Don't buy the hype: Russia's military is much weaker than Putin wants us to think

[shade]

Do you really think a run down 1980 Carrier would become a frontline ship for 600M USD?? There was a mistake on both sides in estimating work on the ship. India paid because it saw benefit in the deal.

The risk to Vik is not its vintage, but supportability as Russia is not a big Carrier operator.

INS Vikrant may have better supportability, but my confidence in a PSU building a very long lasting ship is low.

A ship is basically a machine, which suffers from significant wear and tear during its life.

A good amount of ships in IN are indigenous,Maintainance isnt an issue,the fact that Vikrant may never be completed is

 

[Jay Patel]

WTF why are you still in US! come back to your mother land India.[emoji14]
IF colonial masters are bad what about muzzie rulers who destroyed temples,universities,raped &conversions. In violence scale imperials score 30......Communists score 60.... muzzies score 100/100.

You are an idiot. I would not accept any Western or arab views that you so seem to be loving. I am not in US by the way.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Jay Patel]

No, you are selling India's interest for ******bama/Jewmerica.

Haha. That's funny and true at the same time.

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[garg_bharat]

A good amount of ships in IN are indigenous,Maintainance isnt an issue,the fact that Vikrant may never be completed is

There is a difference in "indigenous" and "build locally". India still imports large amount of machinery.
Indian engineering industry has learnt a lot but there is a lot more to learn.
India remains dependent on imports in defense.

 

[SajeevJino]

You are an idiot. I would not accept any Western or arab views that you so seem to be loving. I am not in US by the way.

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your country flag based on your IP address and that shows the US flag ..

 

[Bahamut]

your country flag based on your IP address and that shows the US flag ..

He is using a VPN network ,most probably droid VPN .He is in India but uses a server in USA to access the net .

 

[Jay Patel]

your country flag based on your IP address and that shows the US flag ..

And the flag in your avatar leads me to believe you are a Zionist fool.

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[garg_bharat]

The issue is not buying from USA or Israel. I never said that.

The first preference should be local industry. No difference should be made between public and private for government contracts if a company is Indian.

Indian companies should be allowed to buy technology (one time expense) rather than having to tie up with foreign company and paying royalty on each unit.

If tech cannot be bought, then foreign company should be encouraged to set up a factory in India, so that logistics is simplified for procurement of additional units and spares.

The outright foreign purchases should be limited to only a very few cases.

And I am totally against this Russia vs America business. Russians have been long term friends, and better we behave like friends.

 

[garg_bharat]

Very strong Western lobbies have developed in India to promote Western weapons for Indian government contracts. These people are using shady means to influence, resulting in price-rigging and poor terms.

 

[Bahamut]

@Dark Sorrow Here is some info from wiki on Vikramaditya
The official expected life span of the ship is 40 years, and is unlikely to require any major repair work for at least a decade.[59][69] Over 70% of the ship and her equipment is new and the remainder has been refurbished.[57]Sevmash Shipyard, which upgraded the carrier, will provide warranty servicing including maintenance for the next 20 years.[70]
The Comptroller and Auditor General of India (CAG) criticised the fact that Vikramadityawould be a second-hand warship with a limited life-span, which would be 60% costlier than a new one, and there was a risk of further delay in its delivery.[37] The Indian Navy Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Sureesh Mehtadefended the price for the warship saying:

"I can't comment on the CAG. But you all are defence analysts, can you get me an aircraft carrier for less than USD 2 billion? If you can, I am going to sign a cheque right now".

The statement from the Chief of Naval Staff possibly indicates that the final deal could be in excess of US$2 billion. When asked about CAG's finding that the navy had not done its risk analysis before going in for the ship, he said,

"I can ensure you that there is no such thing. There is no question, we have been looking at the ship since the late 90s."[38]

 

[Dark Sorrow]

You are already a chamcha of HAMerican interests, that would disqualify you as a Putin chamcha automatically. In any case you view anyone not aligned to your world view as Putin chamcha and contrary to India's interest (of which you are so mindful, while supporting deals worth billions for useless knocked down inferior hardware from USA)

This is the flawed logic with Putin cheerleaders.
Not being a Russian/Putin chamcha does not mean that you are American chamcha.
The world is not black and white anymore.
When did I supported US or any deals from US???
This is typical of you if some one not agrees with your version (Russian/Putin's) he/she is an American agent.

 

[garg_bharat]

Nobody here is an American or Russian Chamcha. The agents don't operate on this message board. The agents cultivate friendships with military officers and place favorable news in mass media.

I appreciate that 98% posters here come due to genuine interest.

However posters get influenced by blogs/news and perception.

India has very comprehensive oversight in military purchases. If Russian arms are being bought, that is due to appropriateness for their intended use and price competitiveness.

 

[Dark Sorrow]

Do you really think a run down 1980 Carrier would become a frontline ship for 600M USD?? There was a mistake on both sides in estimating work on the ship. India paid because it saw benefit in the deal.

The risk to Vik is not its vintage, but supportability as Russia is not a big Carrier operator.

INS Vikrant may have better supportability, but my confidence in a PSU building a very long lasting ship is low.

A ship is basically a machine, which suffers from significant wear and tear during its life.

Finally someone agreed that in INS Vikramadtya Russian made mistake in price estimate and work to be done. Till now people are just claiming its India's mistake.
One must remember its the job of the supplier to undertake proper analysis and give an estimate. When a supplier gives you an estimate you don't say this amount looks less take x + y amount.
The question is not about money, time or technology.
Its about how Russians have been treating us lately.
INS Vikramadatya
T-90
FGFA

 

[A chauhan]

Is India going the USSR dissolution way because of the Leftists FoE supporters (Idiots/Islamists/Naxals) of India ?

 

[garg_bharat]

Finally someone agreed that in INS Vikramadtya Russian made mistake in price estimate and work to be done. Till now people are just claiming its India's mistake.
One must remember its the job of the supplier to undertake proper analysis and give an estimate. When a supplier gives you an estimate you don't say this amount looks less take x + y amount.
The question is not about money, time or technology.
Its about how Russians have been treating us lately.
INS Vikramadatya
T-90
FGFA

See when you went to Russia, you knew what is in store.
Russia was recovering from catastrophic events of 90s which split the country into several pieces and destroyed its economy. You knew what would be the maturity of its industries in such conditions.

If I go to a second-hand goods store, I know the risks of buying such goods.

My point is that Russians made a mistake, but buyer can not be absolved either. If the case was such simple open and shut, then India would have walked away.

T-90 was bought because DRDO/OFB failed in Arjun. I know some people on this board are such huge supporters of Arjun, but reality is it was a failed project till only a few years back. Its engine is imported. Its track and suspension is imported. DRDO/OFB failed to develop major components. So the tank turned out be very expensive. When T-90 was available for 2M per piece, Army jumped at the opportunity.

What about FGFA? Government is yet to sign a contract.

 

[garg_bharat]

Is India going the USSR dissolution way because of the Leftists FoE supporters (Idiots/Islamists/Naxals) of India ?

Russia is not USSR. Even USSR never supported Naxals or Indian communists.
There are some suspicions on China. But nothing on Russia.