is almost new and not repaired but Naval official said that Ship might look new but comes minus 20 years of operational life compared to a new one and INS Vikramaditya might serve at best for next 30 years at most and next major upgrade for the ship will be up by end of this decade.

INS Vikramaditya is the biggest ship India has ever acquired from a foreign shipyard and will also biggest in its current fleet. Indian Navy is currently in process of freezing final design of its Second Aircraft carrier INS Vishal to be built locally in India which at 65,000-ton and with Catobar configuration will be biggest ship India has ever worked on and also be biggest in its fleet when inducted and it is likely that help of US shipyards will be sorted since they have active Catobar aircrafts carriers currently under constructions.
Source :
http://idrw.org/?p=29565
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...aditya-adm-gorshkov-aircraft-carrier-198.html

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If you have so much faith over something foreign then your own, Suggest you talk in their behalf then using ' We ' ..

If had a chance go and talk to these Russian in person by yourself Someday and you will know ..

1. Let's see Cochin Shipyard have incurred both time and cost overruns in the indigenous aircraft carrier program

2. Why be in self denial mode. In addition we screwed up in this Viki contract and we play victim card that Russians fleece us. Then let me ask why Russkies did not do same with Chinese
 

JBH22

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September 17, 2014 09:17 IST





Source : Cochin Shipyard stares at a lean order book - The Hindu

Yes we Indians are more than capable making our own ..

==================

When someone says it's free, then run other way: Official



Source :
http://idrw.org/?p=29565
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...aditya-adm-gorshkov-aircraft-carrier-198.html

===========
===========

If you have so much faith over something foreign then your own, Suggest you talk in their behalf then using ' We ' ..

If had a chance go and talk to these Russian in person by yourself Someday and you will know ..
Indian aircraft carrier: More costly, already delayed

Indian aircraft carrier: More costly, already delayed

The IAC, which is likely to be named INS Vikrant - after India's first and now decommissioned aircraft carrier - is delayed by at least five years and is expected to be with the Indian Navy only after 2018 as against the scheduled date of delivery of 2014, Defence Minister AK Antony had earlier told Parliament. Cochin: The Defence Ministry will soon move the Union Cabinet for an additional Rs. 2000 crore to meet the cost overrun for completing the first phase of Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) being constructed at the Cochin Shipyard - on India's western seaboard.
Hmm let's see 5 years delay and Rs 2000 crores cost overrun and we are still midway
Now as regards to Viki we got a bad or good deal, but atleast we got the damn carrier. India at that time did not have the pre-requisite expertise to do it at that time.
As regards to Russian bashing hardware its becoming ridiculous we are to be blamed if someone fleece us not the "stranger".
 

prohumanity

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Dude, the author is a founder and editor of Asia Security Watch, War is Boring and Japan Security Watch.

On top of it he writes in Medium, The Atlantic.com, Salon, The Japan Times, The Diplomat, The Daily Beast, The National Interest, Foreign Policy, The Week and US Naval Institute News.

And what is BS in the article of post #1, he just tried to show us a mirror.

None of this matters...what he is...what and where he publishes..etc....the most important question is who funds this author and for what agenda ? Do you know that all the above publications have the same agenda? Funding is the main hint about the author.
 

Compersion

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Also in the past : (agree with you and its undeniable that's what happen)

According to the State Department historian, 'When the fighting developed, the Nixon administration tilted toward Pakistan. The tilt involved the dispatch of the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise to the Bay of Bengal to try to intimidate the Indian government. It also involved encouraging China to make military moves to achieve the same end, and an assurance to China that if China menaced India and the Soviet Union moved against China in support of India, the United States would protect China from the Soviet Union. China chose not to menace India, and the crisis on the subcontinent ended without a confrontation between the United States and the Soviet Union.'
1971 War: How the US tried to corner India

(Theme of aircraft carriers)
 

Zebra

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None of this matters...what he is...what and where he publishes..etc....the most important question is who funds this author and for what agenda ? Do you know that all the above publications have the same agenda? Funding is the main hint about the author.
OK, so he is working on somebody's agenda and he is working on some kind of funding by someone.

Could be possible.

But the two different point of views are..... why he is doing these and what he is talking here.


May be, you care more about why he is doing these.

For me who ever he may be, but he is just telling us the truth. The fact.

What gone wrong in that deal that is what the topic here.
 

Zebra

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India got it at discounted price with some transfer of technology. West would not have given you either.

Tell me whether we would have got the equivalent of SU-30MKI and MIG-29K type hardware from the west at similar prices
The price tag of Russian stuff are not that lucrative at all. Specially after Putin came in power.

In past they offered low price but the currency conversion rate was ridiculous.

On top of it, the Russians used Indian tax payer money to upgrade few of their own products.

Are we counting that cost!
 

Bheeshma

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Vikad was a one time buy since there was no other comparable option available. Since Vikrant all IN carriers will be built in India.
 

JBH22

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The price tag of Russian stuff are not that lucrative at all. Specially after Putin came in power.

In past they offered low price but the currency conversion rate was ridiculous.

On top of it, the Russians used Indian tax payer money to upgrade few of their own products.

Are we counting that cost!
See what are the alternatives, Do we have a coherent defence policy.

Pending the perfect situation of self reliance in defence eventually comes we still need weapons for our defence
 

Zebra

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See what are the alternatives, Do we have a coherent defence policy.

Pending the perfect situation of self reliance in defence eventually comes we still need weapons for our defence
As I said it earlier, those things which are already in tender process and are yet to decide like MRCA and NMRH, cancel the tender.

Its already too late and all messed up by previous govt anyway.

Better get them via govt to govt FMS deals.

OR

For NMRH, get it through Tata. For MRCA Boeing F/A-18 E/F/G are there. Modi is going to US, it will be best time.

MoD should talk with the French about submarine drama. Inform the French and give them two options....

1)supply all the remaining stuff at once that too on the date which they can decide in talks

2)otherwise MoD gonna cancel the deal.

If French choose the 1st option miss that date, then cancel that submarine deal without any further talks.

This world is not that small and it is not that big also, that we can't find others who can help us to figure out, how we can utilize those hulls for our submarines.

This govt must take firm stand on it, if the defence minister shy or scare then appoint some one else who can do these.

Otherwise there won't be any difference in between previous govt and this govt.
 

JBH22

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As I said it earlier, those things which are already in tender process and are yet to decide like MRCA and NMRH, cancel the tender.

Its already too late and all messed up by previous govt anyway.

Better get them via govt to govt FMS deals.

OR

For NMRH, get it through Tata. For MRCA Boeing F/A-18 E/F/G are there. Modi is going to US, it will be best time.

MoD should talk with the French about submarine drama. Inform the French and give them two options....

1)supply all the remaining stuff at once that too on the date which they can decide in talks

2)otherwise MoD gonna cancel the deal.

If French choose the 1st option miss that date, then cancel that submarine deal without any further talks.

This world is not that small and it is not that big also, that we can't find others who can help us to figure out, how we can utilize those hulls for our submarines.

This govt must take firm stand on it, if the defence minister shy or scare then appoint some one else who can do these.

Otherwise there won't be any difference in between previous govt and this govt.
There is no coherent defence policy that's why Modi or not there would still be trouble for national security and self reliance.

As rightly pointed out by Arun Shourie the standing committee on defence matters was headed by Raj Babbar his predecessor was some "Godman". So we are alone responsible for such kinda of sh1t.

Don't blame Russians or others.
 

Zebra

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There is no coherent defence policy that's why Modi or not there would still be trouble for national security and self reliance.

As rightly pointed out by Arun Shourie the standing committee on defence matters was headed by Raj Babbar his predecessor was some "Godman". So we are alone responsible for such kinda of sh1t.

Don't blame Russians or others.
May be this is the time keep defence portfolio with PM.
 

Kunal Biswas

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In past perhaps yes, But now it must stop as much as possible ..

Pending the perfect situation of self reliance in defence eventually comes we still need weapons for our defence
 

arnabmit

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Hmmm... so he craps at multiple places, big deal! There are many bloated crappers in media.

Dude, the author is a founder and editor of Asia Security Watch, War is Boring and Japan Security Watch.

On top of it he writes in Medium, The Atlantic.com, Salon, The Japan Times, The Diplomat, The Daily Beast, The National Interest, Foreign Policy, The Week and US Naval Institute News.

And what is BS in the article of post #1, he just tried to show us a mirror.

Is that wrong?
 

prohumanity

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Casper, truth is that no other nation was willing to sell an aircraft carrier to India at ANY PRICE.
 

p2prada

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Casper, truth is that no other nation was willing to sell an aircraft carrier to India at ANY PRICE.
The Italians were. But that would have come at two or three times the price of Gorky. Not to mention sanction prone.
 

prohumanity

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Whats the use of buying a gun from someone who will not let you use when you need to use it to defend yourself? I believe price is less important than the dependability in matters of defense.
 

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